People of Hagoth

[japacific]

Are the Polynesian people descendants of Lehi?

[zenoxman]

Well, what do you already know about Polynesians?

[japacific]

I don't think they are. I'm just wondering if there is any official doctrine on the matter.

[KosherXMorg]

from LDS.org

“Is there any reference in scripture or other sources of information that tells where Hagoth and his ships, referred to in Alma 63, went?”

Dale C. LeCheminant, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1979, 14–15

Answer/Brother Dale C. LeCheminant , Ph.D.

That is a very interesting question. The passage that gives rise to the question is in the last chapter of Alma in the Book of Mormon, where three years in the period of the judges are briefly characterized in sparse descriptions of a few events and people. And the story of Hagoth is one of these. In the 37th year of the reign of the judges, a northward movement of some Book of Mormon people began. Part of this migration was that of some sea-traveling people under the direction of Hagoth, apparently an adventuresome, gifted craftsman, described as “an exceedingly curious man,” who skillfully built a large ship, equipped it, and sent it with many people “into the west sea” on a “course northward.” After this ship returned the next year, Hagoth “built other ships,” perhaps because of the favorable report of those who had returned, and many more emigrants sailed northward with him and were never heard of again. Presumably no report of their destination was known by the writer of this account, for he simply remarks of the ship’s course “and whither she did go we know not.” Now that is the concise but entire scriptural account of the curious Hagoth, master shipbuilder.

As a thoughtful reader—such as the one to whom this question occurred—lingers over this passage, he comes to wonder upon the fate of this expedition, to become curious about Hagoth as perhaps Hagoth himself was about what lay northward in the sea. I see other cryptic accounts in the Book of Mormon that cause the same curiosity: When Alma goes off and is not heard of again, we wonder what happened to him. (See Alma 45:18.) And when Nephi leaves his people never to be seen again, we ponder his disappearance. (See 3 Ne. 1:3.) Wonderment is a great and natural human response to the unknown. It drives us to seek answers! Alas though, in the case of musing over Hagoth’s destiny, our curiosity cannot be satisfied with facts. The scripture is silent and other sources are of slight help.

Another human inclination, often companion to wonderment, especially when wonderment cannot be satisfied with information, is that of speculation—an effort to give some resolution to difficult questions by resorting to the possible or probable. This is the kind of “putting two and two together” approach used by our serious researching students of the Book of Mormon, who really are in the same position as we curious, serious readers. Since they have little more to rely on than we do, they too resort to speculation. Some of these publishing scholars consider the possibility that many of the seafaring expeditionaries such as Hagoth’s group reached the region we now call the United States of America, and others reached the Polynesian islands. (See Sidney B. Sperry, Book of Mormon Compendium, [Deseret Book Co., 1972], p. 369.) But these writers are appropriately guarded in reporting their surmise about the fate of Hagoth and his company and righty qualify their theory with such terms as probable, possibility, matter of conjecture, and tradition. And this all to their scholarly credit, for the theories are still speculation as far as scientists are concerned and unsettled as far as the prophets are concerned, since they have not seen fit to comment on the matter. Several have stated that the Polynesians are descendants of Lehi, but we have no comments from them on the fate of Hagoth. So we curious readers are left to our human wonderment in considering just what did happen to that adventurous, talented, and curious Hagoth with his brave northward-bound Nephites. Some day, perhaps, we shall know their story. For now we may rest assured in the thought that it isn’t a matter of great moment to settle such issues that arise because of the sketchiness of some passages of the scripture, tempting as it might be to do otherwise.

[Canuck Mormon]

from LDS.org

“Is there any reference in scripture or other sources of information that tells where Hagoth and his ships, referred to in Alma 63, went?”

Dale C. LeCheminant, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1979, 14–15

Answer/Brother Dale C. LeCheminant , Ph.D.

