Why do so few care?

[bytor2112]

I think it is because people today are seeking a church that is patterned after the world. They want to live how that want and go to heaven too. I remember when the Pope passed away, people were wondering if the next Pope might be more liberal in his views.

Churches now really lack reverence..... they play rock music and rap music with a Christian theme. What kind of message does that send.? The same ideals of normalcy that lead people away from God are now being offered as a way to come to God. Confusing!??

There are only two directions... eithe rtoward God or away. Hanging on to the worldly, even to the point of bringing it to church is definitely not moving toward him.

[mike_uk]

When I was fully active I tried my hardest to share the gospel message with those around me, especially my family and close friends and you know what most of them just laughed at me and called me crazy, especially regarding Joseph's vision. Many of them after the laughter said religion is "old fashioned" and not needed.

[MrNirom]

It amazes me how Joseph Smith and his family all believed him. Being the oldest of 8 children, I am the only member of the church. And I have one sister who is somewhat active in the Catholic Church. The rest have no interest in God or religion at all.

[utcowboy]

Mike_uk and MrNirom,

Look at Nephis family.... Here you had two brothers that would rather kill their younger brother then open their hearts to the will of the Lord. After seeing an angel and everything else that had testified to them they still scorned and made fun of Nephi, Sam, etc. There will always be those who would rather chase after the things of the world then to follow the will of God.

[Dove]

I remember being confused as a missionary~seeing people that were seemingly happy living lives without Christ, or as I often saw, living their religion hating mine (I was in a very strong anti-mormon region). I wondered how people could "get away" with being happy and not living the commandments, while I felt prompted to live the commandments the best I could, and still was unhappy at times. I've realized a few things. First of all, I believe that God blesses us according to our desires~he gives us what we truly want. Second, I have the wonderful Gift of the Holy Ghost, and am accountable to His promptings, regardless of what other people do. Third, in the end, how a person chooses to live his/her life is between him/her and God. God has a way of touching/teaching a person's heart, more than anything I could do, even if it is reaping what one has sown.

Also, I wonder if all this corruption is a sign of the times and the worsening of evil in the "promise land?"

[WANDERER]

I'm just perplexed by it all. Morman beliefs are so different culturally in terms of it's restored gospel and practices.

Being remotely interested in history, the restoration word leaves me feeling uncomfortable...as it was the period when England turned against the Puritan movement...which continued on in the U.S. Obviously not news to you, but UK or US history wasn't part of my school curriculum. So looking at that and the things that happened in the U.S in terms of religious movements has been instructive. I take too much forgranted.

One of the side effects of a *grace* centred religion is not really having to think about the past or future ...just the now. So I find myself doing a bit of catchup in the theology and understanding Christianity department.

Why...I don't really have any frame of reference and if it is a restored truth then where did the truth get all muddled. It's news to me.

I think the *know that it is true* complexity means that knowledge is involved. It's not that I don't care...it's just that it opens up a degree of complexity about faith that I hadn't really considered and is rather confusing.

There is a difference between knowing that it is not true (therefore I don't care except about what is true to me), knowing that is true (therefore I don't care about things that are not true as I have focus) and not knowing what the truth is (I care, and essentially this is a problem until I work out what it is that is true...sometimes labelled an investigator or apostate...and not all that welcome because either you're in the second category or you're not, and if you're not you might as well be in the first in all practicality..thus I guess most people realise that category by default).

I do think that you could spend your whole life not knowing...where does that fit into things? It doesn't really. You can do that in any other Christian denomination and work yourself out along the way...but investigating LDS is by nature isolating and a soloistic endeavour because of restricted involvement (to my understanding). Perhaps I misunderstand.

[MrNirom]

I do think that you could spend your whole life not knowing...where does that fit into things? It doesn't really. You can do that in any other Christian denomination and work yourself out along the way...but investigating LDS is by nature isolating and a soloistic endeavour because of restricted involvement (to my understanding). Perhaps I misunderstand.

It is true.. because the doctrine is discussed on a deeper level than most Christian Churches.. you have to believe first.

When a lesson or a talk is on the subject of eternal marriage.. or the first vision of Joseph Smith.. or the restoration of the Priesthood.. those who don't believe that Joseph had a vision.. could not then believe the doctrine of eternal marriage.. or in the Priesthood.. as these were revealed to Joseph Smith.

