The Great White God

[hethathathears]

THE GREAT WHITE GOD QUETZALCOATL

IS THE ONE AND THE SAME AS JESUS CHRIST

THE BOOK OF MORMON TEACHES THAT JESUS CAME OVER TO THE AMERICAS AFTER HE WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. THE NATIVES OF MESO AMERICA ALSO HAD A BELIEF IN A GREAT WHITE GOD. BY A CLOSE COMPARISION, WE CAN SEE THAT THEY ARE BOTH JESUS CHIRST, AND THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE AMERICAN CONTINENT ARE REALLY THE OTHER SHEEP THAT JESUS WAS REFURING TO WHEN HE SAID,

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. John 10:16

BELOW IS A LIST OF COMPARISIONS BETWEEN JESUS CHRIST AND QUETZALCOATL. REFRENCES ARE MADE TO THE BOOK OF MORMON AND ALSO TO NON-MORMON HISTORIANS WHO REPORT THEIR FINDING ABOUT QUETZALCOATL.

1- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALCOATL WERE RECOGNIZED AS CREATOR OF ALL THINGS (MOSIAH 4:2, Saenz 1962:19,40)

2- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALCOATL WERE BORN OF VIRGINS (ALMA 7:10, GANUZ 95)

3- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALCOATL ARE DESCRIBED AS BEING WHITE AND

BEARDED AND AS WEARING A WHITE ROBE. (3 NEPHI 11:8, TORQUEMADA 47)

4- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL PERFORMED MIRACLES. (3 NEPHI 26:15

SEJOURNE 136-137)

5- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL TAUGHT THE ORDINANCE OF BAPTISM. (3 NEPHI 11:23, IRWIN 1963:170)

6- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL PROPHESIED OF FUTURE EVENTS. (IXTLILXOCHITL 40, MATT 24)

7- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL WERE UNIVERSAL AS OPPOSED TO JUST BEING

RECOGNIZED AS LOCAL GODS. (3 NEPHI 16:1, SEJOURNE 1962)

8- A GREAT DESTRUCTION WAS ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH CHRIST AND QUETAZLCOAT

AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME PERIOD IN HISTORY. (3 NEPHI 8:5, IXTLILXOCHITL 40)

9- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL SENT OUT DESCIPLES TO PREACH THEIR WORD. (3 NEPHI 12:1, WHIRTH 1978:55)

10- THE CROSS WAS A SYMBOL TO BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL. (3 NEPHI 27:14, IRWIN 1963:165)

11- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL PROMISED THEY WOULD COME A SECOND TIME. (2 NEPHI 6:14, SAHAGUN 1:40)

12- A NEW STAR WAS ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL. (3 NEPHI 1:21, ANALES DE CAUHTITLAN 7)

14- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL HAD PRINTS IN THEIR HANDS. (3 NEPHI 11:14, Ixtlilxochilt 41)

15- BOTH CHRIST AND QUETZALOATL WERE CONSIDERED COMELY IN APPEARANCE.

AND OF A SERIOUS DISPOSION. (ISA 53:2, Mosiah 14:2, Ixtlilxochitl 45)

Another interesting point that deals with Jesus Christ and Quetzalcoatl is the fact that Quetzalcoatl means feathered serpent or snake. It has commonly held that the symbol for Satan is the snake, because of the garden of Eden. However, in the Book of Mormon, the serpent is a symbol of Christ. This symbol is couched in Old Testament history and recorded in the Book of Numbers. The Children of Israel were residing in the wilderness, being plagued with poisonous serpents, Moses prayed to the Lord for his people. The Lord instructed Moses to make a bronze serpent and attach it to a pole. He then promised Moses that anyone looking upon that serpent made of brass, after having been bitten by a poisonous serpent, would live. (Numbers 21:6-9) Nephi, the son of Helaman in the Book of Mormon, provides an explanation of the meaning of the brazen serpent Moses lifted up on a pole.

AS HE LIFTED UP THE BRAZEN SERPENT IN THE WILDERNESS, EVEN SO SHALL HE

BE LIFTED UP WHO SHOULD COME. AND AS MANY AS SHOULD LOOK UPON THAT

SERPENT SHOULD LIVE, EVEN SO AS MANY AS SHOULD LOOK UPON THE SON OF

GOD WITH FAITH, HAVING A CONTRITE HEART, MIGHT LIVE, EVEN UNTO THAT LIFE

WHICH IS ETERNAL. (HELAMAN 8:14-15) WRITTEN ABOUT 23 B.C.

The symbolic association of Jesus Christ with the tradition of the white God, Quetzalcoatl, is indeed impressive.

