[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

4 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

You can still receive enormous spiritual blessings and benefits from being baptised and keeping your baptismal covenants without going to the temple - it's just that you won't receive all the possible blessings on offer. Why don't you just take it in baby steps - one step at a time - and don't take the temple step until you feel you are ready. It seems a bit odd to be guided by the idea that you're not going to take one step, no matter how beneficial that one step may be, until you can see what that last step will be, which you don't have to take unless you want to and until you feel you are ready. If you are baptised and choose not to go to the temple, that is entirely your decision, but it may well be that after you have been baptised for a while, you really will want to go to the temple. 

Thats the sticking point for me though, I don't see the point of being baptised without planning to go to the temple and until I know what happens in the temple I can't in all good conscious be baptised.

Again this is how I feel, this is my opinion, I understand not everyone will feel like me but this is how I feel and this is what I am prompted to do by a lot of prayer and I'm not going to ignore what God is telling me.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

Just now, Vort said:

@VelvetShadow, we are not offended, so don't worry about that. But at the same time, we are trying to give you useful input and insights. If you just dismissively wave off everything we say, we can't do you much good. 

I feel like my opinion is being waved off as something I shouldn't worry about, when I worry greatly about it, this is my eternal soul we are talking about, this is a big deal to me.  

And I was just expressing my opinion, I wasn't looking for input or insights from anyone, I was just expressing my opinion.  It would be nice if that could just be acknowledged like @MormonGator did, he was very supportive and just acknowledged that my feelings were valid and understandable.  

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

2 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Ok, for the sake of this conversation let's ignore the fact that they don't make sacred things public, just as many organizations do.  If you believe the Book of Mormon is true, then you know Joseph Smith was the Prophet, obviously.  Correct?   

I think the Book of Mormon is true, but I can not ignore the fact that the temple ceremonies are not revealed to me before being baptised.

There are a lot of groups that believe in the book of mormon

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Right, and it's not an insult to the church or how they teach-it's just how a convert feels. I get it, they can't go into detail, I respect that. But for a convert who was not raised in the church from birth-it can seem like the church is hiding something. Again, for the second time-not an insult, just how it might seem to some converts. Not all. 

That is exactly how I feel, and I mean no offence at all but it is how I feel, I don't feel comfortable joining a church that I feel is hiding things from me

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

3 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Do you believe the Book of Mormon is true?  Do you believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of the Christ?

The first one yes, the second one I am not so sure, and it doesn't help that they keep the most important ceremonies a secret from me. I can't join a church that isn't upfront about all their beliefs/ceremonies.  I don't like that I feel like they are hiding things from me.

Again this is my opinion, this is my view on it and I have nothing against those who see it differently.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

I mean absolutely no offence to anyone by expressing my opinion on this, but it is my opinion and I'm sure the opinion of many others as well.  Each to their own

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Again, this is not so. The temple endowment is well-explained in numerous places. Buy or borrow a copy of Elder Boyd K. Packer's book The Holy Temple. It will provide you with a good grounding in covenants and a general explanation of what covenants one makes in the temple.

If you want specific wording and such, then go to the temple. Some things are not exposed outside the appropriate context. You may learn all about sex before you marry, but don't expect to see your wife in the nude until you've married her.

I don't agree, I have searched high and low for real factual information on what happens in the temple and there is no information out there that tells you what really happens, only vague information nothing concrete that actually explains it properly.  I am not going to join a church with a 'general explanation' of what happens in the temple, the temple is so important so I need to know what exactly happens there before joining.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

I mean absolutely no offence to anyone by expressing my opinion on this, but it is my opinion and I'm sure the opinion of many others as well.  Each to their own

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

1 minute ago, askandanswer said:

Well I guess a degree of faith and trust is required. That shouldn't be too surprising in a relgious organisation, where faith should be the foundation of the entire beleif structure. 

I have faith in God, I have faith in Jesus, but asking me to have faith in a church that won't tell me whats going to happen a year after I join - thats something completely different 

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

Just now, Vort said:

This is simply not so. Every covenant you make in the endowment is carefully and fully explained to you before you agree to it.

