The Creation.

[Justice]

Let's start with verse 1. I'm going to quote Genesis, so the non-members in the forum can participate, but let's not forget about the other 2 accounts we have.

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There is no greater division between Christian faiths about any single scripture than the myriad of beliefs in the world about the main words in the opening verse of the Bible. If people can not agree on the 5 main words in the first verse, it will be impossible to agree with nearly every scripture that follows.

1. beginning

2. God

3. created

4. heaven

5. earth

It's a given that people with different faiths, from different backgrounds will view 1-3 very differently. Most of what we need to understand each other on are in the first 3 words.

I'll make a general definition according to the LDS faith:

1. beginning: This can be understood to mean the beginning of the planning and actual creation of this earth. We are told through modern revelation that there have been an innumerable (to man) amount of worlds created. But, that this account pertains to the creation of this earth we live on. It is not describing the creation of the first man ever, but the first man to inhabit this earth.

2. God: This is the premortal Jesus Christ, and His name is Jehova. He will later be born in the flesh to Mary, and Atone for the sins of mankind, and reverse the effects of the fall.

3. created: This means that things were organized or formed from existing matter or material, and not willed or wished into existence from nothing. Joseph Smith once said, "If there ever was a time when there was nothing, there would still be nothing." This is a different way of saying "you can't get something from nothing."

Now, for 4 and 5 (heaven and earth) we will leave to the scriptures to define as we move through the first chapter.

Any thoughts about the first verse, especially the first 3 words on my list? Please don't move ahead, it can get confusing if we move back and forth.

[Snow]

Why does Genesis have two differing accounts of the creation?

[Justice]

Moses is responsible for the account of the creation in Genesis. We can only assume that it once was very much like, if not exactly like, the one we have in the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. This is a prime example of how things have been lost and/or changed in the Bible over the thousands of years it has existed in written form.

So, to look for answers to your question we need to read the account of creation in Moses. Moses outlines 2 creations, the spiritual and the physical. It is the general consensus that the creation account in Genesis attempts to do the same, or once did. But, since many people have interpreted and hand re-copied the Bible for thousands of years, we are left with what we now have. Many of these people had good intentions but simply did not understand the details Moses tried to explain. Plus, what makes it even more challenging is that many of the men who tried to interpret the account, especially during the Dark Ages, were uninspired. That is most critical.

To get an idea of how detailed Genesis once was, read the Joseph Smith translation of Genesis. The prophet was not able to finish his work of translating the Bible from revelation, but we can get an idea from what he actually did do of how much might be missing or changed.

It's important to point out for non-members that just because we believe the Bible has not been translated correctly over the years, does not mean that we believe it does not contain the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ... because we believe that it does. We simply believe it's just not as clear and concise as it once was in it's original form. In any case, one can unlock the mysteries of the Bible through prayer and personal revelation. If we are to understand the things of God this is required anyway, regardless of the condition of the current Bible. This is part of the reason, according to our belief, for the additional scripture that was given to man in these days.

[Guest tomk]

Something I want to point-out.

There can even be confusion about parts of the Book of Mormon. In fact, the Bible and other scripture compliments the Book of Mormon, and vice-versa.

It is not scripture, alone, which clarifies or proves ANYTHING, including the creation account. If we are attempting to do so in this thread, we'd better stop before we get started. It is the Holy Ghost which takes the words we read and confirms their truth to us, as well as provides the additional insight and connective tissue between other verses in order to provide the "big picture." Without the Holy Ghost, this conversation is sunk.

By all means - forge ahead. But I encourage each participant to appeal to God in heaven for understanding as the discussion evolves. Do not look to man for what only God can provide.

Great topic, Justice!

[Justice]

I'll post this scripture that might help guide us through this discussion:

Moses 1:

27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.

28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.

29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.