So listening to something.. or many things.. you don't have a belief in.. would have a tendency to make one feel.. not included. And this feeling does not come from an external source.. but internal.

Most other Churches will talk about the bible only.. and the teaching that are in there. So most people can agree and even if you don't like that one church baptizes differently from another.. it doesn't become an issue because normally the doctrine itself is not taught on an ongoing basis. Most of the sermons are generic. I watch TBS and CBN quite often to get an idea of what they are teaching.

It is one thing to attend LDS meetings.. but another to continually hear things you don't have a belief in.

I know how it feels.. as when I went to visit my sister.. she is Catholic. I sat through the service just fine.. because I did not hear anything that contradicted my belief system. I am sure that I could continue to go there.. and the chances I would hear something I didn't believe in.. would be few and far between. Make sense?

We have the more scriptures than anybody else. Besides the Bible.. we will quote from the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Convenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. So many of things that a investigator will hear.. will be very foreign to them. But what is amazing.. is when you do believe.. and you can start to see things in the scriptures.. like the Bible.. read a passage.. and it makes sense to you.. And things like this happen all the time. That is when you start "knowing" instead of just believing.

Edited July 9, 2008 by MrNirom

[Islander]

I'm just perplexed by it all. Morman beliefs are so different culturally in terms of it's restored gospel and practices.

Being remotely interested in history, the restoration word leaves me feeling uncomfortable...as it was the period when England turned against the Puritan movement...which continued on in the U.S. Obviously not news to you, but UK or US history wasn't part of my school curriculum. So looking at that and the things that happened in the U.S in terms of religious movements has been instructive. I take too much forgranted.

One of the side effects of a *grace* centred religion is not really having to think about the past or future ...just the now. So I find myself doing a bit of catchup in the theology and understanding Christianity department.

Why...I don't really have any frame of reference and if it is a restored truth then where did the truth get all muddled. It's news to me.

I think the *know that it is true* complexity means that knowledge is involved. It's not that I don't care...it's just that it opens up a degree of complexity about faith that I hadn't really considered and is rather confusing.

There is a difference between knowing that it is not true (therefore I don't care except about what is true to me), knowing that is true (therefore I don't care about things that are not true as I have focus) and not knowing what the truth is (I care, and essentially this is a problem until I work out what it is that is true...sometimes labelled an investigator or apostate...and not all that welcome because either you're in the second category or you're not, and if you're not you might as well be in the first in all practicality..thus I guess most people realise that category by default).

I do think that you could spend your whole life not knowing...where does that fit into things? It doesn't really. You can do that in any other Christian denomination and work yourself out along the way...but investigating LDS is by nature isolating and a soloistic endeavour because of restricted involvement (to my understanding). Perhaps I misunderstand.

Hello Wanderer

I read your post several times before replying. I can see that your views about religion, in general, and likely about other subjects, are expressed and relate to your general awareness or the subject and its relevance to your everyday life. What I mean is that, as you stated, because history was not in your "knowledge acquisition menu" you sort of turned your back to a whole host of issues that now are weaved into the fabric of the country and the religious history of it.

So, my feel is that you tend to approach religion and the theological exchange as a more or less intellectual task rather than a spiritual one. That position places you at at severe disadvantage. You are expecting for the information to "resonate" or make sense at some level since you are a critical thinker. And, you tend to see this task (researching LDS theology, for example) as unrelated or disconnected from the limited body of knowledge you had access or exposure to prior to recent times. Note that you speak of new and confusing/copmplex information.

Now, a purely theological, academic or "objective" approach not only would take years. It will still leave you dissatisfied and perplex and now with a mountain of information inside your head but still not one inch closer to the truth. The litmus test remains in the spiritual realm. The scriptures are plain and before you and God invites you thru His prophets, to sample the message and to seek thru Him and His Spirit a corroborating witness of what we that have declared to you on account of having found for ourselves that the message is true. It is foreign and at times counterintuitive. But lack of knowledge does not implies absence of faith and it is by faith that the mysteries are unfolded and things made clear to your mind and knowledge of the things od God is acquired.

Think about it

[Guest HEthePrimate]

I would ask the opposite question: Why has the Church been as successful as it has? It has a number of things going against it including the following:

--The Church does demand a lot of its members.

