zil2

I thought this was hilarious, so I'm sharing it:

PS: Might be too soon, but what an opportunity you have to teach about humility and forgiving others regardless of whether they've asked for it.

Nope. But the goal is that he knows to turn to and trust his parents when he can't trust others. Love your son. Love the Lord. Teach your son to love and trust the Lord.

Yeah, well, if the arm holes are as tight as they look, you (like women currently), will be wishing for good old fashioned sleeves to come back. (The arm holes on the last style of tops I bought are very, very restrictive - and there was no alternative. The best you could do was go with too large a size - at which point the length makes it a dress... I would kill for a t-shirt (men's t-shirts, not women's) style top for women's garments.) Meanwhile, that's not really a wife-beater. The shoulder fabric is far too wide.

This. I went through teenage years in low-density Zion. I knew long before any of the other kids (outside the Church) came along with temptations or just bad ideas that we (my family, members of the Church) don't do those kinds of things. And I knew when other girls in the Church chose to do things I'd been taught not to that in my family, we don't do those things, even if a member of the Church does. It made living the gospel so much easier, knowing in advance that we were going to live the gospel no matter what anyone else, in or out of the Church did, and if that made us different, good for us (hard though it may be). Draw the line - they do what they do, but no matter what they do, we live the gospel. And yeah, explain the why. Bear and build testimony. The gospel should be ever-present in your home. It may be too late to prepare your kid in advance that members of the Church aren't always good examples of gospel living, but it's not too late to use this experience to teach faith and humility. Personally, I'd be worried that involvement in other religions would convince my kid that the Church isn't true at all... (Reminder: all that was written by a non-parent who barely remembers her teen years.)

Because, you know, computers and the internet shut off at 5pm local time and don't start working again until 9am local time (assuming it's not a weekend or "bank holiday"). But have no fear, your bank is making serious profit off your money while it sits in limbo transfer...

So sorry you and your child are going through this, @RMConcernedDad! I cannot offer you advice - not a parent, don't recall being a child. It sure sounds like the ward leaders are failing to do as Christ commanded - the Book of Mormon makes it quite clear that Christ does not want anyone sent away, but rather included (e.g. 3 Nephi 18:25). Hopefully some of the parents here will have advice for you.

I may not know much, but: All that says you are anything but worthless. I'm sorry for all your struggles. I cannot explain anything except that my own trials suggest that each of us is here to learn to follow Christ no matter what. (And each of us has a different "what" to overcome.) I could only guess at the answers to your questions about who is called an why, and I don't know that guesses would be right or help you. Welcome to ThirdHour, @westdelrio! If nothing else, we can offer you the friendship of fellow saints.

Long time no see, @Anddenex! Nice to see you back.

That was my assumption, but as soon as you say "unease", someone always responds with "no need to panic"...

The question is whether your sense of unease is you alone, or also includes the influence of the Holy Ghost. Before someone jumps in talking about not panicking, keep in mind that you don't know exactly where @mikbone's money is, nor what the Lord has in store for him, and so maybe he does indeed need to make some changes while others of us are fine how things are (or not). I have been trying to worry about my own situation, but cannot. I don't know if that's because I'm Spirit-deaf on this topic, or because I'm in a good position... But I try to pay a bit of attention and consider prayerfully what things I should do next to prepare for whatever the Lord has in store for me and my furballs. (They're taken care of - if I die, they can survive by eating me. Hopefully they don't kill each other over who gets my liver...)

They (the Es) must all flock there in relief that someone wants them.

In other news... Does anyone else feel bad for the letter E? Excluded from its rightful place, pushed aside and forgotten, dragged out only when someone needs a sarcastic "E for effort"... Alas, poor E. No wonder it trails along behind so many words, hoping to be seen. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Welcome to ThirdHour, @I Forgave You Yesterday! I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.

How do you know there will be no women in heaven? Revelation 8:1 Yeah, not funny.

Yes, and silence in heaven...

Because Satan is abroad in the land.

Link to the chapter, for context. Bible Dictionary entry for "John, Epistles of". A bit of quick googling suggests this letter wasn't written to anyone specific, but to the churches (perhaps in a specific region). What I read makes me think of it like an article in the Liahona. Verse 27 builds on the same theme. That said, all I can figure is that the "anointing" suggests he's addressing those who hold the priesthood, and perhaps those who have received whatever early temple ordinances they had. And I think "know all things" means simply that they know the truth of the gospel as preached by the Lord and the apostles - sort of like saying "you know all this". Contrasting with those who are being deceived by people teaching false doctrines. (see verse 21+, which describes what John's trying to counter) Some other translations change "and ye know all things" to "and all of you know the truth" (for example). Check out this entry in the Scripture Citation Index (look for the orange-highlighted reference). Brigham Young seems to be suggesting what I said - that this is a way of referring to members of the Church. You can keep scrolling through and see how other prophets and apostles have used this scripture in their talks. Here's the NT Institute manual chapter on 1-3 John (scroll and you'll find a section specifically about this verse). HTH.

