Are there sins that baptism can't wash away?

[seeker]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? or the atonement doesn't cover?

What does it mean to sin agianst the Holy Ghost?

I have been thinking about these subjects lately.

[Misshalfway]

There is one sin the Atonement won't cover and that is the sin against the Holy Ghost. This happens when a person has full knowledge of God, Jesus, and extensive gospel truth and then is trusted with spiritual information and duty and then turns completely and traitorously against such knowledge and then fight against the truth. Make sense? Having the perfect knowledge and then basically becoming as Satan himself.

I believe every other sin should be taken care of with a baptism. The sin against the HG isn't possible for anyone who hasn't been baptized. And the only other exception I can imagine would be a murder. And then, that person at worst, wouldn't be allowed to be baptized. That is my best guess on that. I wonder if it would be a case by case basis.

[NateHowe]

Baptism is for the remission of sins, but if it is not preceded by faith and sincere repentance, it is not effective for that purpose. In other words, if I commit all manner of sins in the days leading up to baptism, with the view that baptism will erase those wrongs, the baptism will not cause my sins to be remitted because proper repentance was not made. The principles of the Gospel are spelled out in order for a reason.

[hordak]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? or the atonement doesn't cover?

What does it mean to sin agianst the Holy Ghost?

I have been thinking about these subjects lately.

I heard a great story about that on a different message board and If it's true it is very reassuring.

A young man was at the missionary training center and they were talked to by one of the quorum of the twelve. After words they opened the floor to questions and a one of them asked the same thing. His answer was, there is only only person in this room who needs to worry about that, and i don't plan to fail.

[VisionOfLehi]

Sinning against the Holy Ghost occurs when you've made higher covenants and you shed the blood (kill) of an innocent.

There may be others, but that's the only clear-cut way outlined in scripture.

And since that can't happen until AFTER baptism anyway, then it can be washed away, even.

Trouble is that if you did that you're probably serving time, and I don't believe you can be baptized while you're serving time.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? or the atonement doesn't cover?

What does it mean to sin agianst the Holy Ghost?

I have been thinking about these subjects lately.

I believe there is a misconception as to the purpose and nature of Baptism. While I agree that baptism is a necessary gospel principle and ordinance, the nature and purpose behind the Baptism is not for the "washing away of sins" as most assume it to be, but for the recognition that we are putting to death the Old man and rising in the newness of life Christ offers. Baptism, essentially mirrors the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, baptism is the reflection of the Atonement that Christ has already provided unto man. In that, Mankind, by the Grace of God receives the pardon before baptism and is created, or "born again" by the power and authority of God in that he becomes a new creation. Baptism, therefore, is the outer manifestation of that very inner personal and intimate encounter a new believer experiences.

The Apostle Paul outlines the significance and purpose of Baptism is reflected in Romans 6 where Paul talks about how, much like Christ was crucified, our sinful nature is crucified with Christ and that just as Christ was buried, we are buried and just as Christ rose again in exalted Glory, so shall we be exalted in glory. Baptism is just not an essential ordinance of the Gospel, but it is (as stated before) an outer performance as to the inner manifestation of our change from carnal sensual destitute sinful man before God, but changed to a holy justified bride of Christ presented unblemished and atoned for. This also reflects both the physical and reality of that Baptism also signifies that as we die in our mortality, we will be buried and eventually will be resurrected in a new life. Thus, baptism is a dual purpose doctrine.

Thus, it is not the baptismal act that atones and cleanses us from Sin, but the power and Grace of God. And it is dangerous to say that God's Grace is insufficient to save those whom God desires to save, no matter how grevious the sin is. Why? Because if one is guilty in violating one principle of the law, they are guilty of violating all of the law in its totality. Thus, grace is total in its effectual power.

Simply put, God's Grace saves us and changes our nature from sinful carnal man to a new creation and spirit in Jesus Christ. Baptism is the outer manifestation of us putting to death the old man (crucifying the old man) and being buried in Christ, only to rise in newness of Life in Jesus Christ.

Hope that makes sense.

[seeker]

So after baptism transgressions will be judged at a higher standard and after going thru the temple still higher stadards. It may be safer to stay a heathen.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

So after baptism transgressions will be judged at a higher standard and after going thru the temple still higher stadards. It may be safer to stay a heathen.

This is where the process of sanctification comes into place. The whole purpose behind the BoM teaching that we are saved by grace after all that we can do.

[Justice]

I have studied this for many, many years... and the conclusion I have drawn is that the Atonement is infinite and eternal, and as long as you repent, any sin can be forgiven. If there is a sin that is repented of that cannot be covered then it is not infinite and eternal.

A prerequisite for committing an unpardonable sin is that it implies it is not repented of. In the case of committing "the" unpardonable sin we can assume the person did not repent of it, whatever you believe the specifics of that sin to be.

[bytor2112]

Baptism is a sacred covenant. If we first have faith in Jesus Christ and second repent of our sins, we can then be baptized and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. The atonement of Jesus Christ is what makes it possible for our sins to be cleansed at Baptism and every week when we renew our baptismal covenants and any other time that we transgress if we truely repent.(... a mighty change of heart).

As far as sinning against the Holy Ghost.... I am not sure that we have the knowledge necessary to commit that sin. Our knowlege would need to be certain.... like the Prophets and Apostles. I don't think that murderers can be baptized, perhaps repentance is available to them later... not sure.

[Traveler]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? or the atonement doesn't cover?