30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

We don't get a conversation like this in the Bible. However, if we have perspective, we know that God appeared to Moses and they spoke. In the account in the Bible where Moses "meets" God, it shows that he is a bit skeptical about appearing before Pharaoh. I can't think of anything that would give him confidence like a vision of the creation to show him God's power. And, being that Moses wrote the account of the creation in the Bible, it seems logical and right that a conversation like the one ablove happened. It just "tastes" good.

For those of you who are non-members, please do as Tom has suggested and participate in this discussion prayerfully, with an open mind. In fact, I think before we're done, we all will need to do the same. :)

By the way, we really only need to go through and discuss the first 10 verses in Genesis, the rest is easy. So, if you really want to participate, I suggest you read the first 10 verses in Genesis over and over and ask for His help to understand.

I plan to let the words in the scriptures dictate the discussion. The verses themselves set the scene and define most of the terms we will need. What we need now is for everyone to give their thoughts about the 3 words in verse 1.

[Justice]

Back to Genesis and the first verse:

In Moses 1:36 we see what Moses inquired of the Lord:

...Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

Do you see where he received a direct answer to a direct question?

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This might help us understand more about why we have the details we do, while many things are left unanswered. God revealed to Moses the answer to his question.

But, as I said, the definitions to these things are clearly laid out in the first 10 verses of Genesis. What is not clearly laid out are the first three important words: "beginning, God, and created."

Any thoughts?

[Guest tomk]

I don't have much to say about the first 3 words in verse 1.

I will say that I don't think God thinks about "beginnings" and "ends" like we do.

Time and again I see people getting hung-up about "beginnings" and "ends" of creation, of time, of heaven, of whatever.

I think a proper understanding of "beginning" can be had by looking at the opposite. Or rather, in looking at TIME measured by man vs TIME measured by God.

8 Now whether there is more than one atime appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.

So -- in this context -- "in the beginning" refers to a creative period -- not THE beginning...for there is no beginning! By the same token, there is no end!

That's all I got for now.

Tom

[Ankh]

Greetings Justice,

Let's start with verse 1. I'm going to quote Genesis, so the non-members in the forum can participate, but let's not forget about the other 2 accounts we have.

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There is no greater division between Christian faiths about any single scripture than the myriad of beliefs in the world about the main words in the opening verse of the Bible. If people can not agree on the 5 main words in the first verse, it will be impossible to agree with nearly every scripture that follows.

1. beginning

2. God

3. created

4. heaven

5. earth

It's a given that people with different faiths, from different backgrounds will view 1-3 very differently. Most of what we need to understand each other on are in the first 3 words.

I'll make a general definition according to the LDS faith:

1. beginning: This can be understood to mean the beginning of the planning and actual creation of this earth. We are told through modern revelation that there have been an innumerable (to man) amount of worlds created. But, that this account pertains to the creation of this earth we live on. It is not describing the creation of the first man ever, but the first man to inhabit this earth.

Excellent point.

2. God: This is the premortal Jesus Christ, and His name is Jehova. He will later be born in the flesh to Mary, and Atone for the sins of mankind, and reverse the effects of the fall.

Justice... have you ever noticed in the Hebrew translation of this first verse that there is a "gap" of translation between the word "God" and "the heavens?" Example...

"In the beginning created God [ ] the heavens and the earth."

Now that "gap" of translation [ ] has the two Hebrew letters "Alef & Tav" which is the "first" and "last" letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Who is the "Alef" (first) and "Tav" (last)? Isaiah 44:6/Revelation 1:17. Could this "gap" after "God" and "the heavens" be pointing to and identifying who the creator was? "In the beginning created God~ [first and last/YHVH]~ the heavens and the earth."? Just a thought.

3. created: This means that things were organized or formed from existing matter or material, and not willed or wished into existence from nothing. Joseph Smith once said, "If there ever was a time when there was nothing, there would still be nothing." This is a different way of saying "you can't get something from nothing."

Oh how many in Christiandom believe and accept that creation was from "nothing"

Now, for 4 and 5 (heaven and earth) we will leave to the scriptures to define as we move through the first chapter.