--Most of the missionaries are quite young, inexperienced, and don't really know much either about the Gospel or about dealing with people.

--Members of the Church tend to teach high ideals, but we are human and don't live up to them.

--Some members of the Church are arrogant and smug, and can be judgmental of nonmembers (not to mention each other).

--Members of the Church tend to have very exclusive social lives--we associate mostly with fellow Mormons.

Given all the above, why hasn't the Church just withered away?

I do not intend to offend anybody--the above criticisms apply to me as much as to anybody else. It just amazes me that things work as well as they do.

HEP

[FayetteIA]

Just last week in Priesthood meeting, my husband told me the lesson was on apathy. They were comparing how as elders they serve the church and the community. He said a show of hands revealed not one member went to the IA Caucus. True we had brutal winter storm..but we had brutal winter storms all last winter.

That was just one example. The point was, then, the elders quorum could not find fault about others if they..were not doing what they ought to be...

I call Free Agency; "The blessing and curse of Free Agency. Free Agency is a blessing, it is vital to the gospel. But..the exercise of free agency can have harmful effects on another.

I think when we look at others and wonder "Why" can't you see" we need to see them as Heavenly Father does. He will never force His children to be obedient. All we can do is present our position, bear our testimony and pray for those we do it for. No matter if they join the church or are active members or not.

Joni

[manxman]

The reason the church prospers, even with things against it, is because God wants it too. Both because of and in spite of the members, the work rolls forward to fulfill it prophetic destiny-to fill the Earth with the Gospel of Christ, until the truth has sounded in every ear and been preached in every nation, until the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done, that those whom are willing to harken may freely do so, and those whom will not may receive a just reward.

[Justice]

Why does it seem like so few people care or seem interested or excited to find out the the Gospel has been restored? Are there to many competing voices? Has "main stream" Christianity made it too easy to be saved? Is this doctrine just to appealing?

I have often wondered why it is some feel the Spirit so strongly and others while hearing the same message don't or won't? Tuned into the wrong frequency I guess. We are a very small minority.... really makes me sad sometimes.

We can't forget about our pre-mortal existence. Prophets have said that those who strived to learn more and grow there have all the adevantage here.

[PapilioMemnon]

The work of the Lord will go one, and no "unhollow hand" will stop it...

However, the members of the church have a lot to do with the Church's progress as shown in many parts of the BOM.

For the purpose of this post, I'm citing Alma 4:6-15 which talks about the condition of the Church just before Alma, the Younger, had to resign from the Judgement Seat, to preach the word of God to the people (Members of the Church).

Alma 4

6 And it came to pass in the *eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, ...

7 Now this was the cause of much affliction to Alma, yea, and to many of the people whom Alma had consecrated to be ateachers, and bpriests, and celders over the church; yea, many of them were sorely grieved for the wickedness which they saw had begun to be among their people.

8 For they saw and beheld with great sorrow that the people of the church began to be lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and to set their ahearts upon riches and upon the vain things of the world, that they began to be scornful, one towards another...

9 And thus, in this eighth year of the reign of the judges, there began to be great acontentions among the people of the church; yea, there were benvyings, and cstrife, and malice, and persecutions, and pride, even to exceed the pride of those who did notbelong to the church of God.

10 And thus ended the eighth year of the reign of the judges; and the wickedness of the church was a great astumbling-block to those who did not belong to the church; and thus the church began to fail in its progress.

11 And it came to pass in the *commencement of the ninth year, Alma saw the wickedness of the church, and he saw also that the aexample of the church began to lead those who were unbelievers on from one piece of iniquity to another, thus bringing on the destruction of the people.

--------------------------------------------------

The way the members of the Church live the teachings, the example of the members, can affect to a great degree other's ability to believe and become a member; it can help the Church to progress or not.

There are those who are faithful through all just like the ones who stood firmly through the trials the Church went through with Alma, but the numbers were few comparing to the entire church membership.

In my ward now, there's approximately 500 members, of that, about 350-375 are adults; only about 100 - 150 are active.

The previous ward I attended, when I baptized, I saw this cycle... it progressed greatly, up to 150 members, then, because of the examples, people stopped attending every Sunday, then going inactive, and others following... the inactive ones, sometimes, pressing the actives ones, with much malice, gossiping, scorn, sarcasm, etc... until there were only a little over 10 people left... it closed last year...