But it is not explained before I am baptised and that is my issue.  And from what I've heard not in temple prep classes either (just that its very symbolic), only at the temple itself.  So you would have to walk out of the temple just before the ceremony and that would be a lot of pressure on a person.  I don't agree with it, thats just how I see it, everyone is different, this is just how I view it and in all honesty it is the main thing stopping me from joining the church.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

That's very true.  It was tough for me, also. I was just confused when you said it didn't matter if you "know".  To me, it absolutely mattered.   Once I knew the Book of Mormon was true and the Church was Christ's Church, the million things I didn't know didn't matter because I trust Christ.  

Its different for me, I have always trusted Christ, that is not an issue, but to trust a church enough to join when I know there are things they will not reveal to me until I have been a member for at least a year, that really does matter.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Agree 100%. I wish the temple prep classes were more descriptive of what happens in the temple. Yes, I understand it's sacred. But it would have been nice to know before going through it for my endowment/sealing. 

Thank you, I really appreciate you saying this

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

3 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I can see both sides.  If you know, then why wouldn't you?   What differenc do Temple ordinances make?

Depending on what they are it could make all the difference in the world.  The point is you really don't know what you are signing up for because the temple ordinances are kept so secret

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

The requirements of baptism is simple - Do you believe in God, Do you believe in Jesus Christ, Do you believe in the Plan of Salvation as revealed in the restored gospel, Do you believe that the LDS Church and its Prophets are Christ's representative on earth, do you believe that the Book of Mormon is true.

The answers to those questions does not lie on academic study. 

 

I was not aware of your issues with the OP,  but to speak for myself, and with the greatest respect to you and all LDS people, I don't agree with the above requirements for baptism.  I think its more complicated than that.  You can feel and know all you like but that doesn't mean you know exactly what you are signing up for when you join the church.  

For example, I have asked what happens in the temple a few times and I get no specific answers, only 'you find out when you get there but its about making covenants with God, and its where you get your garments', but they will give me no details of the ceremonies or what exactly  is said/done in the temple. To me thats a problem, until I know what happens in there I can't say with all honesty that I know what I'm getting into if I join.  

What if I don't agree with what happens in the temple? It will be too late for me because I would have already joined and been a member for at least a year, and then I might find out that what happens in the temple is not acceptable to me at all.  It's a very big problem for me and I'm sure others as well.

[Help. I don’t know what to think or what to do!]

4 hours ago, Mfam2018 said:

Last night my husband and I were up talking late. He suddenly confessed to me that he has been hurting my 5 month old daughter. He said it has happened maybe 10 or 11 times over the past five months, and that it was things like pinching, smacking/slapping, etc. Nothing sexual or shaking or anything. He said the last time he did it was a 3 or so weeks ago. 

He told me he was telling me now because he couldn’t live with himself anymore and was dying because of the guilt and shame. 

He told me he mostly does it to get a rise out of her because he likes to bring her down from her crying. 

I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO THINK OR DO. 

We have been married for almost two years (in the temple). He has never once been violent towards me in any way shape or form. 

I just feel sick over this. I don’t know what to do, don’t know who to talk to about it. The thought that he could have even laid a finger on my daughter makes me so upset I feel like the room is spinning. I told him he needed to go see the bishop and that we needed to look into counseling for him. 

I told him I love him and want to forgive but I don’t even know where to start. And I’m not even the victim! I love him so much, but I don’t know how to get over this. 

Please help me. Do I work towards forgiveness? Am I crazy to try and save this? Or do I end everything? I’m so scared and feel so alone. I don’t know the next step.

Get your baby away from this man, the most important thing is the wellbeing of this innocent child, everything else has to come second.

[what authority does the church have to disipline a member?]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:53 AM, anatess2 said:

There's a reason we call people who are interested in converting into the LDS Church an INVESTIGATOR.  They are supposed to INVESTIGATE what they're signing up for.  Hopefully, you don't do this with any of your other contracts... "I'm applying for this job", "Okay, you're hired."... after a day, "You didn't tell me I have to stand for 8 hours!", after a week... "You didn't tell me I have to work for 2 weeks first before I get paid!"  Sorry, but, it is YOUR JOB to find out what you're getting into.

