Traveler

His work and glory is to bring to pass the immorality and efurnial life of man. :) The Traveler

And yet people "in their right minds" consistently did just that for thousands of years. It seems strange to us, because we've grown up in a monotheistic environment. Ancient peoples though, couldn't grasp the concept of a single, "Alpha" God who didn't want to have images of Him made. They didn't worship the idols persay, they worshipped the deity. The idol was just something physical to represent the deity to the people. Sun, rain, wind, harvest, fertility, etc. Their everyday lives depended so heavily on these things that they would sacrifice whatever they thought these "gods" wanted in order to keep them happy. Even Israel had a very difficult time giving up the gods that they could see the images of day to day for the unseen God Yahweh. I am pleased to see we agree. But I would add that I am very much ammazed at what people will devote their live and energy to - even in our day of such great possibilities. The Traveler

I agree with both your summare and efforts to make the concept your own.Thanks The Traveler

What it is about God that helps me to worship Him is to realize that He is literally our Father and, as you said, He is only doing what He knows is best for us. And the more I learn about His character and attributes, and follow His counsel, the more I realize that He is worthy of my worship, to the point that I want to do more and more of what He wants me to do and become exactly like Him. I wouldn’t worship just anybody, you know. Btw, have you ever thought about what it means to worship somebody, or something? Why would anybody in their right mind bow down to dumb idols? Or why would anybody in their right mind spend their whole life trying to get things that are going to be gone from them as soon as they die. Anyway, I also know that is why our Lord worships our Father in heaven, and why our Lord urges us to worship Him. Our Father truly does know what is best for all of us. One of the most popular things of worship is money, another is power and another fame but the one that gets the most is pride. CS Lewis once said something like if you think you have conquered pride, you have failed. Thanks for considering my opinion. The Traveler

All of your responses are interesting though not exactly what I expected. I would like to introduce a concept about G-d that I often find missing in the manner that others esteem their worship. I agree that one of the most defining wonders of G-d is his absolute and incredible love. Here is the point. He asks us to worship him, not because he is greater than us, nor is it because of his power or majesty or for any benefit for himself. He has commanded us to worship him because he loves us and he knows that we will benefit through such worship. He also knows that if we attach our worship to something other than him that it will cause us to loose benefit. He commands our worship not because he gets a rise out of it. I actually believe that he is the king of heaven – not because he want to be king but because he knows that his being king is the best possible thing for those in heaven. He does what he does and is what he is out of service. It is a sacrifice for him. He has to give up things in order that we may be blessed with a “Father in Heaven”. The concept that G-d can do what-ever he wants is a most misleading concept. He is devoted to others to a fault; if you want to think of it that way. “For G-d so love the world that he gave his only begotten son.” Why? So we would not parish but have everlasting life. It is all for us. The only time he seems to get upset is not when we cause him pain but when we cause ourselves or other to have to suffer, because he loves everybody and watches out for us all. In fact I would summit that he wants to forgive everybody for everything and get everybody back to heaven. The only ones that will not make it are those that just refuse to cooperate, which strangely enough is most people. They won’t live in the best heaven offers because they cannot abide the “goodness” that is so abundant there. They are in essence so selfish that they are miserable immersed in love and service. So he has prepared a place in which we can all be comfortable doing what we want and being what we want. The final point is that G-d wants us to be just like him – willing to sacrifice and give up things for others, and this is the whole reason for this mortal existence. It is why things happen the way they do. It is why good always suffers and bad seems to get away with everything. Because we must learn to sacrifice for the benefit of others even when they do not care in order to know G-d as he really is. Without this understanding, the joy of a life of compassionate service is lost and there is misery in all that take advantage of you. The Traveler

The question is - What is real; what is precieved or what is? This takes another turn under the theory of quantum mechanics, which implies that any observation alters reality. But if there is no observation how can reality be known. If there is an observation there is also a human effort to relate to something that is thought or believed to be understood. The circle here is comes back to one important point. What can be observed and known and understood in order that we build the knowledge to understand what we do observe? The Traveler