Any thoughts about the first verse, especially the first 3 words on my list? Please don't move ahead, it can get confusing if we move back and forth.

Enjoying the study Justice

Ankh

[Traveler]

#1: Beginning. It is my understanding that a variant translation of this is “When G-d first established his covenant with man”. This would lead us to understand that Genesis is not about the beginning of time. The implication that this is the point of a beginning of all things is problematic. It would mean that there is nothing eternal and that eternal is a false concept – because there was a beginning before which there was nothing.

#2: G-d. There is much more to this than most Christians (especially traditional Trinitarian Christians) seem to be willing to deal with. For example; most make transitive of the logic that G-d is the creator or in other words that the creator is G-d which defined G-d in terms of the creation. Genesis deconstructs this false and heretical notion. The point made in Genesis is that G-d was in existence and had defined who he was as G-d prior to the creation. This is a most important notion and cannot and should not be misunderstood – Genesis is crystal clear concerning this notion. It cannot be argued that G-d was G-d prior to creation if nothing existed for G-d to be G-d over or to. What Christians worship as G-d is not and was not ever a G-d of nothing but if there was nothing prior to the; what we understand as “The Beginning” in Genesis, then G-d was a “nothing” G-d and is not the same G-d yesterday, today and forever but is a G-d that changes the very heart and core of what we understand of G-d.

#3: Created. Again Genesis is very problematic with science of our modern era as some try to interpret Genesis. From science we have learned that matter is not the simple physical that many in traditional Trinitarian Christianity have attempted to define. Einstein gave us understanding and knowledge that matter and energy are different states of the same thing {E=m(C*C)}. With an infinite source of power available to G-d – he could transform energy he has in his infinite reserve into the matter of the universe – which is, BTW, a very good explanation of beyond the horizon of the Big Bang theory.

#4: Heaven. This cannot be an explanation of the Kingdom over which G-d resides for that definition of things cannot be created because for that there can be no beginning. If there was then a beginning that G-d himself and his existence would have beginning. The heaven referred to in the Genesis creation epoch is what we know of as the universe – comprised of many stars, galaxies and a great variety of things we have yet to become aware of.

#5: Earth. This is also a most problematic notion based on modern science. To demonstrate the problem let we ask one simple question – Are dinosaurs a creature of Earth? The problem in science is that dinosaurs were too big and heavy to have existed with current earth gravity. Structural analysis of the very large dinosaurs indicates that their bone structure could not have supported their mass and mobility to allow existence in current earth gravity. I am not trying to prove any notion of creation or evolution – just state a simple fact. At what point the earth became the earth as we now know it is not addressed in Genesis. This problem or question is avoided in most religious discussions concerning the creation of the earth.

Many Christians are having problems with their traditional notions and the advances of science. Someday the “earth” with be filled with knowledge but until then one of the greatest difficulties man faces in his relationship with G-d is overcoming and incredible amount of ignorance generating misguided faith brought about by poor understanding of science and scripture. I am grateful for the LDS notion that G-d has not yet revealed the wholeness of creation – we need to have faith to learn more.

The Traveler

[Gillebre]

check out a book titled, "Earth - In The Beginning". It's quite extraordinary, and explains very well the creation story.

It cites all it's sources, including scriptures and general authorities.

[Justice]

Awesome. I'm anxious to move on to verse 2. But, before we do, I'd like to ask a question.

Do you think God actually created anything in verse 1? Or, is it like a declaration of what He is about to do and explain?

Think about this question, and answer if you like, while we move on to verse 2.

[Justice]

Genesis 1:

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This verse can be divided and discussed in 3 different parts...

1: And the earth was without form, and void;

2: and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

3: And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

So, we'll divide them and offer comments on them separately. And, by the way, the other 2 accounts are worded differently, but they teach the same events as in Genesis... perhaps even more clearly.

First:

1: And the earth was without form, and void;

I believe the later text of chapter 1 offers some clues as to what this might have been. So, before we dive into this one, let's discuss the other parts of verse 2. We'll even get more clues to "without form and void" later in verses 3-10.

