pushka

I feel so sorry for you, that you are living in a country in which you have to pay for medical care, because if you were here in the UK you would be able to seek help from your doctor who would be able to either prescribe you some medication to ease your depressed state, or send you to a psychiatrist who could assess whether or not you were suffering from some sort of psychosis, and treat you accordingly. I'm not saying this to be cruel to you, or to poke fun...I am very concerned about your state of mind, you must seek help from your physician. Please listen to what I and other posters on here are saying to you...I know you are religious and wish to pray for help, do so if that makes you feel better, seek any guidance from your Bishop and others, but please see your doctor too...

Why don't you ask Him yourself? Ask and ye shall recieve. LOL, I have asked...and was not given any answers...so I used my logic and started researching the church instead...finding inconsistencies, which other posters on here in the past have discussed/debated...as I've said elsewhere, there have been/are problems with all religions, as they appear to be 'man made', so their doctrines are altered to suit their own purposes. Instead of following religion/religious leaders, I just try to do my best to be good to people, in whatever way I can...and take care of myself too...hopefully, if there is a 'heaven' this might lead me there :)

Jenda I think this is the best way to view any sort of religious/spiritual/emotional highs...don't seek to compare the size and splendour of your experiences to those of others, in a hope that you will have had a better experience than they have...just carry on being a good person, and be good to yourself too, and you will be given whatever 'highs' or 'rewards' God and Jesus have promised you...

I think you need some serious, urgent help from a doctor and psychiatrist before you do some harm to yourself...Please, you must STOP believing that it is Satan making you gay...get help now!

That's great Cal...I read another post earlier about how you maintain your belief in the LDS church...I once attended the church, for 5 years, but left it when I became involved in a relationship which would have got me tangled up in the 'do's' and 'don'ts'. I suppose I was the same sort of believer that you are at the time, I still see some good in all the religions I've read about, but I don't follow any specific one anymore. Hope your guitar thang goes okay!

I agree with you Cal...I just can't seem to get that through to Yaanufs!

Proof of your allegations B)

Well said Cal...I agree with every word... and anyway...who believes statistics these days? they are almost always flawed...

Hiya Cal...it's great to see you back here posting...I find your posts very interesting... May I ask you, are you LDS and is the picture on your avatar supposed to represent Bob Dylan? :)

Mark44...I feel so sorry for you...to me, you appear to be one of the casualties of the Lds teachings on homosexuality...I am so shocked however, at the anger in your posts against not only other gays, but at liberals/democrats...what makes you think that they made you what you are? I disagree with Gordon Hinckley and the other prophets teachings re homosexual feelings...feelings just exist, sure you can try to alter your feelings, however the ones I would be trying to alter/eliminate in your case would be those in which you feel you want to be the leader of a Nazi concentration camp in which you would destroy all gays and liberals!!! I'm afraid that statement you made caused me to feel that you might be suffering from some severe mental illness...at the very least confusion caused by the teachings of your church. You have so much hate in your post...hate for liberals, other gays, gay marriage, lds girls who you say want sex...why can you not accept the way you have been born? Is your faith in the LDS church so strong that you will not question their beliefs on homosexuality? I feel that you think there is much pressure on you to conform within the church, settle down with a wife and have children. Many homosexual couples successfully bring up children too. I am sorry that you have lied about your situation regarding girlfriends/wives/fiances, this is so sad. It is also sad that you have used drink as an escape, although if you are depressed (which you sound) then alcohol will only enhance these feelings and anger. Feel free to visit the Church Counsellors as recommended by Snow, however I would suggest that you also consult counsellors that are not attached to your church, where you can feel free to air any difficulties you have about the church and its stance on homosexuality...as you may not (subconsiously) agree with those teachings but just feel that you have to conform. The easiest way to deny that you have homosexual feelings is to say you hate all homosexuals...but you know that you are not telling the truth when you say this. Please get help immediately and don't think about taking your life. I must add one more thing too...I do not think that being homosexual has anything to do with the bonding between you and your parents at an early age...this is such a negative message to give to those church members who are suffering from the conflict of their church beliefs and their homosexuality...I hope that the comment you made regarding sending them to the spirit prison and the lowest level was not really what you would like to happen to them.