 

I am an investigator and in defence of the OP I have been asked repeatedly by very nice, well meaning missionaries to be baptised, in what I believe is too short a time to agree to commit my life to a belief system that I don't know enough about yet.  When I expressed this to the missionaries they say 'as long as you know the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God then you know enough to join".

I found this strange (and to be completely honest a bit unethical) so I asked the bishop at my local ward about it and he said it is normal practice and if I believe in the Book of Mormon and Jospeh Smith then I should be baptised ASAP.

While I will not be joining the church anytime soon, (I am the kind of person who wants to know everything before committing to something), I can completely understand how others do join very quickly, the missionaries DO ask you to join after only a couple of lessons.  

If the OP did in fact follow and trust in the missionaries to join the church after only a few weeks of investigating, it is completely understandable that they would not know enough about the church to know exactly what they are agreeing to join.  If this is the case you can't really put all the blame and responsibility on the OP when this is the standard practice of the church.

[receiving a fulness of joy]

On 8/9/2018 at 2:46 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Jesus did not become a god. He is the God Jehovah, creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He came to Earth to suffer for the sins of the fallen universe and set the example for us to return to our Heavenly home.

Latter-Day Saints do not believe in the Nicaean Creed, created under duress so that the Romans could unify Christianity, by force. The creed is gibberish that contradicts itself throughout. God sitting on his own right hand etc. I could say more but really it would be a waste of everyone's time and I am not one to write twenty paragraph diatribes to suite my own vanity.

The Nicaean Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I had no idea that mormons dont believe in the Nicene Creed

[Freemasonry (edited)]

13 hours ago, MormonGator said:

LG is in a girls group that is associated with Masons, called Rainbow. She is not in Eastern Star, nor am I a Mason, but we know a ton of them. 

Very cool, I thought the masons was a total boys club, glad to see they support ladies groups

[Church stance on Brigham Young]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:21 AM, Fether said:

This is always such a strange topic for me to talk about, but there seems to be carrying opinions on the topic.

I recently purchased a “discourses of Brigham Young” book. While traveling home I was browsing through it and every single sentence seems to be packed with some profound binof doctrine. At one point he was talking about how miraculous healings in Christ’s time we’re just as common as they are today. That Christ did not heal every person he came across.

Now here is the discussion I have a hard time with. Many people claim that we can’t take all of Brigham Young’s words as divine, that often times he was not speak as a prophet, but as a man. 

What has officially been said about Brigham Young and the nature of prophets that may assist in this question? I’m not so much interested in opinions but rather statements made by prophets or apostles dealing with the topic.

I thought he was the second prophet of the mormon church? Aren't we supposed to believe what he said, he was a prophet, just like Jospeh Smith?

Im new to this so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought when the prophet speaks,  you listen

[receiving a fulness of joy]

14 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

“Our father Adam—that is our earthly father—the progenitor of the human race of man, stands at the head being ‘Michael the Archangel, the Ancient of Days,’ and…was not fashioned from earth like an adobe but begotten by his Father in Heaven.” — President Joseph F. Smith, President Anthon H. Lund, and President Charles W. Penrose.

Jesus however was a god before he was born upon the earth. 

Thanks.  So does that mean Jesus is in the celestial kingdom heaven with God or is Jesus somewhere else because he is a God too?  Especially if he was God before he was born on earth.

Im a bit confused as to where Jesus went in mormon theology, I thought if you achieved exhalation to Godhood you got to be a God of your own universe, not share this one with our God, because if that's right then there is more than one God in Celestial heaven and I thought there was only one God?

 I didn't think there could be two Gods in the Celestial heaven of this universe?

I thought mormons weren't supposed to pray to Jesus because he's not God, he's the son of God.  But if he achieved exaltation (and he had to of he IS Jesus) and he is in the Celestial heaven, there there is two Gods there, and if Jesus is a God now, then why can't mormons pray to him?