What does it mean to sin agianst the Holy Ghost?

I have been thinking about these subjects lately.

Baptism will not wash away any sin that we desire to keep in eternity. It will wash away only those sins that that we do not want to keep.

The Traveler

[MarginOfError]

Great comments by many! I will also echo that baptism itself does nothing to for remitting sins. Repentance is the process by which sins are remitted and baptism is the way by which we obtain Christ's guarantee that he will forgive them.

As far as sinning against the Holy Ghost.... I am not sure that we have the knowledge necessary to commit that sin. Our knowledge would need to be certain.... like the Prophets and Apostles.

I'll respectfully disagree. I think we'd all be surprised how many people are capable of committing this sin.

[hordak]

I'll respectfully disagree. I think we'd all be surprised how many people are capable of committing this sin.

so who would be capable of this? What is the criteria?

[bytor2112]

The oft-mentioned unpardonable sin is of monumental import. Of this, the Prophet Joseph Smith has said:

All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

When a man begins to be an enemy to this work, he hunts me, he seeks to kill me, and never ceases to thirst for my blood. He gets the spirit of the devil--the same spirit that they had who crucified the Lord of Life�the same spirit that sins against the Holy Ghost. You cannot save such persons; you cannot bring them to repentance; they make open war, like the devil, and awful is the consequence.14 1

Sin Against the Holy Ghost

The sins unto death may be thought of as somewhat difficult to define and limit with precision. From the words of Joseph Smith quoted above we note that "... many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" will fall into this category. We cannot definitely identify them individually since it is impossible for us to know the extent of their knowledge, the depth of their enlightenment, and the sureness of their testimonies before their fall.

When one has received the Holy Ghost he has a companion who will constantly warn and teach and inspire him. (See Moro. 10:5.) If not driven away through uncleanness or other persistent wickedness the Holy Ghost will always bear increasing witness to gospel truth. The potency of his influence is emphasized in this explanation by President Joseph Fielding Smith:

[Misshalfway]

Sinning against the Holy Ghost occurs when you've made higher covenants and you shed the blood (kill) of an innocent.

There may be others, but that's the only clear-cut way outlined in scripture.

And since that can't happen until AFTER baptism anyway, then it can be washed away, even.

Trouble is that if you did that you're probably serving time, and I don't believe you can be baptized while you're serving time.

I have never heard that murder was the essential of the sin of the HG. If that was true, the David of the OT would fall into this catagory. And I believe he was forgiven, just not restored to the same blessings he was once trusted with.

[Justice]

Well, that one commits murder isn't the idea, necessarily. Murder can be forgiven through honest repentance, as you have indicated.

It is speaking more of the murder of the innocent, meaning Jesus Christ. It is when you openly crucify Jesus afresh and wish that He and His efforts would fail, and you actively seek to destroy His Church, knowing, like Nehor, that it is true. You become His enemy, and there is no forgiveness for you according to the Law of Justice.

It makes no sense to me how someone could do this, but it's clear some will.

[Snow]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? or the atonement doesn't cover?

Yes - for example, buying or listening to a Barry Manilow or Abba, or Hannah Montana CD.

[bytor2112]

c'mon...Oh Mandy.... your kidding right????

[Seeker1]

Nicely said SeattleTruthSeeker. Baptism is indeed the outer representation of our inner rebirth. Sometimes I think we members of the church dwell too much on "checklist righteousness" rather than on the two commandments upon which hang "all the law and the prophets"...Love God will all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. As Augustine said, "Love. Then do as you will."

What Mathew relates the Savior saying in the Sermon on the Mount as "Be ye therefore perfect" , Luke relates as "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father in Heaven is merciful". I have always thought that, ultimately, exaltation is a heart condition. From what I read, Love is what life is about.

[Moksha]

Are there sins that baptism can't wash away?

You are probably too young to have voted for Nixon.

[Listener]

In the New Testament, there is only a single mention of the sin against the Holy Spirit. There are some who would argue that in context Jesus is speaking of those who ascribe the work of the Spirit to Satan. As the enemies of Christ were trying to discredit Christ by identifying his source of power as from the Evil One, it is only this situation that is being referred to.

However, the answers above are in the right spirit. Atonement lacks nothing...but we are still encouraged to endure. And may it be so for us all.

[MarginOfError]

so who would be capable of this? What is the criteria?

I'm not sure if my words will be as clear as this is in my head, so please bear with me.

The criterion is having a perfect knowledge of the existence of God and the truth of the Gospel.

I won't claim to know all the ways such knowledge can be conferred, but the most obvious would be the immediate presence of a member of the Godhead.

[hordak]

I'm not sure if my words will be as clear as this is in my head, so please bear with me.

The criterion is having a perfect knowledge of the existence of God and the truth of the Gospel.

I won't claim to know all the ways such knowledge can be conferred, but the most obvious would be the immediate presence of a member of the Godhead.

What would be considered perfect knowledge? It wouldn't be accepting baptism would it?

[MarginOfError]

It would not be accepting baptism. Whatever it is, it's in the spectrum of experiences that are so sacred and special that I wouldn't discuss them in public. But my point is, those kinds of experiences aren't unique to the Apostles.

[hordak]

It would not be accepting baptism. Whatever it is, it's in the spectrum of experiences that are so sacred and special that I wouldn't discuss them in public. But my point is, those kinds of experiences aren't unique to the Apostles.

So it wouldn't be your average "run of the mill" church experiences. Are you talking temple marriage or something more personal sacred?