That is a very interesting question. The passage that gives rise to the question is in the last chapter of Alma in the Book of Mormon, where three years in the period of the judges are briefly characterized in sparse descriptions of a few events and people. And the story of Hagoth is one of these. In the 37th year of the reign of the judges, a northward movement of some Book of Mormon people began. Part of this migration was that of some sea-traveling people under the direction of Hagoth, apparently an adventuresome, gifted craftsman, described as “an exceedingly curious man,” who skillfully built a large ship, equipped it, and sent it with many people “into the west sea” on a “course northward.” After this ship returned the next year, Hagoth “built other ships,” perhaps because of the favorable report of those who had returned, and many more emigrants sailed northward with him and were never heard of again. Presumably no report of their destination was known by the writer of this account, for he simply remarks of the ship’s course “and whither she did go we know not.” Now that is the concise but entire scriptural account of the curious Hagoth, master shipbuilder.

As a thoughtful reader—such as the one to whom this question occurred—lingers over this passage, he comes to wonder upon the fate of this expedition, to become curious about Hagoth as perhaps Hagoth himself was about what lay northward in the sea. I see other cryptic accounts in the Book of Mormon that cause the same curiosity: When Alma goes off and is not heard of again, we wonder what happened to him. (See Alma 45:18.) And when Nephi leaves his people never to be seen again, we ponder his disappearance. (See 3 Ne. 1:3.) Wonderment is a great and natural human response to the unknown. It drives us to seek answers! Alas though, in the case of musing over Hagoth’s destiny, our curiosity cannot be satisfied with facts. The scripture is silent and other sources are of slight help.

Another human inclination, often companion to wonderment, especially when wonderment cannot be satisfied with information, is that of speculation—an effort to give some resolution to difficult questions by resorting to the possible or probable. This is the kind of “putting two and two together” approach used by our serious researching students of the Book of Mormon, who really are in the same position as we curious, serious readers. Since they have little more to rely on than we do, they too resort to speculation. Some of these publishing scholars consider the possibility that many of the seafaring expeditionaries such as Hagoth’s group reached the region we now call the United States of America, and others reached the Polynesian islands. (See Sidney B. Sperry, Book of Mormon Compendium, [Deseret Book Co., 1972], p. 369.) But these writers are appropriately guarded in reporting their surmise about the fate of Hagoth and his company and righty qualify their theory with such terms as probable, possibility, matter of conjecture, and tradition. And this all to their scholarly credit, for the theories are still speculation as far as scientists are concerned and unsettled as far as the prophets are concerned, since they have not seen fit to comment on the matter. Several have stated that the Polynesians are descendants of Lehi, but we have no comments from them on the fate of Hagoth. So we curious readers are left to our human wonderment in considering just what did happen to that adventurous, talented, and curious Hagoth with his brave northward-bound Nephites. Some day, perhaps, we shall know their story. For now we may rest assured in the thought that it isn’t a matter of great moment to settle such issues that arise because of the sketchiness of some passages of the scripture, tempting as it might be to do otherwise.

In not so many words, No. People can speculate all they want, but there is nothing "official" that I have seen.

[japacific]

What about the words of the modern prophets declaring that they are the people of Hagoth?

[Canuck Mormon]

What about the words of the modern prophets declaring that they are the people of Hagoth?

If you make a statement like above, please back it up with references. What modern porphets? What talks? Given when?

[pam]

Yes please provide references. Don't throw out questions unless you have a reference that we can look at. Thanks.

[pam]

Actually I had just found the same article that Kosher posted above on lds.org. It clearly states there that all is speculation and there is nothing official on it. I would agree with Kosher's answer above.

[Palerider]

What about the words of the modern prophets declaring that they are the people of Hagoth?

when you first came here and posted you acted like you did not know very much about the church....even for someone who served a mission....now you are telling us there is official doctrine about something....I am asking cause you have me confused....:)

[japacific]

This is the page I was looking at with quotes from the prophets.

Book of Mormon and Polynesians

[Traveler]

Just thought I would throughout the possibility of the Japanese connection to Hagoth. This is for those that have some understanding of Japanese history.

The Traveler

[goofball]

From what I have heard in the past and then read those quotes from the link you submitted I would say yes that the Maori people are decendents of Hagoth. Having spent time amongst many Maoris they agree with that statement