Pride is the great stumbling-block.

It makes me ponder my own example...

The work will go forth whether with 13 Million or 6500000 (Parable of the 10 Virgins)...

Edited July 12, 2008 by PapilioMemnon

[abqfriend]

Hi-I am a Roman Catholic-what you mention are Positives about the LDS Church. I only wish my church had more of them!

1. It is OK to demand things of your members!-keep it up!

-The world is looking for direction and guidance and discipline

2. The Original 12 Apostles were the not a very good group of missionaries-They probably would not pass the test--yet they and their message changed the world.

They were mostly young, uneducated, did not go to college-(BYU or Catholic University), knew little of the cultures to which they travelled-they were awful! They many times mis-understood the message given to them by the Savior Himself. In times of trial-they denied the Savior-and ran the other way!----yet they changed the World with their message!

3. High Ideals-in a world of no ideals or mediocre ones at best-Please continue to teach high ideals! Do not "dumb down" your message to a hurting world.

Churches that do that-mine is not one of them either-wither on the vine and -fall off!

4. Non Perfect Members--There is Non Righteous no not one! We all have faults and sometimes do a miserable job at things-The original 12 Apostles are sometimes good examples of that too! Our church is full of imperfect members too!

5. Members have exclusive social Lives--in a world full of trash, sin and a messed up media-you have values. Family Night being one-I wish my own church had and required a Family Night.

It is true that the more we associate with members of our own faith-we know less of people of no faith. This was even more so at the time of the 1st Century-when there were almost no Christians-but those that were Christians fellowshiped together.

People of like mind-or same beliefs need each other to strengthen each other in the faith.

I wish every Church/Ward had at the exit of their parking Lots-a big sign which read:

"You are Now Entering the Mission Field."

-So rejoice in your Positives!---the World is Waiting!

-Carol

I would ask the opposite question: Why has the Church been as successful as it has? It has a number of things going against it including the following:

--The Church does demand a lot of its members.

--Most of the missionaries are quite young, inexperienced, and don't really know much either about the Gospel or about dealing with people.

--Members of the Church tend to teach high ideals, but we are human and don't live up to them.

--Some members of the Church are arrogant and smug, and can be judgmental of nonmembers (not to mention each other).

--Members of the Church tend to have very exclusive social lives--we associate mostly with fellow Mormons.

Given all the above, why hasn't the Church just withered away?

I do not intend to offend anybody--the above criticisms apply to me as much as to anybody else. It just amazes me that things work as well as they do.

HEP

Edited July 12, 2008 by abqfriend

[Guest Username-Removed]

Back to why others don’t accept ....

Many of you know that I am a convert, and I was also inactive for over two years. That being said, I do have a lot of experience with non-members. I've worked with them, grew up with them, and also some of them were even best friends.

That being said, some (not all) actually do get testimony, but do not act on it. Several times, also including my mission, have noticed people feel the spirit answer their question about something. These questions include...

1) Does God answer prayers?

2) Is the church true?

3) Should I go on a mission?

These questions reflect different levels of spirituality. Each of them are points where decisions have to be made or postponed.

In one case, when I was inactive, but still very much believed in the Gospel, I had a friend that was also very inactive. He was thinking about going on a mission, but wanted to get an answer about it. He seemed sincere, so I asked him if he really wanted an answer. He said yes. For weeks we talked about it. What is was like for me to go on a mission, the hard things, and the spiritual things & also the rewards of it. Then there we were talking about it and he suddenly got his answer. I was right near him when he did, and I also felt it. We both looked at each other. I was so happy because it was definitely a positive answer that he should prepare and go on a mission. But he didn’t look happy. And he did not honor the answer he received. It was sad, because we both worked so hard on getting an answer. I think he realized what he was going to have to start preparing. A few months later, he "borrowed" a credit card from me and purchased over $4000 worth of stereo equipment. The last I heard he was hanging out with several other inactive young men involved with buying and selling pot and petty theft as well as burglary.

This is only one story. I know of several others that are very similar. It seems that when Heavenly Father blesses us with knowledge it tips the balance between good and evil to good, only if one acts on that knowledge. And, conversely, if one does not act, the balance between good and evil in this telestial world will tip back towards evil all too easily.