Thank you both for your excellent responses. May I drill down a little deeper into you ideas? I know a "slow minded" person that is loving beyond fault. I also grew up with a dog as a child that was one of the most loving things I have known. In both cases I respected the love but did not feel a need to worship the one that was so loving. Am I to understand that you will worship anyone that will love with a g-d like love or is there something more or else that is the real trigger of your worship? The Traveler

For this is life eternal to know the only true G-d and Jesus Christ who was sent by G-d. What is it about G-d that has convinced you to worship or not worship him? What in his character and attributes is it that makes him G-d? Should you, as a believer be an example of that charactor and attribute? If you are reborn in G-d how are you convinced you that you are one with G-d? If not what is your opinion about being one with G-d? The Traveler

Cal: You are so interesting to me. I was just wondering if you happened to catch the speech by the wife of John Kerry. In an attempt to discredit the current first lady Ms. Kerry accused her of “Never having a real job”. I believe Mrs. Bush was a schoolteacher prior to her marriage to George. I was just wondering what you think of someone that publicly declares teaching school is not a “Real job”. The Traveler

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR - Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13 - Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This IS a typical, though sad, example ! of what some who have never served think of the military. But I do not understand why the Democratic party pretends it knows how to run a country. As I have said before - as bad as the Republicians are the Democrats seem to have not clue. From the Senat floor: Senator Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?" Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... ! To a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags. You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a l! ove of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible. I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?" For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he is a Senator!

Do we want to force women into dark filthy germ infested alleys to be treated with coat hangers? You know that is what will happen if you out law ------ What did you think would fill in the blank? How about we fill it in with “clean quick sanitary rape and murder in the privacy of your home”. When the courts ruled Roe vs. Wade the question and the ruling was that there is no scientific or religious proof suitable in a court of law that a fetus is human life during the first trimester of pregnancy. Under the laws of this country a person must be considered innocent until “Proven” guilty, therefore there can be no guilty verdict until proof of human life. What then is provable human life? Is a person on life support, to no longer to be considered human life? If someone is in need of CPR for survival, is it a crime to deny life saving assistance? The standard used in all other cases is “brain dead” meaning the brain in no longer able to respond to any cognitive stimulus. No such standard in a partial birth abortion. Did you know that currently it is legal and called abortion to kill a child as long as the birth process is not complete? The child can be breathing on it own, eyes open and responding to its environment – but if the birth process is not 100% complete the life of that child can legally be taken. And what is the method? In most cases of what is called partial birth abortion, the skull is crushed. There is no administering of any painkiller to the child – just a brutal act. Often the child screams during the process demonstrating they were NOT brain dead. And for what reason is such a thing to be allowed? The choice of the mother? It is said that the choice should be left between a doctor and the woman, but a doctor can, by law be denied, license to practice or fired from their employ, in many cases if they refuse to perform the abortion at the request of the woman. It is a lie to say the decision is between a woman and her doctor – an out right lie! How can we even think to allow the finger to be placed on the nuclear trigger by someone that will willing support without any question the crushing of the skull of a (very brain alive) child breathing on it own? Let alone someone that promises to never appoint any judge to any level of our courts that does not support 100% without question, such action? What justice can we possibly hope for? The Traveler

