Blueskye2

Then there’s the judgmental aspect.

At the death of President Hinckley, I mentioned to LDS acquaintance that my parish prayed for his soul at Mass. I thought it was a nice thing to do but the LDS person was somewhat taken aback, and asked why would we pray for him with the assumption that his soul needed the help of our prayers. It’s the assumptions that get under people’s skin. People who are deeply committed to a religion, might view doing something that implies the deceased person’s religious commitment was for naught, as saying something very personal about the deceased and their own deeply held beliefs.

Sorry, but what about the LDS Heavenly Mother, who is a goddess (divine entity) but without the LDS title of God? This is where a definition of henotheism would fit, no?

By the Cross, someone who is seeking forgiveness, already has the ultimate evidence that their sins are already forgiven. What the priest gives is absolution, which is a declaration that the penitent’s sins are forgiven. A priest cannot say, the Cross was ineffective for you, and you are not forgiven. As I think you probably know, each Catholic Sacrament has a form, a substance and graces. The substance, in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, is the contrition of the penitent. A priest makes a judgement as to whether or not the substance (contrition) is there. That’s it, the presence of contrition is the only judgement the priest is making. He will not offer absolution without contrition. It would be like asking a priest to baptize someone without water. Just isn’t possible because water is the substance for the Sacrament of Baptism. An absurd example of contrition being absent, would be in a a movie, where someone commits adultery over and over and goes to confession between each tryst. In real life, absolution would not be given as it would be obvious to a priest there is no contrition. Absolution assures us of the forgiveness that God has already gifted to a contrite penitent...the Sacraments are for our benefit, not for God’s.

Temple theology in Catholicism clearly points to the liturgy of the Eucharist, where Christ is present body, blood, soul and divinity. Jesus naming himself the new temple, that would be raised in three days. The Eucharist is, absolutely, for Catholics, at same level of sacredness and importance as the LDS temple is for LDS. We are not sealed to each other. We (the baptized) are sealed to Jesus Christ. It is in our communion with Him, in Him, and through Him, that we are made one body. All of us, as St. Paul wrote, the living stones of God’s temple.

Brigham Young taught exactly, this. (And not as speculation.)

FWIW, I don’t see Hebrews as commending the sacrifice of a daughter. It is commending faith, which Jephthah had in regards to believiving the God of a Israel would be victorious over a pagan god, vis a vis battle between the followers of their respective God(s). A better detailed explanation is here. http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/the-biblical-hero-who-.-.-.-killed-his-daughter Short of it is, the author of Hebrews would not commend human sacrifice as it is strictly forbidden in the Moasic Laws of Deuteronomy. The author and his Jewish audience would be as convinced of the wrongnesss of human sacrifice as you and I. Hebrews itself goes into great length regarding no blood sacrifice being required because of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, I’ve seen the sacrifice part of Jephthah’s story compared to the Greek folktale of Iphigenia, ie, it didn’t really happen; the ancient story being repurposed and inserted in the story as an explanation for the practice in verses 39 and 40. This also supports Hebrews being about the faith of Jephthah, in believing God would make his army victorious, and not about commending human sacrifice. God uses us sinful humans, like Jephthah, a bandit with no inheritance who makes rash vows and performs human sacrifice. The epitome of all that a righteous Jewish man is not. Yet his faith (not his rash vow), “conquered kingdoms”. More often than not, OT stories are about God’s mercy and endless patience with His chosen people. Numerous incidences of God using men and women of faith, who were far from perfect. The NT continues this theme, for as St. Paul wrote, “Christ died for us, while we were still sinners”. It is about God’s love, towards us. It seems rather serendipitous to me, that your predicament and the story of Jephthah, are being discussed in the same thread! (Or maybe time to call up Dr. Freud. ) Edit to add a thought of my own. Often characters in the OT represent Israel. In the story of Jephthah, it is again, that the Israelites have fallen into idolatry. Human sacrifice was a practice of the tribes around them, who sacrificed children to the foreign gods that the Israelites were forbidden to worship. So Jephthah could represent Israel, idolotrous with a simultaneous faith in the One God of Israel. Not righteous yet still, chosen by God,,with God’s endless mercy and love, shown even while they are still sinners. Conquering their idolatrous neighbors, yet again a period when the Israelites turn away from the foreign gods. For a while anyway, not really getting over their infatuation with foreign gods, until after the Babylonian exile.

We, including the priest, say together the confiteor (I confess) at every Mass. Doing so is a confession for less serious sins, what we call venial. Absolution is given then, by the priest, acting in the person of Jesus. In the Sacrament of confession, grave sins should be confessed, and it's ok to confess lesser (venial) sins as well. Forgiveness is an action of the Holy Spirit. The sacramental effects are, the rift sin has caused between the penitent and God, and the penitent and the Church, is repaired, remissions of eternal punishment for the sins, peace and serenity of conscience, spiritual consolation, an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle. I see similarities in LDS teaching, except the "peace and serenity of conscience, spiritual consolation, an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle", I don't see LDS discuss. Maybe it's not a thing? I just don't know.