AND NOW, MY BRETHREN, I HAVE SPOKEN PLAINLY THAT YE CANNOT ERR. AND

AS THE LORD GOD LIVETH THAT BROUGHT ISRAEL UP OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT,

AND GAVE UNTO MOSES POWER THAT HE SHOULD HEAL THE NATIONS AFTER THEY

HAD BEEN BITTEN BY THE POISONOUS SERPENTS, IF THEY WOULD CAST THEIR EYES

UNTO THE SERPENT, WHICH HE DID RAISE UP BEFORE THEM, AND ALSO GAVE HIM

POWER THAT HE SHOULD SMITE THE ROCK AND THE WATER SHOULD COME FORTH,

YEA, BEHOLD I SAY UNTO YOU THAT AS THESE THINGS ARE TRUE, AND AS THE LORD

GOD LIVETH, THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME GIVEN UNDER HEAVEN SAVE IT BE THIS

JESUS CHRIST, OF WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN, WHEREBY MAN CAN BE SAVED. (2 NEPHI 25:20) WRITTEN ABOUT 445 B.C.

BEHOLD, HE WAS SPOKEN OF BY MOSES, YEA, AND BEHOLD A TYPE WAS RAISED

UP IN THE WILDERNESS, THAT WHOSOEVER WOULD LOOK UPON IT MIGHT LIVE.

AND MANY DID LOOK AND LIVE. BUT FEW UNDERSTOOD THE MEANING OF THOSE

THINGS, AND THIS BECAUSE OF THE HARDNESS OF THEIR HEARTS. BUT THERE

WERE MANY WHO WERE SO HARDENED THAT THEY WOULD NOT LOOK, THEREFORE

THEY PERISHED. NOW THE REASON THEY WOULD NOT LOOK IS BECAUSE THEY

DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WOULD HEAL THEM. (Alma 33:19-20) Written about 74 B.C.

A further symbolic representation of Christ with the Quetzal bird and coatl (serpent) may be as follows. The beautiful Quetzal bird is symbolic of the heavens, and the serpent is symbolic of the earth. Christ is God over both the heavens and the earth. Christ descended or condescended, to the level of man as he took upon himself flesh. As the serpent crawls along the ground, so was Christ humiliated as he was scourged and hung upon the cross, like the Quetzal Christ.

[Maya]

I think this is a very interesting subject. Is the Ixtlilxochilt same as QUETZALCOATL? The books you mention that tell about Q are unknown for me. Is there anything on the nett about this... and what are the best books about it??

Just one thing that bugs me... you say that " Christ descended or condescended, to the level of man as he took upon himself flesh " How can He be our spirit brother if He already excisted in flesh?? Maybe I should have started a new thread with this question... this question has come in my mind before too.

[Vanhin]

Just one thing that bugs me... you say that " Christ descended or condescended, to the level of man as he took upon himself flesh " How can He be our spirit brother if He already excisted in flesh?? Maybe I should have started a new thread with this question... this question has come in my mind before too.

Hey Mailis,

I don't think hethathathears is saying that Christ already existed in the flesh. Christ entered mortality, and took upon himself flesh when he was born of the virgin Mary. Before that he was a spirit Personage, as we learn from Ether 3:16.

That is the "condescension of God" that the angel told Nephi about in a vision, and that Abinadi taught about; that God himself would enter mortality and atone for our sins and overcome physical death. See 1 Ne. 11, and Mosiah 15.

Regards,

Vanhin

[ruthiechan]

Are your references online at all? I am not familiar with the books you sited for Quetzaloatl, but would like to become familiar with them.

I do not doubt your claim however. I believe that many beliefs run parallel with the Messiah.

[hethathathears]

Many different questions here. 1st- Fernando de Alva Ixtlilxochitl was a native born scholar born in the 1600's. He was the Josephus of the American Continent. He took the oral legions of the people, (because the Spanish soldiers burnt all of their codices) and wrote them down. That is the only reason that we have them now. Quetzalcoatl was the name that came down through history of a great white God that appeared to the people of MesoAmerica.

I got the research from the excellent book "Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon by Joseph L Allen Ph.D. The Great White God Quetzalcoatl is Chapter 14. Fernando de Alva Ixtlilxochitl is chapter 11. GREAT BOOK No longer can the Anti say that there is no Archaeological proof of the Book of Mormon lands.

[Maya]

Thanks Vanhin.. just a translation error in my mind then... I tought it was a bit weird, that is why I asked.... but the one who asks wont go wrong!