My brain is a crazy place I know, but all the same, these are real questions that are honestly very confusing and I'd really appreciate all your input.

[receiving a fulness of joy]

13 hours ago, theplains said:

Various religions teach different versions of Jesus. For example, Jesus is only a prophet in Islam. For Jehovah's Witnesses
he is Michael the Archangel. From what I have read in LDS literature, Jesus became a God.

Jim

I could be totally wrong and I'm only just getting into the beliefs of mormonism, but I thought LDS believed that Michael the Archangel was incarnated as Adam? Is that right?

And I think you have a good point, if the point of the plan of salvation is to be exalted to godhood, you would have to assume Jesus made the cut, so does that mean we won't see Jesus in Heaven, if he's been exalted to a God he'd have his own universe to be God of right?

[JST question]

On 7/26/2018 at 4:34 AM, estradling75 said:

No we do not own the Full JST... what make you think we own what we have?  We could be doing some form of licensing. I do not know the agreement we made to be allowed to use what we have, but the agreement could have had conditions that limit what/how we can use it.  They do put out their own Inspired Version of the King James Bible that anyone can buy.  Maybe they did not want competition or maybe they wanted the LDS church to buy their version?.  Any of these cases (that anyone has already suggested) could cause what we see now or something else that we can't even guess at...   

Hope I don't sound like I need a tinfoil hat here but who are the 'they' you are referring to?

[receiving a fulness of joy]

5 hours ago, theplains said:

When Heavenly Father was only a man growing up on his planet, what led to his ambition to be worshipped when
he became a God and had spiritual children who would live on our planet Earth?

Thanks,
Jim

Interesting thought isn't it?  I'm just learning and can only speculate but I would guess his motivation would be so that he could be like his Heavenly Father, just like it is for us.

[Correctly Calculating Tithing]

Thanks everyone, that really helps.  I think for now I might just start putting aside 10% of my net income to get used to it while I'm still studying and learning about the church and deciding if God wants me to join.  I get taxed 50 cents out of every dollar on the majority of my income so I honestly wouldn't be able to do 10% of my gross.

[Correctly Calculating Tithing]

D&C 119:4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

Hi everyone, I've read through an entire thread on tithing and now I'm even more confused! The D&C says one tenth of all interest annually, but if example 3 is correct you're paying tithing on top of tithing so I don't think thats correct, maybe example 2 is closer to it? Or maybe I'm looking way too much into this and it really is as simple as example 1?

I don't have a problem working out the 10% of my income but its the assets I am having trouble with. I want to understand this correctly so can someone please tell me which of the following basic examples is doctrinally correct?  Which example would you consider an honest tithe? Which example would you yourself pay on?  

Thanks so much for your help.  I can just see myself in a temple recommend interview saying "um I'll have to speak to my accountant and get back to you on that!"

Example 1

I join the church in 2018

my home is worth $600K and I owe $100K on my home

My income is 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income

total tithe 10K

2019

my home is worth $600K and now I owe $50K on my home

My income is 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income

total tithe 10K

Example 2

I join the church in 2018

my home is worth $600K and I owe $100K on my home

My income is 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income 

Total tithe would be 10K

2019

home is still worth 600K but now I owe 50K on it

my income is still 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income and 5K of the value of the portion of my home I have gained since last year.

Total tithe would be 15K

 

Example 3

I join the church in 2018

my home is worth $600K and I owe $100K on my home

My income is 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income plus 50K of the value of the portion of my home I own.

Total tithe would be 60K

2019

home is still worth 600K but now I owe 50K on it

my income is still 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income and 5K of the value of the portion of my home I have gained since last year.

Total tithe would be 15K

 

Example 4

I join the church in 2018

my home is worth $600K and I owe $100K on my home

My income is 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income plus 50K of the value of the portion of my home I own.

Total tithe 60K

2019

My home is still worth 600K but now I owe 50K on it

my income is still 100K a year

I would tithe 10K of my income and 55K of the value of the portion of my home I own.

Total tithe would be 65K

 

[Do you need tithe if you in debt?]

moved post to 'Learn about the mormon church'