New Program in the Church (Testimonies)

[Jenamarie]

Our Stake Priesthood meeting was tonight, and my husband came home with some news about a "new program" the church is implimenting, at least in our area. Our Stake Pres. "signed on" to the program, along with other Stake Presidents in our reigion at their last quarterly meeting. He did admit to being one of the last hold outs though.

The reason is: the new program is "agenda-less meetings". Basically, the Bishops are being asked to have meetings more often where there are no assigned speakers, just people called up at random to bare Testimonies. What was meant exactly by "more often" wasn't clearly spelled out, but WOW!! I've been in meetings like this where it was on a whim, because none of the actual assigned speakers showed up, or they took up so little time that there was 30 or more minutes left to fill in Sacrament meeting, but to have it as the actual meeting plan is going to be something new! Time to dig out my xanax!

[NateHowe]

Here's the benefit I can see: Many people, when asked to give a talk, find a General Conference talk on the same subject and read it. Although the words of the living prophets are true, our role as speakers in a Sacrament Meeting is not to read from the Church magazines, but to testify of truth, using the scriptures and the words of living prophets as our guides.

Without advance warning, a person must speak from the heart and off the cuff. He or she won't copy and paste from LDS.org - the talk will be more personal, less staged, and likely related to that speaker's current scripture study.

I like it. But my stake has not announced anything like that.

[Truegrits]

Basically, the Bishops are being asked to have meetings more often where there are no assigned speakers, just people called up at random to bare Testimonies. What was meant exactly by "more often" wasn't clearly spelled out

I do not like the

"called up"

open meetings where one gets up voluntarily/spiritually...fine. But there are some that freeze up and literally cannot speak in front of a large group, especially on the spur of the moment. Some need most of the Fast and Testimony meeting to get up the nerve to bear their Testimonies in front of people. That does not mean they do not have a strong testament of the Gospel, or of Jesus Christ, our Savior...just trepidation about public speaking.

I can see some dreading going to Church, not knowing when there is going to be an "open meeting"....And WHO would be doing the "calling up"? The Bishop...? or the person that just bore their Testimony, calling the next person?

:confused: I guess I will have to wait and see.

[Palerider]

the thought of calling someone up from the congregation does make me squirm a bit.....the reason for this is.....when you ask someone to come up and take 3-5 minutes or 2-3 minutes...they never watch the time....then you end up having to tap them on the foot. You want to do it in a way not to embarrass.

[Truegrits]

the thought of calling someone up from the congregation does make me squirm a bit.....the reason for this is.....when you ask someone to come up and take 3-5 minutes or 2-3 minutes...they never watch the time....then you end up having to tap them on the foot. You want to do it in a way not to embarrass.

In our Ward, over half of the members give their Testimonies from their seat, standing with a microphone. There would be no way to "tap them on the foot."

[pam]

Sounds kind of like the ward conferences when I was growing up...well and even as an adult. I hated it. Unfortunately I was always in some ward leadership position that I would get called up every single time. Seriously...it started making me think to just stay home on those days.

[Palerider]

In our Ward, over half of the members give their Testimonies from their seat, standing with a microphone. There would be no way to "tap them on the foot."

but....if this is done in place of a talk....then I would suspect they would have to walk up to pulpit....

[Truegrits]

it started making me think to just stay home on those days

And I just know that is what some in our Ward will think. I would hope they wouldn't actually stay home...but I bet some would; especially if it were pre-announced.

but....if this is done in place of a talk....then I would suspect they would have to walk up to pulpit....

I can see our Ward doing it just like we do our Fast & Testimony meeting. You are not talking about three or four talks...but twenty? or so Testimonies. And if a person is really anxious about spur-of-the-moment speaking, what a terrible position to put them in. They may be so shy and scared, they will refuse to do it...then be embarrassed, and even angry, and not want to be put in such a position again. I can absolutely see that happening. In fact, unless they are careful in how it is done, I can see it turning many "off".

[pam]

Totally agree

[Gwen]

we do a lot of "spur of the moment speaking" in our branch due to speakers not showing up but it's very rarely from the pulpit. for us "spur of the moment" is defined as we are preping for sacrament meeting (which we have last) and you are asked to speak, so you get the 10 min it takes to pass the sacrament to think and prep (or you do have the chance to say no).

our stake president always calls at least one person up from the pulpit to say something, he always assigns a topic when he callse them. he does this in stake conference, when he visits for branch conf, etc.

[Truegrits]

I think what Gwen described is different than calling someone totally out of the blue, no pre-notice at all.

Sort of like a deer in the headlight reaction!

[hordak]

Not trying to hijack the tread but this confuses me.

They are trying to have more testimony meetings?

A few weeks ago they spoke about not having children bear "their" testimonies by having parents whisper in their ears ( which i agree with completely).