[Hemidakota]

I think this is a very interesting subject. Is the Ixtlilxochilt same as QUETZALCOATL? The books you mention that tell about Q are unknown for me. Is there anything on the nett about this... and what are the best books about it??

Just one thing that bugs me... you say that " Christ descended or condescended, to the level of man as he took upon himself flesh " How can He be our spirit brother if He already excisted in flesh?? Maybe I should have started a new thread with this question... this question has come in my mind before too.

Here is a few books or articles concerning the topic:

Christ in Ancient America

by Milton R. Hunter

LDS.org - Ensign Article - That Powerful Ordinance, the Sacrament

Church Publications (HTML)

Improvement Era, 1928

Quetzalcoatl

A Deity of Pre-Historic America BY ALTON C. MELVILLE

Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon

by John L. Sorenson

[Dale]

I understand the legend appears right now to not have anything to do with Jesus. I think the legend appears not to be traceable back to Book of Mormon times. With long lists of similarities i cam cautious with claiming they prove anything. It does not mean one source has any kind of relationship to another possible source.

The legend right now of i recall right has associations with human sacrifice. And it had other very non-Christian things associated with it.

[hethathathears]

If you dig deep, you will find that there have been more than one QUETZALCOATL over time. I think that the one you are refering to lived around 900 A.D. and he was a very brutal man. I once went down a spent 9 months down in the Mexico area and I noticed that there were some youth down there with the name of Jesus. My one friend's name was Jesus but we called him Chewy. Mothers named their son's Jesus because of the one great Son of God Jesus that was born over 2000 years ago. It is a culture thing. The same is true with Quetzalcoatl.

Consider the writings of Fernando de Alva Ixtlilxochitl in the record Primera edicion: Antiquities of Mexico, Vol. IX London 1848

And at the time of his farewell from these people, he told them of times to come. he said that in the year that would be called Ce Acatl, he would return and then his doctrine would be accepted, and his children would be lords and heirs of the earth. He also told them that they and their descendants would pass through great calamities and persecutions. He prophesied of may other things that would surely come to pass.

Quetzalcoatl, by literal interpretation, means serpent of the precious feathers, with an allegoric meaning of man of exceeding great wisdom. And Heumac some say was the name given to him because his hands were printed, or stamped, on a rock, like a very fine wax, as testimony that what he prophesied would come to pass.

A few days after he left, a great destruction and devastation took place, which is referred to as the third period of the world... and later, those who excaped at the end of the third age, in place of the ruins, the people built a temple to Quetzalcoatl, ...And they called it Ce Acatl, which was the name of the year of his coming. According to the history referred to, and from the records, the foregoing took place a few years after the birth of Christ our Lord.

In the thread below called Ancient writtings that mirror the book of Mormon, I give a more complete story of Fernado de Alva Ixtlilxochitl.

Edited June 23, 2008 by hethathathears

[sb42393]

I just breifly skimed this but, since Jesus was born and raised in the middle east, he was most likely dark skinned.

[skalenfehl]

I just breifly skimed this but, since Jesus was born and raised in the middle east, he was most likely dark skinned.

Actually I have some first hand account descriptions of Him. While in the mission field I obtained a couple copies of reports in German, which were translated from their original language, supposedly written, one by Publius Lentulus, the other by Pontius Pilatus, describing their encounters and description of Jesus Christ.

The first article, written by Pilot, describes his encounters with Christ in a nine page document, while out among the people. On one occasion he found a young man appearing about the age of 30 and appearing very different from most of the people who listened to his preaching. He noted Christ having golden colored hair giving Him a heavenly appearance. He goes on to say that he never before saw someone who had such a "sweet and peaceful/ serene" countenance. He contrasted Christ's light appearance with the general appearance of those around him with black hair and beards and dark brown skin. So great was the contrast between Him and his listeners. He later describes his visit with Christ when He is brought before him to stand trial.

The second document was pulled from the "Stern" magazine back in 1913. It is the German version of the Ensign magazine. Here Publius describes Christ to Caesar as having hair the color of a mature/ripening hazelnut and combed smooth, up to the ears was earth color or maybe lighter. The look in his eyes are serious and piercing, his eyes were like sunbeams that nobody could look in the same way as his glances...He is happy, but with dignity. They say that people have neither seen him laugh nor cry. His hands and arms are very beautiful. His speeches soothe? (gefriedigen) his listeners very much. One sees him seldom, when one sees him, he's very serious. According to his appearance He is the nicest man anyone can see or imagine. His mother is counted as the most beautiful woman in the country.

The second document is only one page, but both seem to correlate to Christ having the same appearance and demeanor. I've been meaning to get these translated for almost twenty years, but it's one of those 'I'll get around to it' type of things. I'd be happy to fax a copy to anyone who speaks fluent German and would like to read them. Shoot me a pm.