Awwww...poor Spongebob!! I love that cartoon and can't wait for the UK release of the movie...

Yeah...seems like a very 'clinical' way to view relationships!

Wow! Traveler, I think you did very well too...I suppose there wouldn't have been access to mobile phones back then? so calling for a paramedic wouldn't have been an option!!! Congratulations on your successful stitching..lol, and the lesson you taught your scouts..

Since you want to sidetrack the issue and go down this route why dont I show the next logical step in your thinking. Being a non-believer in God or religion.... and based upon things I have read on other websites regarding religious history etc. What makes you believe that Peter, James and John and the other early church apostles and OT prophets had great spiritual highs ...visitations, visions etc. ? How do you know it wasn't all made up? Did I ever say that I did believe those things? Why do you think I am here...because I used to believe those things without question as a child, and teenager...having been a Catholic and receiving religious instruction all my life, then attending the Mormon church for 5 years..however, as I matured into adulthood, I began questioning all that I had been taught...including those things that I learned about the Mormon church...it took me 20 years or so before I really began looking at websites about the church's history and the inconsistencies...and, before you might be tempted to ask, no I do not still attend the Catholic church either, nor any others. I know the Catholic church has its faults too, and I don't know enough about other religions to comment on them. So my question still stands... 'surely those who are earnestly seeking God and a really putting in a heartfelt effort should be rewarded with great spiritual signs that are more significant than someone who is just starting out on a path of belief? Not just, more and more experiences that are harder and harder to discern from the feelings of indigestion.' (Yaanufs, 20th Jan 2005) Why do you continue to feel that you should DESERVE greater spiritual signs than anybody else according to how long you have been a member of the church and on what deeds you do? As pointed out by other posters here, if you believe in God and Jesus and heaven etc. then surely the greatest reward you receive is admittance to heaven (or one of the 3 levels according to your Church). I'm sorry but the way you write makes me think that you believe some people are better than others and should, therefore, have visitations or whatever, and then should shout out to the world about them!!! Isn't that being just a little boastful and proud?

'These spiritual experiences people refer to seem to be the fairly low level, common or garden type experiences. Not exceptional experiences or significantly amazing like many mentioned in the scriptures and that occured at the time of Joseph Smith. No one wishes to divulge any of their spiritual experiences, they are all too personal. It's lucky Joseph Smith didn't feel like that ' (Yaanuf..20th January..sorry forgot to use the 'quote' option) Just to throw a spanner in the works...being a non-believer of LDS doctrine...and based upon things I have read on other websites regarding the church history etc. What makes you believe that Joseph Smith and the other early church members/leaders really had those kinds of 'spiritual highs'..visitations etc. ? How do you know it wasn't all made up?

Thanks PD...I would have voted against using the stickers too. I think the school should have just trusted in the intelligence of its students, and realised that those with opposing religious views would have had ample opportunity to discuss/debate these issues either with their families, at church or within Religious lessons...

Thanks Pd...I see what you are getting at...what are your personal views regarding the labels being attached to the text books? Do you think that they should have been attached or not, considering that the school was supposed to be neutral as far as religious beliefs was concerned?

I agree with you Amilia...the same nastiness that is in the world today has always been around but the media is able to report it more now, so it seems to be worse...

Thank you PD...I must admit I do get confused by all the legal jargon/terminology... I suppose when I first saw the original post, I thought, well, evolution is a theory...though I wondered whether the definition of it had been altered since to define it now as fact, based on scientific evidence. I'm wondering, did the school board of Governors think of sending out a questionnaire to all parents of children at the school, asking them what their views would be if such a sticker was placed on science books teaching about evolution...and explaining its wording and the full reasons they were thinking of placing it on them? Perhaps if they had have done this, they would have got the views of the majority and could have followed those and avoided any legal problems? I do think that it is sad that schools must tread over egg shells about what they teach regarding aspects of science, sex education etc. ( I went to a Catholic school and our sex.ed. teacher was carefully instructed regarding what she was allowed to say about the use of contraception, and was informed not to encourage the use of it due to our religious beliefs...however that was a Church School not a State school) in order not to offend any church goers in their community. I think students should be taught a full programme of education, including those areas that are uncomfortable for people who belong to certainl faiths...however, as this school was attempting to do, should be taught in a way that is neutral.