The Law by Frederic can be read in one evening. But something I beleve should be understood - Frederic knew many of the founders of our nation. Those men that risked all in forming our constitution. He believed in the great experiment of our Constitution. There were a number of flaws that he saw in our country. For example slavery he felt would be a major problem that must be ended for freedom and real free economy to have a chance. Another Idea he puts forth is that the law should 1. Protect the innocent. 2 Punish the guilty. Law used for any other purpose is unjust. Perhaps you can offer some explanation as to why you think such a society living by such laws is problematic. Why should someone else be entitled to plunder that which someone else has produced by their own labor? Is this not in essence what labor unions are all about - or at least should be all about? Usually the problem with intelligent thought is when someone wants to make an exception. Sort of the idea since there are 2 survivors and only one life vest - then I want it. This is not what I am saying. It is a matter of someone that made their life vest with materials available to everyone before they got on the ship and now someone that refused to work to build a life vest now in danger seeks the law to plunder the labor of someone else. Frederic points out that it takes less effort to plunder than it does to labor, therefore, there will always be pressure to plunder, especially when there is a large population that has been willing to labor. This is exactly what we see in the USA today. A large middle class with a great work ethic and we also see a variety of political ideas that want to plunder the middle class to fund various ends. The truth is - today the middle class is the goose that lays the golden economic egg. If we decide, as a nation to plunder and kill the goose to feed the poor or some other program (when I say kill I mean use the labor without preserving or supporting that class that is providing the labor) – we will destroy the future and run out of golden eggs. And this is exactly what we have seen in the development of the “Great Society” as an experiment beginning in the 60’s. Our government welfare programs have required a steady increase not just in $$$$ but in percent of the GNP. What began as about 2% is now approaching 20%. And poverty has both increased – not just in % of population but in effect on the population, things such as crime, health and fitness, and economic viability. We also see a shrinking middle class and a widening gap between the rich and the poor. The exact effect projected by Frederic. Use the law to plunder honest labor and the class that produces will diminish. The Democrats want to extract more from the middle class to fund social programs – they say they want to plunder the rich but the truth is there is not near as much to plunder from the rich (they are fewer in numbers) than from the middle class. The Republicans want to empower the rich to plunder everyone else in what they call capitol investment. Though they call it free enterprise – that is not true. If I had more time I would outline how Microsoft plundered stacker software in a classic case of how the rich plunder from the labor of the middle class. Perhaps some other time. The Traveler

Not my ideas but those of Frederic - I just happen to agree. You may want to read his work. But from my understanding. 1. Education - in freedom and free enterprise, principles of economics. 2. Support of laws that do not alow Plunder and protect those that labor. 3. Repeal of laws that demand plunder and protect those that refuse to labor. The Traveler

There is no problem with dating. There is a problem with exploitation. In reality there does not need to be an age difference in order to be exploitation, but for what ever reason it seems to show up most often when there is a large age difference. - my opinion The Traveler

I wanted to comment concerning the Democratic and Republican parties as they relate to free enterprise in the US market place. I am a student of Frederic Bastiat. According to his theory there are two ways to obtain wealth. 1. To work hard by your own labor and industry. 2. Plunder wealth from others. Since Plunder requires less effort man will by nature - if given the opportunity select plunder over labor. Frederic theorizes there are two kinds of plunder. First Criminal plunder. This is the activity of criminals plundering what others have produced. Second in legal plunder. This is extortion by law taking the production of others. Socialism is a form of legal plunder as is many mislabel capitalized investments. True free enterprise rewards each according to their labor. My communist friends in the Democratic Party like Cal and their cousins socialist in the Republican party think there are flaws in honest free enterprise. These are not flaws but misuse by those that call themselves Capitalist - but in reality they are just another kind of Socialist - except they believe only a select few should be allowed to live on the labor of the many. This is not free enterprise but another form of plunder. If you need help understanding the principles upon which this country was founded I suggest you purchase Frederic Bastiat’s book “The Law”. You can get it from Amazon.com for less than $5. If you think you are ready for more try Frederic Bastiat’s book “Economic Fallacies”. No one has the right to plunder the labor of others. The Traveler