2: and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

The first question that comes to my mind is, "The deep what?"

Any speculation?

I have spoken to some who say this refers to deep and black space, since nothing has been created yet. It might be reaching too much here, but I don't beleive this is the case. The words "face" and "the" in front of deep do not paint a picture of space to me. Deep space doesn't have a face, really, and is never really referred to as "the deep." If I didn't know better, it sounds like it is referring to a huge body of water like an ocean, or much larger. Water has a face, and is frequently called "the deep."

In fact, I draw some of that conclusion from the very next statement in the same verse, which I believe is speaking about the same thing...

3: And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I believe God is speaking about "deep waters" that have a face and are dark because no light has been created yet. The part that takes prayer and the spirit is that, in answer to my question in the last post, is that God has not created anything yet. He has not spoken the words that are headed by, "And God said..." so frequently throughout the creative texts.

Backing up to verse 1, if indeed God is answering Moses' question about how the heaven and earth were created, there is no answer given for where, or if, matter itself began. God is answering Moses and telling Him where creation of this heaven and earth began, and it began with this water, spoken of in verse 2, that was present when God started creating. Later verses confirm that the water was present when God began, and that it was not part of what He is speaking about creating in the account of "The Creation."

Now, whether or not God created the water first, or it was just there in some form when He began, the text does not say. But, I think it is more than telling that scientists believe that life begins in the water. This is where I beleive the scientists are right on track with the Bible.

Now, backing up to the first part of the verse...

1: And the earth was without form, and void;

...if, at this point, there were no "heaven or earth," but only water, it makes perfect sense how the "heaven and earth" would be without form and void.

I believe the answer to whether or not matter existed before the creation of this earth is very apparent in the text of the creation. We plainly see that God has not began the creation process here, yet, since we are told His Spirit moved upon the face of the water. As he "moved" in location to create, the water was present. I believe that this answers the question, "Did God create this earth from nothing?" The equivocal answer within the text is no.

Whether you believe God created the earth from nothing or not, you must see the text shows He did not create the water, and He used the water as the basis for creating this earth. So, either the water is part of an earlier creation, not described at all in Genesis, or Joseph Smith was right when He said, "matter is eternal and cannot be destroyed or created."

Let the real discussion begin. :)

[lostnfound]

Why does Genesis have two differing accounts of the creation?

i am assuming you mean chapter 1 and 2 correct? They are actually not two diff accounts but one from different angles.

If yes they are the short and long story..read it again and look at it like this.. The camera is in a zoom out position and then it zooms in on adam and eve..

[lostnfound]

Let's start with verse 1. I'm going to quote Genesis, so the non-members in the forum can participate, but let's not forget about the other 2 accounts we have.

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

There is no greater division between Christian faiths about any single scripture than the myriad of beliefs in the world about the main words in the opening verse of the Bible. If people can not agree on the 5 main words in the first verse, it will be impossible to agree with nearly every scripture that follows.

1. beginning

2. God

3. created

4. heaven

5. earth

It's a given that people with different faiths, from different backgrounds will view 1-3 very differently. Most of what we need to understand each other on are in the first 3 words.

I'll make a general definition according to the LDS faith:

1. beginning: This can be understood to mean the beginning of the planning and actual creation of this earth. We are told through modern revelation that there have been an innumerable (to man) amount of worlds created. But, that this account pertains to the creation of this earth we live on. It is not describing the creation of the first man ever, but the first man to inhabit this earth.

2. God: This is the premortal Jesus Christ, and His name is Jehova. He will later be born in the flesh to Mary, and Atone for the sins of mankind, and reverse the effects of the fall.

3. created: This means that things were organized or formed from existing matter or material, and not willed or wished into existence from nothing. Joseph Smith once said, "If there ever was a time when there was nothing, there would still be nothing." This is a different way of saying "you can't get something from nothing."

Now, for 4 and 5 (heaven and earth) we will leave to the scriptures to define as we move through the first chapter.