I don't equate this argument to God or Satan, however I do feel that the increase of materialism in the world has placed more pressure on children to conform to the style of their peers...ie. wearing designer clothes, upgrading their mobile phones etc. This in turn puts pressure on their parents who feel that their child might be bullied if he/she doesn't 'fit in'. A very, very sad situation. I have 2 children, a daughter of 15 and a son of 12. My daughter dresses in a way that she likes and feels comfortable with...she is not into 'designer' clothes, bling bling etc, she sees this as alien to her. She has some friends, who she only mixes with occasionally, who are into those things, but she doesn't mix with their wider group of friends as they take drugs (soft not hard drugs), and steal and fight, so she sort of associates that style with those types of behaviour and doesn't want to get involved. My son, however, is well into the designer clothes and bling bling!!! and into rap music, 50 cent, eminem, and r&b, Usher etc. (I don't mind his musical tastes, btw). Fortunately at 12 he is more interested in playing football or PS2 games than using drugs or anything...he doesn't smoke and says he never will...and I talk to both of my children about the dangers of drug abuse. Hopefully, with a little guidance, and support if bullying occurs, we can still produce well balanced, caring, sensible children in spite of all the pressures around them...unfortunately some children do rebel and experiment with drugs, alcohol, breaking the law in spite of this, but as I said in the other post, this is just a fact of life...all we can do if that happens is show that we still love them, forgive them, and find them the help they need to become the person they used to be...

I agree that the alternative sticker wording was better...and if any sticker was to be used it should have been that one.Can you explain 'Comes anywhere close to the level of establishment of religion that the Founders intended to prohibit.' for me please...I'm probably being a bit 'slow' but my understanding of why the sticker was banned was not because it was aiding the establishment of any religion/religious thought, but that the impression it would give to any 'informed, reasonable person' would be that it was supporting the views of the religious people that evolution was just a theory, and not a fact, and so was seen to be biased towards religion instead of remaining neutral, and making those who believe in evolution the 'outsiders' and those who believed in the Creationist theories...and other religious theories of where we came from, the 'insiders'. Hope I have remembered that correctly, I haven't got the link open at the moment.

Roll on WW3...which country do you think Georgy Boy will choose to invade next?

I think the decision whether or not to join any Boy Scouting or Girl Guiding (as we have here in the UK) programmes should be made by the child/teenager. Of course programmes should be available for them to learn life skills, skills the same as those being taught by the Scouts and Guides too, but they should want to attend these courses, they should not be forced to do so...encouragement should be the real force here. Schools and community groups should work together more to inform children of these schemes and help them to attend safely. There will always be an element of selfish children in any organisation, that is the way it is...Maybe schools and community groups should be looking at ways of providing rehabilitation to these children, and counselling to see what has led them to act in an anti social, selfish manner.

I read through this quite lengthy document and so can see now why the stickers were removed. I thought pages from 32 onward were most helpful in explaining the Court's decision.I know this case wasn't as important as those concerning Blacks being allowed into previously segregated schools, however I agree that it was important. The stickers were placed onto the science books because of the feelings of the Christian parents, and Christian members of the School governing board. I am pleased that the school at least started to teach about evolution as it would be sad if many teenagers were denied this opportunity because of the narrow minded views of their parents. As pointed out, no other school text books had stickers placed upon them, encouraging students to read the 'theories' contained in them with an 'open mind', it would be interesting to see religious text books containing the same message regarding it's 'theory' of how God created the earth...

I think knowing that you have helped somebody who is in need of care, or reassurance, love, a shoulder to cry on even, and seeing them smile as a result is the only 'spiritual high' that you need. Just do good and look after yourself for the sake of it and be satisfied, don't look for rewards.