You should be able to have a calling right away. Make sure it is understood you are ready to accept a calling - make a covenant promise now with the Lord to do what ever he ask of you.Going to the temple may take a while. If you are not going on a mission or getting married or are currently married; preparing for the temple will take longer than a year. Receiving a Patriarchal Blessing is between you and your bishop. I suggest you take your time. If you feel you need a blessing to help you right away - ask your home teachers or Bishop for a Priesthood blessing. Being a new member I suggest (in addition to scripture) you read Talmage "Jesus The Christ" and "Articles of Faith". Also read Kimball's "Miracle of Forgiveness". The Traveler

Cal: If Kerry is a Marxist, then Bush is a Nazi! Both characterizations are extreme distortions of reality. Me: It always amazes me how liberals distort truth. If you were really informed you would realize that Nazi’s are Socialists - granted Bush comes close because he is not a real conservative but there is a greater problem problem. Nazi’s are also nationalistic. The Bush border policy does not qualify Bush as a Nazi. The fact is Nazi’s were Left wing socialists. True conservatism is not socialism - Communist mislabel their enemies as part of their “Big Lie” attempting to distance their brand of socialism from that of the Nazi’s.. Cal: First, I'm really not much interested in what the Communist party of the United States has to say. I'm sure it is an insignificant fringe group, and there is no shortage of them. Secondly, if this party has the same platform as the democrats, then whoopy for them. (Perhaps we should tell them to go get their own positions on issues and stop copying the democrats.) I make no apology for the fact that some goofy fringe group has the good sense to follow the democrats. I suspect what you are really doing is trying to tie the democrats to the Marxist ideology. Preposterous. Marx hated capitalism. Democrats don't oppose capitalism--we do want to make sure that the abuses of capitalism are kept under some kind of reasonable control. Frankly, I really have no idea what you are talking about when you accuse Kerry of being a Marxist. And I don't think you actually do either. If you want to convince me that you have a clue, then bring up a specific issue, and let's have at it. Me: Ignorance is such bliss. Following is a pre World War II document circulated to the communist party in the United States of America which outlines their activity over the last 80 years: A. Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, destroy their ruggedness. B. Get control of all means of publicity thereby: 1. Get people's minds off their government by focusing attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities. 2. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance. 3. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding them up to contempt, ridicule and obloquy. 4. Always preach true democracy, but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible. 5. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit, produce fear of inflation with rising prices and general discontent. 6. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorders and foster lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward such disorders. 7. By specious argument cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues, honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness. C. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view to confiscating them and leaving the population helpless. Now from a World Net daily news article by Hal Lindsey: In the aftermath of Election 2000, angry partisan Democrats vowed to do everything in their power to make the Bush presidency a failure and to defeat him in 2004 "by whatever means necessary." In the process, they've managed to undermine voter confidence in our election system to the degree that the State Department has asked the Europeans to monitor this election for fairness. They've managed to convince voters that the election isn't fair because the voting machines are suddenly too complicated for old people and minorities. There have been endless stories about Florida this year and how to avoid a "repeat of Election 2000" by improving the voting system. While nothing is idiot-proof, old people and minorities managed to elect Bill Clinton twice using the same equipment. It didn't need to be overhauled until it somehow misfired and elected George Bush instead. No matter how many times they recounted, George Bush still got more votes than Al Gore. Therefore, there must be something wrong with the voting equipment. Nothing appears to be above exploitation. John Kerry even dedicated a speech he delivered on Monday to the late actor Christopher Reeve. Kerry said he knew the "Superman" actor for about 15 years through family and dedication to the same causes, and said Reeve left him a long voice-mail on Saturday thanking him for campaigning on the possibilities of a cure for conditions like his. It had been originally reported that Reeve died on Sunday after slipping into a coma on Thursday following complications from treatment for a bed sore. After John Kerry's speech, reports of Reeve's death were changed to remove the reference to Thursday in order to make it possible for Reeve to call John Kerry and leave a long message for him on his answering machine on Saturday night. Evidently, Kerry didn't know about the "coma" part until after the speech, but his well-oiled damage-control team was already on it. A blogger on Free Republic provided one example of the "before and after" media manipulation that kept John Kerry from having another "Christmas in Cambodia" moment like the ones that keep coming up every time he tries to exploit the dead. And if exploitation, media manipulation and outright lies don't work, how about voter intimidation? GOP Chairman Marc Racicot issued, as part of a GOP press release, a copy of a letter he sent to the president of the AFL-CIO. As of yesterday morning, the only place you can read it is a website in Spain. In it, Racicot asked organized labor to end its campaign of violence against Bush-Cheney political offices and Bush supporters. Among the incidents cited by Racicot: A coordinated labor protest at more than a dozen campaign and party headquarters across the country. In one protest in Orlando, the office was vandalized and one campaign worker had their arm broken in the melee. In Canton, Ohio, a Bush-Cheney '04 staffer was forced to lock herself in an office while another break-in was in progress. Gunshots were fired into Bush-Cheney '04 offices in West Virginia, Florida and Tennessee, windows broken in West Virginia and campaign staffers threatened. In Wisconsin, a supporter of the president had a swastika burned into his front yard simply because he had a Bush-Cheney '04 lawn sign. Disinformation, voter fraud, organized violence, outright lies, exploitation and media manipulation. Those were the principle tools used by the Nazis to bring Hitler to power in 1933 Germany. Me Again: Now some more about Kerry: He has never attempted to distance his stand from that of the Communist Party Of the United States of America. Not during the Viet Nam conflict and not since. He never gave names, specific dates or specific places of US war crimes but with only innuendo attempted to implicate all US service men and never once ever criticized the communist in Viet Nam - ever. His efforts in behalf of the communist inspired the communist of North Viet Nam to erect a special memorial honoring Kerry. Twice he met with the Communist in Paris during peace talks - both times while still an officer of the US military and contrary to military law and while the US was still in conflict. The Kerry campaign while accusing Bush of keeping his military records secret have kept secret the military records of Kerry’s court martial following these events only disclosing a re-discharge in 2001. And Dan Rather has never made any comment to encourage Kerry disclosure. Let me also state that I am not a Republican - I left that party over criminal action taking place during the Nixon years. I believe if America had any idea what the Republican party was doing to America, the citizens of this country would drag the party heads into the streets and execute them. But for every evil the Republicans have done the Democrats have done 10. There is a reason no one knows Kerry political plans of socialized employment, health care, retirement and economic control. It is all part of the plan of Communism to end freedom and free enterprise in America. The Traveler