A Catholic priest is a servant of Jesus Christ, a priest is himself and Jesus is Jesus. A priest shares in the High Priesthood of Jesus, and Jesus acts through the priest.

For a Catholic, Jesus is our great High Priest. A Catholic priest acts in the person of Christ. It is Christ who forgives us of our sins, not the priest. John 20:19-23.

Good analogy! The Sacrament is one of healing. Many Saints are said to have gone to daily confession. I have no idea how often most Catholics go to confession. No one tracks or reports. Confession isn’t like in the movies, where you just show up and a priest pops into the confessional. I don’t even know how that could work, since a priest isn’t hanging around the confessional all day waiting for a penitent to show up. Confessional times are set. My parish is every Saturday from 4-4:45. People line up outside the confessional, and it doesn’t take long per person. But yes, confessing our sins is an important part of being Catholic. It’s a sign of our faith.

“Valerian”. ....finally. Dunno yet, still thinking on it. Lots of stealing from Star Wars. Super cool SFX. Luc Besson works from three decades mashed together. Will have to watch it again. Also watched “Baby Driver”, the plot fell apart towards the end. Oh, and the dear hubby put on a Doors documentary while I made pies. Definitely a liberal view on the era. Other than that, Morrison was highly intelligent. I commented, except for that time he overdosed. (I think overdosing on drugs is a sign of stupidity, myself, but I’m really ticked off at a few people for doing the same. Triggered! ) I don’t know what this file is about, and I can’t delete it.

I can only go by my conservative family, who I referenced, all who think non-white immigrants are lawless enemies and white immigrants should be treated like pilgrims. You should understand, that some in my family have racist tendencies. None went to Northwest U.

It’s a two way street. Plenty of conservative Christians bash on liberal, libtards, etc. who are in fact their fellow Christians. Always an implication that a real Christian is conservative. A good friend of mine, very conservative, very Catholic, once called liberal Christians “feral”. He was quoting a conservative Catholic news article. I pointed out that wasn’t a charitable Christian view of others, and he agreed, but it chilled our friendship considerably. Hard to be friends with someone who views you and your ilk as feral. The real kicker in this is, that both he and I agreedthat a Catholic can’t really follow either Republicans or Democrats in lock step with either’s agenda. That voting is a process of selecting the best (morally speaking) out of the not quite exactly what I’m looking for bunch. I have very liberal friends and family, where I am the conservative, mainly because I don’t support abortion, to a level that conservatives generally do not venture. Then I have very conservative friends and family who are Trump supporters, listen to Alex Jones and quote Breitbart, and I am the liberal. Mainly because I think immigrants are not the enemy. That isn’t to say I’m some kind of perfect model of can’t we all just get along. I have my own biases, for sure, that I am aware of and would like to be more charitable myself. The only way to manage any kind of relationship is to just not talk about religion or politics, especially with friends, family and coworkers.

Have you looked into having the drug offense expunged? If it is eligible for expungement, it would be worth the time and money, as that is going to stick to you like glue and affect volunteering for your kids activities, employment, even housing, until you die.

Most UUs in UT are people looking for a religious home. Spiritual refugees of sorts, mainly from Mormonism. I didn’t know any who were SJWs. At the time I was an atheist. I left the UUs because the pagan aspect was overriding. The night they had Fairy Blessing, ended it for me. One of my two most enduring memories from that time are when I marched in the Pride Parade, with the UUs. We passed a group on the parade route who had a sign that said, “God hates f*gs”. A grown man in our UU group, in his 60s, broke down and cried, and I mean sobbing. His UU friends gathered around him like an army of love, consoling him and assuring him that he is loved by God. The most compassionate, Christ like behavior came from the UUs, in my book, and the hateful behavior, from the people with the sign.

I participated in a UU church for a couple of years. Don’t know that they are a Christian denomination any more. Pretty much they’re creed is “don’t be an inconvenience to my person”. Most UUs are atheist, agnostic or pagan. I knew one UU who said they were Christian. I never heard a sermon about Jesus, never heard readings from the Bible, well heck, never worshipped, period, while I was at the UUs. They’re Sunday meetings are more like secular presentations on various topics. People bring they’re mugs of coffee and relax while listening. I wouldn’t say UUs bow to the left, I’d say they are the left. If a bet could be placed, I’d wager it was a member of the congregation who went to the press. Possibly the reporter is a UU. I just mean to say, it’s all very normal UU behavior. It’s absolutely fine to publicize any and all greviences. It’s how a group of people with a wide range of individual beliefs, get along.