Personally, I think ancient scribes did some serious redacting to remove anything that overtly mentioned the Son of God. Mention of the Messiah was OK, but not the idea that God would have a Son. (I have no scholarly evidence of this, but either something like that happened, or the Book of Mormon prophets were incorrect when they said all prophets have testified of Christ.) Further, I think that whenever you, or I, or anyone testifies of truth concerning Christ, we are speaking with the spirit of prophecy.

I wish I knew. I had the same sort of thoughts about the kingdom. Only a guess about the daily bread - perhaps the Nephites were so abundantly blessed during times of righteousness that they didn't need to ask for daily bread - whereas the Jews under the Romans, at least, those who followed Christ, were not so prosperous...

For the ease of readers: 3 Nephi 13:2-13. For the ease of readers: Verse 13 made a lot more sense to me when I learned that some translations read: "And suffer us not to be led into temptation (<JST), but deliver us from the evil one: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen." The other translations change "evil" into "the evil one", aka Satan. IMO, that makes the "For" make sense, otherwise, the "For" doesn't really make sense to me. (See Moses 4:1-3, and some of its footnotes.) This is reminding us of the council in heaven, where the evil one sought to take away the kingdom, power, and glory of God; but Christ acknowledged they are God's forever.

Ages ago, when I was in college. We would sing a hymn in Spanish at the start of one of my Spanish classes. For some reason, I can only remember (without looking it up) some of the words to "High on the Mountain Top". Doing so isn't going to make me like it better. "Like" is not, in the case of music (as far as I can tell), a matter of comprehension or appreciation - and in this case, not even a matter of familiarity - we sing this thing often. Me either, actually, but I do like it - and I was going for what I like vs dislike, not only my favorites. My dad, who played piano, didn't like this one - he thought it too simple and something used too often. As for the subject mater, for some reason, I like thinking about the consequences of "eternity" and "infinity", so that aspect of this song appeals to me. My dad had the same opinion of "Ye Elders of Israel" - which is one of my favorites (perhaps in part because I never get to hear it in Church). It also has a story element to it. I have a friend (woman) who absolutely detests "As Sisters in Zion" - due to its syrupy text. I don't dislike this one, but I can't say I like it either - it sits in my "meh" zone.