Traveler--now I KNOW you are cracked. In case you hadn't noticed, calling someone a Communist went out of vogue about 15 years ago. Get current dude! If Kerry is a Marxist, then Bush is a Nazi! Both characterizations are extreme distortions of reality. Up until one week ago the Communist Party listed Kerry as their Party choice for President at their website. A political problem I am sure. But you have not pointed out the difference between the Kerry positions and that of the Communist Party of the United States. In fact I can't tell the difference between your stand and that of the Communist Party. Why not do us all a favor and visit the site and tell us how you differ? Afraid to admit it? The Traveler

Perhaps the delusion Ray has over Bush being a good president is because Ray is comparing Bush to Bill Clinton (the most celebrated and documented liar since Hitler to ever be elected to power in the free world). Or maybe he is comparing the warped Bush to the even greater disaster, John Kerry. In that Kerry and his Marxist ideas (this including all other registered candidate’s platforms) is by choice the enemy of freedom and democracy , and most closely resembles the ideology of the Communist Party of America (which has sought for the destruction of freedom and democracy for more that 3/4 of this century. For reference you can visit the website of the Communist Party of America at <www.cpusa.org> If you do not think Kerry is a Marxist in support of Communist policy - please take the time to visit the Communist Party’s website and point out an article at that site, to which Kerry has an opposing opinion. I would like to believe that the communist have not penetrated the Democratic party to the extent that they could have one of their own rise to such power and run for president. At least visit and tell me who is freedom and democracy and the enemy of Communism - Bush or Kerry? The Traveler