The older we get, the more we wise we become, and more trust is given to us by Heavenly Father for the responsibility of acting on the knowledge we get from him. The farther we climb towards him, the narrower the path becomes and things which we used to think were ok, simply tip the scale fully towards evil. The spiritual gifts, knowledge, & guidance cannot be taken lightly even for a moment. We must act on everything we receive.

It starts with simply accepting him and his answers from personal prayer.

[japacific]

It's not that people don't care. It's that they think the LDS church is just wrong?

[Guest Username-Removed]

If someone is honestly looking for truth, setting their own doubts & preconceptions aside, they will have the ability to find out the truth. Whether they do that sooner or later .... its up to them.

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Thanks for your response, abqfriend. I appreciate your ability to see good things in the LDS Church even though you yourself are not LDS. Some people seem unwilling to see what's good about our church, and we find that distressing because, like most people, we like to be accepted, and we hope that people will give (our version of) the gospel a chance.

Hi-I am a Roman Catholic-what you mention are Positives about the LDS Church. I only wish my church had more of them!

1. It is OK to demand things of your members!-keep it up!

-The world is looking for direction and guidance and discipline

I would change "demand" to "ask," but other than that, I agree. A lot of people recognize that we need some kind of structure and guidance.

2. The Original 12 Apostles were the not a very good group of missionaries-They probably would not pass the test--yet they and their message changed the world.

They were mostly young, uneducated, did not go to college-(BYU or Catholic University), knew little of the cultures to which they travelled-they were awful! They many times mis-understood the message given to them by the Savior Himself. In times of trial-they denied the Savior-and ran the other way!----yet they changed the World with their message!

3. High Ideals-in a world of no ideals or mediocre ones at best-Please continue to teach high ideals! Do not "dumb down" your message to a hurting world.

Churches that do that-mine is not one of them either-wither on the vine and -fall off!

4. Non Perfect Members--There is Non Righteous no not one! We all have faults and sometimes do a miserable job at things-The original 12 Apostles are sometimes good examples of that too! Our church is full of imperfect members too!

Very true!

5. Members have exclusive social Lives--in a world full of trash, sin and a messed up media-you have values. Family Night being one-I wish my own church had and required a Family Night.

It is true that the more we associate with members of our own faith-we know less of people of no faith. This was even more so at the time of the 1st Century-when there were almost no Christians-but those that were Christians fellowshiped together.

People of like mind-or same beliefs need each other to strengthen each other in the faith.

While I agree that it's important to fellowship with and strengthen our fellow believers, I'm not sure it's healthy to associate with them to the exclusion of all others. Regardless of our religious beliefs, we are all children of God, and we should therefore seek friendship with everybody.

-So rejoice in your Positives!---the World is Waiting!

-Carol

Thank you--I do. I didn't mean to come across as too critical of my fellow Mormons. There's a reason I hang around with them--I like them! However, the beginning of this thread seemed a little too much about finding fault with others whose only "offense" is not agreeing with our religious beliefs, and I wanted to steer things in a different direction.

Thanks again for your thoughtful response!

DH

[bert10]

As strange as it may seems...I have read this many times and had nothing to say...but now....I do and so I answer.

The gospel of repentance is still about love...and this is what the Lord prophesied for our day.

Matthew 24:12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

The true gospel of Christ gets in the way of the worldly. So few people will receive this gospel because they are completely blinded and hypnotized by all the glitter the world has to offer. I think what is happening now in the USA and around the world is God trying to re-focus the eyes of men from their worldly lives and things back to Himself. I shudder to think what will happen...once these warnings runs out. For the heart fills up with what the eye beholds and men are refusing to re-focus on God so the storms, the floods, the tornadoes, the fires are still increasing. Coming soon famines, plagues, economic woes and wars.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Why does it seem like so few people care or seem interested or excited to find out the the Gospel has been restored? Are there to many competing voices? Has "main stream" Christianity made it too easy to be saved? Is this doctrine just to appealing?

I have often wondered why it is some feel the Spirit so strongly and others while hearing the same message don't or won't? Tuned into the wrong frequency I guess. We are a very small minority.... really makes me sad sometimes.

Edited July 14, 2008 by bert10