Years ago, whenever I travelled for business and said I was from Utah, people always assumed I was Mormon. I just let them. Didn’t want to get into my own personal beliefs (or unbelief) I had a similar experience once, in Nashville, having dinner with coworkers who were all active LDS, and the table next to us was on a loud and merry Mormon bash. Our business hosts, who were not LDS were appalled. Apologetic and really embarrassed.

Arius was excommunicated in the West for his heresy. He went east and found a Bishop (Eusebius) who supported him. This same Bishop was a confidant of Constantine. Long story made short, Nicaea was attended almost entirely by Bishops from the East. The Pope sent a legate to represent the West, who had already declared Arius a heretic. The Bishops in the East declared, nearly unanimously, Arianism a heresy. The Bishop who supported Arius, the confidant of Constantine, sided with Arius. When Constantine consented to baptism, on his death bed, it was this same Arian Bishop, that baptized him. Alexander , a Bishop in the East, and Athanasia who was a deacon at the time, are who put forward homoousia, as the explanation for existing Christian doctrine. The entire Church, East and West profess the Nicaean-Constantinople Creed. There is no division on this doctrine...except for the filioque... ...The Great Schism, that you allude to, happened nearly 700 years later. The primacy of the Bishop of Rome and the filioque, are the two major points that caused the schism c.1000AD. (And a large dose of ego on both sides, if you ask me.) The filioque... i believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. The church split over the part in bold. The East says, “who proceeds from the Father”. The Pope saying, essentially, I have primacy and you should listen to me. The Patriarch of Constantinople saying, no you don’t. To which, the Pope excommunicated the Patriarch and the Patriarch responded with an excommunication of the Pope!

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I don’t think it is a case of hiding faults. More a case of not acknowledging faults. Some people are their own worse critics others are their own best admirers. Ha. And some are just plain hysterical, in a keystone criminal kind of way.

Couple of thoughts after reading through ththe thread. 1) I work in the entertainment biz. Some men in powerful positions have a strong temptation to use that power to do whatever they want. Most often, they think themselves so awesome that women want to give them everything. And many women do, so they think all women are theirs for the taking. Trump’s Billy Bush recording is a prime example of this behavior. 2) It’s some weird kind of psychological thing that I’ve witnessed, but wouldn’t know how to explain, that for some of these types of men, a woman who sends clear signals of not interested, just means that all that needs to be done is push them past their limits, and then all in the world will be ok because it provides some kind of weird evidence that all women are irresistably attracted. It’s a power play. I think Franken’s a forced French kiss and photo of real or acted out assault fits this behavior. 3) In the case of a 30 something man being attracted to teenage girls, gosh, that’s not such a rare thing. Acting on it, was wrong 40 years ago and is wrong today. I know, I was a teen 40 years ago and there is no way on God’s green earth my parents would have let me “date” a 30 year old. Every parent of a daughter I know, says, “hell no”. Trying to shrug it off as ok and normal, just adds to the creep factor. It’s just another kind of power play, against teens in this case. 4) An otherwise good man, doing any of these things, is not a big shocker. Most people are good people, most wrong doing is good people making bad choices. Like the time this really good guy I worked with for several years, turned out to be a bank robber, Really, not making it up, good husband, father, active LDS, robbing banks because he thought it the only way out of a large debt. Super bad choice 5) Nothing surprises me any more.

The Lebanese Patriarch of the Maronite Church met with King and Prince Salman. Amazing! The Crown Prince indicated he is going to open SA to al religions. Patriarch Bechara al-Rai said he supports the removal of the Labanese Prime Minister. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-lebanon-patriarch/lebanese-patriarch-in-saudi-says-supports-reasons-hariri-quit-idUSKBN1DE1XW I don’t see this as the work of the anti-Christ. Anything that provides relief for Christians in Islam countries is good news.

It is Catholic teaching, that those who follow God, according to their conscience, without having been taught the Gospel, will be judged according to their adherence to their conscience. Those who do not follow their conscience condemn themselves. So to the topic of heaven and who will be there, I sincerely believe many people from many faiths will enjoy the Beatific Vision, including Mormons! Not doomed, but in grave peril when they face God at their final judgement. The Catholic Church has declared one person only as being in hell: Judas Iscariot. In other words, God will be our judge. ETA: this doesn’t mean anything goes. Catholics walk a fine line, the Church teaching that the two sins against the Holy Spirt are presumption and despair. Presumption would be, sin away, God will forgive me. Despair would be, my sins are so awful that God cannot forgive me. We should not act in presumption or despair. And to conscience, moral decisions for a Catholic should be made with reason and faith, and acknowledging the authority of the Church. An immoral act made in good conscience is not free of guilt.

I think assuming a well informed Catholic does not understand formation of conscience is a bit of a stretch. ?