How soon do we forget what is not advantageous to our political agenda. Following is a quote from Anthony Lake’s book “6 Nightmares”: *Iraq has declared that it possesses thousands of gallons of anthrax and botulism toxin, enough to wipe out the population of the Earth several times over. It also has four metric tons of VX-a nerve agent so deadly that a single drop can kill. Who is this Anthony Lake spewing such a lie about Iraq and WMD’s. I quote from his bio: Anthony Lake served as national security advisor to President Clinton from 1993 to 1996. He first joined the State Department in 1962, eventually serving as an aide to Henry Kissinger, and returned to the department in the Carter Administration. He is currently a professor at Georgetown University and lectures extensively across the country. How interesting that Anthony is not among the Democrats accusing President Bush of lying about WMD’s in Iraq. Interesting too that he was the leading expert (not a expert but the leading expert) of such things during the Clinton administration. I would also point out that in 1996 he was nominated by Clinton for head of the CIA, but the Republicans in the Senate blocked the nomination for strictly political reasons – Anthony upset over politics withdrew his name. Can anyone even think of the conservative Republicans placing politics over security of our nation’s citizens? - No more than the compassionate liberal Democrats would sacrifice the lives of innocent children for their politics. I would point out three things concerning Anthony’s declaration. First that he draws attention to the Biological and chemical WMD in Iraq after the first “Gulf War” when the UN was attempting to oversee the destruction of WMD’s in Iraq. Which brings us to the second point: There is not a single indication of the slightest shred of evidence of any attempts by Iraq to ever destroy any WMD’s or WMD production capability by the UN or anyone else. The third point concerns Iraq use of WMD’s on at least 3 separate occasions. When the above statement was made, Iraq had ample time to continue to produce even more WMD’s than were ever used. Even taking into account the Gulf war destroying WMD production capability there is still enough production time to more than replace any WMD’s that were known to have been used. In other words there was greater time to produce WMD’s after the last known use compared to the time needed to have produced them for use. The political question asked now in our current election environment - is why Bush lied about WMD’s in order to start the war – since none were found (not true because some – but very little – were found) in Iraq. But the problem behind this stupid claim of a Bush lie is that Bush did not hatch the lie about WMD’s – if it is a lie, Clinton would be the liar that planted it and cultivated it in his administration. If we can believe anything from the Clinton administration we can wonder tonight as we go to sleep => Since the Clinton administration said (and the Bush administration agreed – a rare thing in politics) Iraq had WMD’s sufficient to kill the population of the entire earth – SEVERAL TIMES OVER – And since no one seems to know what happened to any of the WMD’s (or for that matter even cares), could any or even the smallest fraction of these biological and chemical agents have found there way into the hands of organizations with desires to smuggle them into the USA for use against our population? And in full view of current politics – who’s fault will that be? Who is arguing that there is no possibility, what-so-ever, of any WMD’s from Iraq to have any connection to organizations intent on using them in the USA? They are asking you to bet you life and freedom on it in the upcoming election – divided on this issue mostly on party lines. Why the division now when it was once one of the few things agreed upon between the two previous administrations? I am not a fan of Bush or the Republican party – he is not a good president and the Republican party, as well as the Democratic Party, are nothing more that power brokers for those that delight in exercising power over citizens. But what I cannot understand is, in this question of national security – why is it that so many offer their freedom and life to those that claim there is no concern over the missing WMD’s from Iraq. Such stupidity is just too much of a bad example of blind politics and the core of how 9/11 could happen or be used or forgotten in favor of political agendas. But then Anthony and I are obviously misinformed in this matter. Dan Rather is a much better source to trust – He and other such types are careful guardians of truth and can be trusted to never misuse their standing to give false impressions to favor their political agendas. The Traveler