In reading a reacent talk(general conference) by Elder Dallin H Oaks he said "A testimony of the gospel is a personal witness borne to our souls by the Holy Ghost that certain facts of eternal significance are true and that we know them to be true. Such facts include the nature of the Godhead and our relationship to its three members, the effectiveness of the Atonement, and the reality of the Restoration.

A testimony of the gospel is not a travelogue, a health log, or an expression of love for family members. It is not a sermon. President Kimball taught that the moment we begin preaching to others, our testimony is ended."

This seams to me to encourage the impersonal "cookie cutter' testimony that we hear too often at fast and testimony meetings.IMO. Perhaps I am not understanding it properly?

I don't understand how having a large amount of people reciting the same "I know the church is true. I Know Joseph Smith was a Prophet or God, I know the Book of Mormon...."

more often would be better then them plagiarizing talks from the Ensign?

[Gwen]

our stake pres is a big proponet of one should be able to give a talk (not a testamony) off the cuff. that you should always be prepared and know the gospel that well but mostly be able to be led by the spirit in that manner. you shouldn't have to wait till the spirit prompts you but be able to call upon it and seek after it for guidence when you need it. he regularly encourages the stake leaders and the bishops to prepare for a talk but do not plan or write one.

[Tough Grits]

In our Ward, over half of the members give their Testimonies from their seat, standing with a microphone. There would be no way to "tap them on the foot."

Amen!

Which is why I cannot stand the mic being passed around. I can understand that for those with disabilities a mic would be essential and beneficial, but too many use that thing that don't need to.

And if something was being said that was incorrect, how would the Bishop stop them...have a member from the congregation tackle them?

:lol:

[Truegrits]

And if something was being said that was incorrect, how would the Bishop stop them...have a member from the congregation tackle them?

OH MY GOODNESS!!! I can just picture that! :lol:

[pam]

Amen!

Which is why I cannot stand the mic being passed around. I can understand that for those with disabilities a mic would be essential and beneficial, but too many use that thing that don't need to.

And if something was being said that was incorrect, how would the Bishop stop them...have a member from the congregation tackle them?

:lol:

He has his secret service men conveniently seated inconspicuously among the congregation. Shhh don't tell anyone...They are the men with dark suits, white shirts and ties.

[nephite1978]

I'm just worried that people don't know what a Testimony really is. Like what Hordak said, in quoting Elder Oaks. "A testimony of the gospel is a personal witness borne to our souls by the Holy Ghost that certain facts of eternal significance are true and that we know them to be true. Such facts include the nature of the Godhead and our relationship to its three members, the effectiveness of the Atonement, and the reality of the Restoration.

A testimony of the gospel is not a travelogue, a health log, or an expression of love for family members. It is not a sermon. President Kimball taught that the moment we begin preaching to others, our testimony is ended."

Every month, I almost dread going to Fast & Testimony meeting because of this. Luckily, our Stake President hasn't said anything about this. Yet.

[Tough Grits]

Not trying to hijack the tread but this confuses me.

They are trying to have more testimony meetings?

A few weeks ago they spoke about not having children bear "their" testimonies by having parents whisper in their ears ( which i agree with completely).

In reading a recent talk(general conference) by Elder Dallin H Oaks he said "A testimony of the gospel is a personal witness borne to our souls by the Holy Ghost that certain facts of eternal significance are true and that we know them to be true. Such facts include the nature of the Godhead and our relationship to its three members, the effectiveness of the Atonement, and the reality of the Restoration.

A testimony of the gospel is not a travelogue, a health log, or an expression of love for family members. It is not a sermon. President Kimball taught that the moment we begin preaching to others, our testimony is ended."

This seams to me to encourage the impersonal "cookie cutter' testimony that we hear too often at fast and testimony meetings.IMO. Perhaps I am not understanding it properly?

I don't understand how having a large amount of people reciting the same "I know the church is true. I Know Joseph Smith was a Prophet or God, I know the Book of Mormon...."

more often would be better then them plagiarizing talks from the Ensign?

Hordak,

I have often wondered about this...as I have a family member who dislikes being told "what not to say" in a testimony. Of course, she also happens to be one of those that sermonizes to others, rather than bear her own testimony.

However, bearing a testimony can be done in a heartfelt, sincere manner without giving a travelogue, a health log, an expression of love for family members, and/or a sermon.

That may seem that all is left is the "cookie-cutter" testimony...but that is not necessarily so.

What about what one learned this past week while reading the scriptures, or studying for a lesson, or during Family Home Evening, or during a service project, or while doing member missionary work, or while sharing the gospel with a friend, or while sitting and pondering?

I bet that there are WAY more spiritual things that happen to us during a week than we even realize! I learn something new every day spiritually. In fact, I learned something very valuable this Sunday in Church. Actually, more than one thing. I could easily bear a testimony on just those things.