Any thoughts about the first verse, especially the first 3 words on my list? Please don't move ahead, it can get confusing if we move back and forth.

Have you ever done a word study on that word created in vs 1??? Bara.. created out of nothing.

[lostnfound]

The Bible teaches in Genesis 1:1 (with Hebrew 11:3) that God created everything out of nothing, "ex- nihilo" (a creation from nothing). The Hebrew word (bara, word #1254 in Strong) that is translated "created" in Genesis 1:1 is only used for creations by God. In summary it means a creation out of nothing. God spoke, and what was not, was.

I had no idea that joseph Smith taught matter can not be created or destroyed...and yet in Genesis that is exactly what is happening it is being created.

[Justice]

No, I do not believe matter is being brought into existence from nothing. The text does not teach that, if you read it closely. I have done word studies on the Hebrew word "bara," or "baurau." There are a LOT of conflicting opinions on what this word means. The fact is, it did not mean "out of nothing" when the text was written.

Here is what Joseph Smith had to say...

He told the Saints that the word create comes from the Hebrew word baurau [bara], which means to organize, and that “God had materials to organize the world out of chaos … [which] may be organized and reorganized but not destroyed.”

From: The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: The Godhead, Mankind, and the Creation By Donald Q. Cannon, Larry E. Dahl, and John W. Welch... and can be found at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Most of the sources I searched agreed with this definition, but there were a few that did not. Most of the people who claim it means "out of nothing" seemed to be twisting it to mean what they thought because they did not tell the whole story behind the word, and did not go back far enough. The meaning of it today is more in line with what you propose, but that is only because people misunderstand the creation and think "it must mean out of nothing since that's how the creation was." Their close-mindedness has forced them to alter the meaning of the word over time, and they have shot themselves in the foot as a result.

The sources that actually discuss the word that attemp to define it as it pre-dates the modern era all agree that baurau did mean "to organnize" in the ancient language.

Besides, show me in the text where water is being created, and then we can have a discussion about it. As of now, I don't see where all matter is being discussed, just "heaven and earth." If you show me where the water was created, we can begin to think about "all matter" instead of just heaven and earth.

You will see as this discussion moves forward, if you keep an open mind, the creation of "heaven and earth" are plainly laid out and defined by God Himself. The creation of other "matter" such as water, is never mentioned.

[Justice]

This is why I felt it important to decide whether or not God had actually created anything in the first verse, before we began the discussion.

If He did, and that is actually where He "willed" matter into existence, then why does He go on to describe how He created "the heaven and earth?"

And, if He did create the heaven and earth out of nothing in verse 1, why does He then go on to organize and form it? He said after verse 1 that it was void and without form. He is powerful enough to bring matter into existence from nothing, but not powerful enough to bring it into existence already formed and organized?

I'm not making fun of your beliefs, but trying to look at it logically. I don't think God would go out of His way to make things harder or take longer.

And, if He willed matter into existence, all at once, why did it take Him 6 days, or time periods, to accomplish it? Would that have not been instant, as has been an accepted belief through other Christian churches?

The text just doesn't add up with the "willed into existence" belief held by most of Christianity today. It was a belief derived from uninspired people during the Dark Ages who explained it the only way they could, which is to not explain it at all.

If you slowly read the text of the first 10 verses, and participate with an open mind, you will see the text spelling it out clearly.

As I said, there are going to be many views and many interpretations, but I am attempting to lead a discussion about the text itself, not about common beliefs. We will use beliefs held that support the text. So, simply show me where water was also created and then I can move closer to the understanding that your belief is actually based on the text, and not tradition.

[Justice]

I wasn't going to ask this, but I think it might be an important question for some to see, even if it can't be answered.

If God created all matter out of nothing, meaning matter did not exist before, and God existed forever, what made Him change His mind about things as they were? And, why didn't He discover that He could have created matter, and had a better creation, before He did? Isn't God perfect and unchanging?