Snow: Can you name someone in congress that is not a millionair? The Traveler

Curvette: Thank you - I am pleased when someone that usually disagrees with me finds something to agree with. You are right - I have worked for years and it will never happen.The Traveler

Snow: What you seem to have missed is; currently only the idle rich can run for office especially at the national level. If you do not have 1 mil of your own money you have no chance in today's political system. But lets take someone running for county commission. Why would someone run for that office and spend 2 million of their own money? Because the county commission oversees zoning and the re-zoning of property can make land much more valuable (specially farm land). The process or re-zoning will make someone multi millionaires. Sometimes this is the primary reason someone seeks office or seeks to have connections for someone running for office. It is why someone will contribute large amounts of money - since there is no accountability in our current system the citizens have no idea what returns high contributors get for their contribution. Twenty years ago when I was a member and active with "Common Cause" the money received in campaigns had a ratio of about 100 to 1 for dollars contributed by non voting organizations compared to citizens - guess who gets represented. When I lived in Washington I was the state coordinator for the PTSA (Parent Teacher Student Association) with our lobbyist. I will tell you this - ever piece of legislation we asked for sponsorship was not only sponsored but passed exactly as we wanted. Usually on the first day of legislation. Anything we opposed was defeated. Not one exception. I will bet you cannot get anything more than a form letter from your representative. I know we live in a dream world but I believe the government should be of, by and for the people not political action committees. You are correct about one thing - most people I have encountered that are involved in the power of party politics think it is stupid to allow average citizens any say in government and do many things to keep the truth and power from the public. I once sat in a meeting when funds were hidden and changed to keep the public (especially opposition) from the possibility of criticism. Not because the funds had not been spent correctly but because it was not part of the original budget. There is a saying the if you want to know who has power in politics - follow the money. In today’s world money has a greater say than voters. On rare occupation grass routes movements will start out to make a difference but in every case I have seen the politics of money will eventually take over any political movement in this country. For years I have tried to find a way to take money out of politics and return the power to citizens. It may be stupid but that is how I feel and think. The Traveler