[xXTekXx]

In Panama there are a few indian tribes today still speaking their own unique dialects. During my mission I personally heard them account a legend that had been passed down to them of a great white god who visted their ancestors thousands of years ago and taught them many great things. When he left, he promised he would return one day.

I can't remember the name they had for him as it was difficult to pronounce, I'll ask one of my companions if he remembers. The people that told me this story belonged to a tribe called "Kuna".

Edited July 7, 2008 by xXTekXx

[skalenfehl]

Kukulcaan?

[Guest User-Removed]

In Panama there are a few indian tribes today still speaking their own unique dialects. During my mission I personally heard them account a legend that had been passed down to them of a great white god who visted their ancestors thousands of years ago and taught them many great things. At the end of his stay, he promised he would return one day.

I can't remember the name they had for him as it was difficult to pronounce, I'll ask one of my companions if he remembers. The people that told me this story belonged to a tribe called "Kuna".

Moving south from Panama...Jared Diamond in his work "Guns, Germs and Steel" recounts the reception received by Pizarro in the Kingdom of the Incas. Like the Court of Mochtezuma, the Incas viewed the Conquistadores as Gods...White Gods who through their oral traditions had been foretold.

It is interesting, that many "New World" peoples had similar oral traditions.

For those who know for a surety the truth of the Book of Mormon and its message, I like to view continuing archeological evidences as a reward for our faith.

[NeuroTypical]

Here is a very good article from the Maxwell Institute with a clear, level-headed look at just exactly how cool these supposed similarities actually are.

Quetzalcoatl, the Maya Maize God, and Jesus Christ

I like their conclusion:

Despite discrepancies among Quetzalcoatl myths in colonial sources and the fairly good mythology and symbolism in pre-Columbian inscriptions and iconography, we are left with several crucial points about Quetzalcoatl and the Maya Maize God that apply to Christ's premortal state, his mission on earth, and his role in the hereafter. Are there plausible links? Yes. Are there significant differences? Again, yes. This review should help us to see a complex picture of continuities and discontinuities between Quetzalcoatl and the Savior. Because parts of the picture are rather faint, there is a need for caution in our studies when we approach the intriguing and mysterious figures of Quetzalcoatl and the Maya Maize God and attempt to draw connections between them and the resurrected Jesus.

LM

[xXTekXx]

Kukulcaan?

They refered to him as Ibiorgun.

[rameumptom]

I understand the legend appears right now to not have anything to do with Jesus. I think the legend appears not to be traceable back to Book of Mormon times. With long lists of similarities i cam cautious with claiming they prove anything. It does not mean one source has any kind of relationship to another possible source.

The legend right now of i recall right has associations with human sacrifice. And it had other very non-Christian things associated with it.

Portions of the legend do not extend back to Jesus' time. That being said, there's nothing to suggest that oral traditions could not have been passed down over centuries, eventually to be written down.

Don't forget, with the exception of about 7 books, all Aztec and Mayan books were destroyed by the Spaniards. Ixtlilxochitl had to provide these stories from memory. And in doing so, he and others amplified the ties with Christianity, in order to protect the Aztec people and their religion from destruction.

[rameumptom]

Actually I have some first hand account descriptions of Him. While in the mission field I obtained a couple copies of reports in German, which were translated from their original language, supposedly written, one by Publius Lentulus, the other by Pontius Pilatus, describing their encounters and description of Jesus Christ.

These sound like they may be part of the Archko Volume, or another similar document, many of which are thought to be fraudulent documents.

See here for more details and a link to the online Archko Volume.

Edited July 8, 2008 by rameumptom

[Islander]

On ef the most interesting and controversial documents to emerge from Central America was El Titulo de los Senores de Totonicapan, written/transcribed around 1554 and translated into Spanish, for the first time, in 1834.

Although there has been a significant and unusually adverse bias from the mostly American and European Meso-American researchers to believe the accuracy of certain claims in the document, it remains quite an intriguing proposition. That the Maya and Quiche kinds descended from Israel, and that they came from the East from where the sun rises and out of Babylon. That is interesting indeed.

[rameumptom]

The Popul Vuh has several stories that tie in, as well. There is a story of two brothers who are slain by the evil god. Their seed is stored in a tree, essentially the Quiche Tree of Life. This seed drops upon a maiden who passes by, and she is impregnated with them, thus they resurrect through this power. Here we see a story that includes the Tree of Life and resurrection, which are both representative of the good god (twin gods, in this case) or Jesus Christ.