Again, it doesn't make sense that God would decide "there is a better way" than things currently were, and that caused Him to bring a physical universe into existence so He could make life forms to worship Him forever... and punish the ones that didn't.

No, it doesn't make sense at all.

The only thing that makes sense, if God is all-knowing and all-seeing, is that things have always been the way they are now, so there was nothing to change. He did not bring about an instant change because He did not like the way things were. No, this is how they have always been, namely worlds to create and populate with His children.

For this discussion to mean anything, you have to open your mind to new possibilities and understandings. For the sake of this discussion, pretend that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that his words are true. Pretend he actually saw what Moses saw and understands how the text and words were originally meant. Otherwise, all this will be is a battle of opinions, just like every other discussion about the creation that has taken place on forums all over the world.

[Traveler]

The Bible teaches in Genesis 1:1 (with Hebrew 11:3) that God created everything out of nothing, "ex- nihilo" (a creation from nothing). The Hebrew word (bara, word #1254 in Strong) that is translated "created" in Genesis 1:1 is only used for creations by God. In summary it means a creation out of nothing. God spoke, and what was not, was.

I had no idea that joseph Smith taught matter can not be created or destroyed...and yet in Genesis that is exactly what is happening it is being created.

So you believe that prior to the "creation" that G-d was a "nothing" G-d meaning a G-d of nothing?

The Traveler

[lilered]

Comments:

1. beginning - If one would jump ahead to Moses 3:5, the Lord explains it quite well.

He created all things of which I have spoken spiritually, before they were created naturally upon the face of the earth.

This includes all things, I.E. Fish, animals, etc.. It means the whole chapter of Genesis concerning the creation (organizing) of earth, animals, plants, and humans. They were first created spiritually, then brought to this sphere and created natuarally (temporal). also DC 29:32

3. created really comes from the Hebrew word which means to organize. Therefore, God is explaing his power of organization. The spiritual creation took 6 days or phases if you will.

The 1st Chapter of Genesis is dealing with the spirtual creation of the earth and the placing of spirit plants and animals upon it.

Summation: It would appear that God populates a new planet simply by tranplanting parent stock from some older planet to the new one. While we do not understand how he does it, we do know that he similiar transferred the entire city of Enoch, the people of Melchizedek, John The Baptist, and the 3 Nephites.

[Justice]

Most of what is left in Genesis is the physical creation. Remember in the spiritual creation man was created first, and in the physical creation man was created last.

[Justice]

I'm going to post the next 3 verses because I have no comment on how this happened. To my knowledge, we are not given specifics, just clues.

Genesis 1:

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

What we can learn from these verses is that God spoke, it happened, then He named His creation. This is consistent with the rest of the text. This is evidence He did not create anything in verses 1 and 2. This is very critical when you try to understand where the water came from.

I'll post the next bit tomorrow after work.

[Guest tomk]

"God spoke, and it happened"

To what was He speaking? And did it have a choice as to whether or not to obey?

[THIRDpersonviewer]

If you read it in conjuction with Abraham 3:24. (the rest is just a little context)

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

So, as regards to light. What is light, or truth or knowledge? It is an intelligence of some form that, according to the 93 section of the Doctrine and Covenants, is independent upon the sphere that it is placed.

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

The way I see it. God was in one place and looked to an area of the universe that he wanted to have an Earth. There he organized or placed or established the laws that would rule it. Spiritual and physical. God has the power to organize intelligence. The truth or law had to be established first anyways. We know this through the 88 section of D&C where it talks about Law. To abide the Celestial kingdom, we must first abide the Law. To gain a blessing we must first abide the law. To get a fruit we must first abide the law.

As I see it. That is what the creations that follow after are. They are fruits of the Law.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

"God spoke, and it happened"

To what was He speaking? And did it have a choice as to whether or not to obey?

In light of what I just wrote. I would say that he was speaking to the intelligences and light. And since He has all might and all power and all dominion, He has the capacity to make intelligences(infants in light and truth) advance until they can adequately make choices for themselves.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Or my speculation on the matter.