Introduction: In light of the many misleading political statements (kind way of saying lies). I am offering one man’s political views - my own. Our once great nation has abandoned principles for a corse of tyranny. Politics has forgotten freedoms and rights of citizens and become a battle ground for seizing power from the populace and forcing a minority agenda. I believe politics should define the legal means by which differing segments of the population deal with each other and their differences. I am aware that “the majority should have the majority say” is not without flaws but all other methods are in every way more destructive of rights and freedom in society. Corrupt politics: This is anything aimed ad bringing someone to political office or governing law to ratification under false or unsubstantiated premisses. Example: I believe President Bush should be voted out of office because he had an agenda of war with Iraq. This is a display of corrupt politics. It could be correct to say President Bush should not be president because of several official documents or sworn statements that prove he had an agenda of war with Iraq. (Just a side note - to produce forged documents or false statements should be a felony which should end forever all guilty parties from ever participating directly in any political process.) Campaign financing: I believe campaign financing is the single most corrupting influencing in American politics. In my mind the only way to turn away this corruption is to strictly enforce three new laws of campaign financing: One - no non voting entity can contribute money or disperse any information without contributing the same amount of money and same means of dispersing information to all candidates. This means that political action committees or businesses (including news agencies) cannot favor a candidate during the campaign process - only individuals registered to vote in the specific election. Two - No candidate can spend more of their own money on their campaign that any of the other candidates running for the same office. If they wish to use their own money above what other have committed it must be distributed equally among all candidates. Three - all contributions (amount and who contributed) must be made public before they can be used. Violation of these three laws would result in forfeiture of the candidate office or presentation or passage of supported measures. Representative Seniority: There is a pecking order in the halls of our representation that invites political underhandedness. It is called the seniority system. It determines who serves on what committees and what laws are presented and the form in which they are presented. It is at the core of how our government represents it citizens. I believe a change is necessary based on how the representative represents their constituent citizens. I believe seniority should be determined in the following manner: The percentage of votes actually cast for the candidate to all registered voters in the representative’s area or district. The representative with the highest ratio has their first choice of committees as chair. All representatives are selected in ranking order - regardless of party affiliation. This will insure that a representative represented those that vote for them. Compensation of Representatives: First off representatives should serve the public - not live off of them. I have a big problem with representatives making more than the people they represent. It has a tendency of making the representatives think they are more important than their constituents. I believe they should receive a stipend of no more than the average (within 10%) salary of their constituents and only while congress is in session. In addition they may receive housing in government supplied dorms or apartments comparable to housing supplied by the government for servicemen in the military. Also they should be able to eat for free in government cafeterias. There should be no retirement, gifts, junkets, perks or any kind of extra compensation for services. Government service should not be a profession. One exception of retirement could be offered to the president that should have two additional offers. One a lifetime privilege to government housing (on the same level as military servicemen) access to PX and compensation on the par of retired officers in the military. And no double dipping if they already have access to a government retirement program they get nothing extra. In summary I do not support any political party. I was raised Republican in a family that exerted great political influence. I have experienced first hand the evils of political corruption. We do not live in a free country. The worse of it is all the dirty political tricks that are paid for by the freedoms of citizens. The best way to spot corruption in politics is complete endorsement of one party and complete blame of the other. (See war thread for many examples). Welfare reform really means that more money will be collected from citizens and less money distributed to the needy. Social security is anything but secure and is so corrupt that if any other retirement program was run in a like manner our representatives would demand that the overseers of the program be convicted and sentenced to imprisonment. We have been so lied to by both parties about war, taxes, education, public services, and the role of government we have forgotten what freedom is or what a free citizen is. Every military conflict since World War II have been illegal wars undeclared by congress. No president has the right to attack anybody, or anything without a declaration of war. The meaning of war has become so meaningless and common that it is applied to efforts concerning poverty, drugs, crime and almost any public concern. The only result of war should be surrender or treaty. Any citizen aiding the enemy by protest or other action should be tried by military court for treason and executed if found guilty. But we no longer take war seriously - our wars have become political banter and complete disgrace. Education has become so political and subject to federal regulation that our teachers and system have become the worse of all other industrial nations on the planet. There is no one more responsible than the idiots that blame one party and praise the other. We are trading our freedoms for party membership - and both of the major parties intend to divide the country with such hatred that civil war may be the only solution. I am ashamed of our political partisans and extremist. The Traveler

What did Clinton do in Ksovo and Bosnia? – I thought it was the military? If it was such a grand success why is the US military still there and not the UN? Why did Clinton fire the commander that got our downed pilot out – was it because of the photos of the mass grave were caused by the side the president did not back? You tell me. Ya I know the commander went in against orders and it cost him his job – but then you don’t care – do you? All you want is someone other than a liberal to blame and a idiot like Clinton in office. Who cut the surveillance budget almost in half and cut off all the ground surveillance operatives? Why do you think the intelligence is such a mess? Who messed with it and broke it? And the aspirin factory was not in Ksovo or Bosnia that was bombed to turn attention away from what your flawless president was doing with interns. You tell me – why bomb an aspirin factory and kill innocent non-military peoples? Do you have any idea what a war crime and a war criminal is? We were not at war, there was no non compliance to anything, there was no threat and only CIA intelligence was used. Do you know why CIA intelligence and not military intelligence was used? Of course you don’t you don’t even know or care where the aspirin factory was or you would not defend the idiot. Pres Bush is not a good president – he does not belong in office and needs to be voted out but he is not the worse president of recent history. Not even close. If you cannot see it – what kind of an idiot would put at risk the entire nation for sex with someone he really did not even care about – the same kind of idiot that would hold up everybody for more than an hour at LAX airport over a hair cut? And you will defend this nut case? The Traveler