We should ask ourselves some questions:

Has the Lord helped me this week?

Have I felt the promptings of the Spirit this week?

Has following the counsel of my leaders benefited me in some way this week?

Has doing my Home Teaching/Visiting Teaching this month helped me or helped another?

How has attending my meetings strengthened my testimony and knowledge of the gospel?

Have I had a sincere teaching moment this week?

Has my spirit been lifted by another who gave neighborly love, or compassionate service, or fellowship?

Have I lifted another's spirit by giving neighborly love, or compassionate service, or fellowship?

Can I feel the love of my Savior?

What does the sacrament mean to me?

What does the atonement mean to me?

What does following the the Prophet mean to me?

What does eternal families mean to me?

Why are the scriptures valuable to me?

What does walking in faith mean to me?

Am I thankful for my mortal probation on the earth?

What does mortal probation mean?

What does the role that I played in the pre-mortal world have to do with my role on earth?

Why is following the straight and narrow so important?

Once we are baptized, have we fulfilled all that is required of us?

I think we could all write enough questions to fill many, many journals.

Maybe we need to be writing or thinking of questions like these, and then writing or thinking of the answers.

Because the answer to any of these question would be a wonderful testimony to bear!

At least IMHO.

~TG

[Jenamarie]

I think there are lots of interesting and uplifting Testimonies that can be borne following the guidelines laid out by Elder Oaks. We have some members of our congregation who *always* give a travel log, and then thank HF that they live in our town, and how wonderful it is to come back home after being away for so long. And then Senior members who get up to update us on how they're doing. The Spirit just isn't there during those "Testimonies".

[NormalMormon]

Testimonies are a great thing, don't get me wrong here.

But there are so many better things to be talking about in church than conditioning our children to say, "I know this church is true, I know our prophet lives, I know Jesus lives, I love my mom and dad."

After awhile testimonies don't become testimonies. They become repetitive paragraphs to please parents. Especially for those raised in the church.

Agenda-less meetings might be alright if what people speak on IS NOT a testimony. Maybe if they had something REAL to say. Something that we can learn. Something out of the ordinary.

But asking people to go up and start saying the EXACT same thing over and over again without thinking is basically the definition of a cult....(ahem, or the Catholic Church.)

[Jenamarie]

NormalMormon: No one is saying they have to make "I know xxx is true" statements. Maybe it's the wards you've been in, but I've been in several wards where the Testimonies were TESTIMONIES. Really powerful witnesses of the Spirit that deveated from the "script" but were still within the guidelines of "no travel log, etc." And I haven't seen a parent whisper in a child's ear in over a decade, so I guess in my part of the country that type of "Testimony" has been stamped out. Only kids who can do it solo go up.

My main concern with this program is people who have a genuine, paralyzing fear of public speaking being "called up" and deciding not to come to church anymore. It will deffinately need to be handled with a huge amount of sensitivity and guidance of the Spirit.

[Jenamarie]

One example of a cute little Testimony that was borne in my ward last month: a newlywed woman got up and shared her experience with being taught how to cook by her Visiting Teacher, and how she suddenly saw it as a metaphore for Gospel living. She felt like she had lived a Spaghetti and Meat Sauce life as a child, good and filling, but since going through the Temple and being married, she wanted to start working her way up to a Lasagna life. Adding more additional "seasonings" (Scripture study, FHE with her husband, etc.) to make her life more satisfying and more of what the Lord knows it can be.

It was true, not cookie cutter, and I've deffinately remembered it and started applying it to myself, trying to add more "seasonings" to my life. :)

[NormalMormon]

I think it's wrong to simply "call" people up. Like a teacher does in school. Yes, people do have fears of speaking in public. I get so nervous speaking in church, yet not in any other place. (And I have to public speak in my JOB!) Church is a whole different thing. You are speaking from your heart. But even still, you are right. People would have a VERY hard time coming to church, knowing that they might be "called on."

I can't even imagine this. I could MAYBE understand a "Fast and Testimony-esque" meeting, where people ELECT to speak. But we all know how many people go to those...(where I live, F&T is dreaded.)

[Truegrits]

~~~Jenamarie~~~

My main concern with this program is people who have a genuine, paralyzing fear of public speaking being "called up" and deciding not to come to church anymore. It will definitely need to be handled with a huge amount of sensitivity and guidance of the Spirit.

I agree! In fact, I DO NOT think any one should be put on the spot. A testimony is the spiritual prompting of one to share with others; making a declaration of ones beliefs...it is not an "On Demand" recital.

This thread is the first I have heard of this program, so I do not know what will or will not happen. However, I am VERY against a non-voluntary bearing of ones testimony!

Edited June 23, 2008 by Truegrits

[Jenamarie]

Truegrits: It may be a "pilot program" or something, where they're trying it out in just some areas. I do wonder how long it will last, and how often these types of meetings will be.