Because it's a hymn, it's a given that it must teach truth and thereby invite the Spirit. If it doesn't seem to do this, I may like it, but it doesn't make the top of my list. ("Scatter Sunshine" encourages good behavior, but it doesn't directly teach of (or even mention) Christ or His gospel. An atheist who believes in treating others kindly could sing this song without finding anything objectionable. Its presence in the hymn book kind of puzzles me.) The following are why I like a hymn - the more of these the hymn fits, the more and more likely I like it. These are not necessarily in order of importance (I'm not sure there is an order of importance as far as "like" goes). I didn't list it as a separate item, but if a hymn brings the Spirit so strongly that thinking about its meaning reduces me to tears, it's at the top of my list... 1. Directly teaches of Christ. (And even better if it includes restoration truths.) "I Stand All Amazed" is a good example here. I cannot both think about the meaning of the words and sing "I Stand All Amazed" - thinking about the meaning while the music is playing reduces me to tears (see also under #3 below).) It's hard for me to identify the difference between this and "I Believe in Christ"... Familiarity (see #5), music, emotion? ("I Stand All Amazed" is more internal and emotional, where "I Believe in Christ" is (to me at least) mostly a listing of factoids. And I can't seem to put myself in the position of "I", despite my testimony - I always experience this hymn as someone speaking to me, not as me speaking, and I have no idea why.) "Beautiful Savior" (children's songbook) is another I like (I seem to like lullaby music - here's MoTab, gently singing you to sleep) Nearly all the Sacrament, Christmas, and Easter hymns can go in here. 2. Tells a story or at least has a "character" in it. This might be the most important for me. I often have difficulty relating or feeling connected in real life, and yet I have no difficulty "moving in and living" a story, feeling deeply the emotions of the characters - indeed, it happens automatically and subconsciously with a well-told story. (#3 and #4 feed into this.) "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief" is probably the best example, but a surprising number of hymns are story-like (it's a crime that we don't always sing all verses) "Nearer My God to Thee" took someone else pointing out that this is actually a story before I noticed it! "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" - what a story! I like the original text. Interestingly, "Joseph Smith's First Prayer" tells a story, but I don't like it. It's too syrupy and past-tense and someone-else-y, not "this motivates me to do something-y" (see #4 and contrast with "Praise to the Man"). "Master, the Tempest Is Raging" "Be Still, My Soul" "How Gentle God's Commands" (also #3, #4, and lullaby-like) "Dear to the Heart of the Shepherd" "Onward, Christian Soldiers" (I also have a soft spot for marches - Rimsky-Korsakov does good marches) When you start looking, you find that a fair number of hymns at least have "characters" you can relate to, often a plot of sorts, and imagery which all work together to inspire faith in Christ. 3. Imagery, not just rhymes. To me, rhyming prose is not the same as poetry (even if technically it is poetry). If an image is worth a thousand words, a single poetic line paints a picture. "I Believe in Christ" is rhyming prose. (There are three, at most, images in it, but they're weak images, IMO.) "High on the Mountain Top" - good imagery, a sort of plot "How Firm a Foundation" - especially the 4 verses we don't usually sing - it's a crime that we don't sing all 7 verses every time (though I couldn't do it - I'd be weeping like a baby if I tried - the only way I can sing some hymns is if I can manage not to think about the meaning, but then, that seems to defeat the purpose (excuse me while I get a tissue - yes, literally, just got a tissue to wipe my eyes - can't even think about the full hymn without tears)); this might be my favorite hymn. "Beautiful Zion, Built Above" is one that includes beautiful and inspiring imagery. I also like the music. (And somehow it manages not to be syrupy.) "Rock of Ages" - we don't sing this enough "Angels from the Realms of Glory" (same author as "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief") is full of powerful imagery The first two verses of "If You Could High to Kolob" have good imagery 4. Ascending verses - rising, increasing, whatever you want to call it. (Verses that build on each other, as well as inspire to greater obedience, nobility, virtue, whatever.) While you could claim all or many hymns do this, some do it better than others. "Nearer My God to Thee" is the best example I can think of off the top of my head. (This one ticks pretty much all the boxes.) "Come Come, Ye Saints" fits, too "The Spirit of God" "O My Father" 5. I have to assume that to some degree, familiarity and "what I've liked since before conscious memory" plays a part, since I like some hymns that don't fit well into the above, and these seem to be the "old favorites" - things that I would have heard over and over, even before I was born (i.e. in the womb) because our congregations sing them so often. And I suppose we could stuff the actual tune into here - but I don't think there's any hymn I like only for the music, without the lyrics mattering... "Praise to the Man" probably fits here, with bits of #4 and #1's restoration aspect tossed in. Perhaps I should add a "Joseph Smith" category - I have a particularly strong testimony of him (but that doesn't overcome the syrup of "Joseph Smith's First Prayer"). (And it's entirely possible that it's the pipes and drums and my Scottish ancestry that push this hymn into my favorites.) For the record, "'Tis Sweet to Sing the Matchless Love" should only be sung to the music found in hymn #177. #176 (not worthy of being linked) is all wrong!! 6. OK, "If You Could High to Kolob" makes me think maybe I need a new category, one related to doctrinal curiosity or pondering, or something. I do like a hymn that makes me think or perceive in a way different from my usual. Sorry if my novella bored you. I enjoyed thinking about all the reasons I like hymns and hope your own pondering of what you like, and why, was beneficial for you. I've enjoyed reading your perceptions, and hope more folks choose to respond!

Yes, some of my likes are beyond my understandable "why"s. (I made them their own why - am in the process of writing my response.) Yes! Him and Eliza R. Snow (she's brutal, man - like Nibley - leaves you no excuses - apparently too brutal for the current hymnal: "Think Not When You Gather to Zion"; (but a little brutal is OK: "The Time Is Far Spent") - though really, I prefer "How Great the Wisdom and the Love") Love this version of "I Saw the Light" (Yes, I first heard it on the version of Columbo mentioned in the description! )

If you look up the lyrics, you'll see that we've limited our version to verses 1, 4, and 3 - in that order! (we left out 2, 5, and 6.) Anywho, I expect you're not alone in your feelings. But this doesn't tell me whether you've ever considered why you like what you do like.