Sorting It Out

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Ray@Jul 30 2004, 10:30 AM

annelizayoung,

...Can you think of anyone who will always tell you the truth? I can only think of one person, or actually more than one as long as they are all God, and I recommend that you speak and listen to Him.

Thank you for your input. I know that the LDS church and I suppose the RLDS church place a lot of credence in "the burning bosom" to verify which religion is true.

What confuses me is: [1] how RLDS and LDS sincere folk claiming a "burning in the bosom" experience can come to opposite convictions; and [2] how I can distinguish this "burning in the bosom" is really from God. Certainly the evil one loves to deceive. Know what I mean?

I find it helpful to also examine the history and claims of a religious leader and set aside those who are not what they claim to be or say things that are untrue.

How do we know Brigham Young was appointed as the sucessor to Joseph Smith? Some of his statements in his Journals and Discourses really cause me to have concerns about him. His actions as described by my namesake (AEY) cause me concern. How can Celestial Marriage later be set aside if it is so critical -- Doctrine and Covenants 132 really sounds like something that is not optional.

How could Emma live with Joseph all those years and not embrace Brigham as the successor?

I am also disturbed by the concept of a Heavenly Mother. Do both RDLS and LDS teach this?

That's enought for now. Thanks in advance to all here. This is an unusual place.

AEY

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jul 30 2004, 10:40 AM

The church has looked into seeking membership in the WCC, which would require them to become more mainstream.

However, these two items are not connected with each other. The membership issue in the WCC has been present for close to 30 years and has been sought by some (not all) because they want to be more mainstream, thinking that that will give them a greater chance for reaching out (or something like that).

The WCC (As in World Council of Churches)???

That is a haven for ultra liberal Protestants. That's a big turn off, in my opinion. I do not consider that "mainstream" any more that I consider Howard Dean and Dennis Kuchinich moderate politicians!

Pardon the political analogy. Is that OK here? {YIKES}

AEY

[Jenda]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 30 2004, 10:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (annelizayoung @ Jul 30 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jul 30 2004, 10:40 AM

The church has looked into seeking membership in the WCC, which would require them to become more mainstream.

However, these two items are not connected with each other.  The membership issue in the WCC has been present for close to 30 years and has been sought by some (not all) because they want to be more mainstream, thinking that that will give them a greater chance for reaching out (or something like that).

The WCC (As in World Council of Churches)???

That is a haven for ultra liberal Protestants. That's a big turn off, in my opinion. I do not consider that "mainstream" any more that I consider Howard Dean and Dennis Kuchinich moderate politicians!

Pardon the political analogy. Is that OK here? {YIKES}

AEY

Yeah, that is why I am a restorationist. I don't want to have anything to do with liberal protestantism.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (annelizayoung @ Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Jul 30 2004, 06:16 AM

I feel like this thread is leading people away from the church, and that really bothers me, thats not what this site is intended for.

Yes everyone of different faiths should be able to come here and discuss there beliefs, but I dont like such comments telling another to chose another faith. Youre asking the wrong party to confirm the truth to you.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all his rightousness, and the same shall be added unto you.

Go to him who knows all, and ask humbly in his name with faith.

Spencer

I appreciate your comments and the others. I do not need some to tell me what to choose, I will take that responsibility. I am interested in understanding the opinions of others and learning about the differences between the LDS and RLDS. The input has been good so far and I will have more questions when I have a bit more time.

AEY (who happens to be a he not a she)

Did I call you a she? Or is that just a random response. my appologies if so.

Spencer

[Ray]

Originally posted by annelizayoung@ Jul 30 2004, 10:06 AM

Thank you for your input. I know that the LDS church and I suppose the RLDS church place a lot of credence in "the burning bosom" to verify which religion is true.

What confuses me is: [1] how RLDS and LDS sincere folk claiming a "burning in the bosom" experience can come to opposite convictions; and [2] how I can distinguish this "burning in the bosom" is really from God. Certainly the evil one loves to deceive. Know what I mean?

[1] RLDS and LDS disagree in the same way that other people disagree, we simply have different perspectives about different issues. RLDS and LDS do pretty much agree that the Book of Mormon is inspired scripture, but we disagree on other issues, much like how RLDS, LDS, and other Christians accept the Bible as inspired scripture while disagreeing on other issues. Where there is agreement we are one, but we are not one on every issue.

[2]This is a matter of Faith, and while I can recommend searching this Forum and the scriptures to see what we and other people have to say about it, you ultimately need to go to God for your answers and trust what He tells you. A personal relationship with God is more important than anything else.

I find it helpful to also examine the history and claims of a religious leader and set aside those who are not what they claim to be or say things that are untrue.

I do that too, while trusting God to help me see things as they actually are. Lucifer and his agents are pretty good at giving us impressions or ideas to alter the way we see or feel about things, but God can overcome those impressions by His assurance of the truth.

How do we know Brigham Young was appointed as the successor to Joseph Smith? Some of his statements in his Journals and Discourses really cause me to have concerns about him. His actions as described by my namesake (AEY) cause me concern.

Brigham Young succeeding Joseph Smith Jr. is a matter of Church history. Have you read that thread I gave you the link to in my other post?

Also bear in mind that people say things about somebody based on how they see things, which, as I said, can be tainted with false impressions.

How can Celestial Marriage later be set aside if it is so critical -- Doctrine and Covenants 132 really sounds like something that is not optional.

Doctrine & Covenants 132 isn’t about plural marriage, it’s about how associations can continue forever. You can include plural marriage as a form of Celestial marriage, but Celestial marriage is not entirely confined to plural marriage. A marriage that has been sealed by the power of the Priesthood, which is the power of God, will continue forever because God has authorized it, as long as both persons remain faithful to each other and Him throughout eternity. If a man and woman are not wed by the power of the priesthood, their association will not continue forever because God will not accept something that was authorized by only Man and Man’s government. What a man says about how things will be in heaven isn’t worth anything unless the words of that man are authorized by God.

How could Emma live with Joseph all those years and not embrace Brigham as the successor?

How could a person know a fine, upstanding member of the Church of Jesus Christ and not become a member of the Church themselves? How could a child be raised by good parents who are members of the Church and refuse to follow them? The problem here is the same as it is for everybody else. Everybody sees things differently, so everybody makes choices depending on who they trust and who they rely on for guidance.

I am also disturbed by the concept of a Heavenly Mother. Do both RDLS and LDS teach this?

I don’t know whether RLDS believe this or not.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by annelizayoung@Jul 30 2004, 10:17 AM

The WCC (As in World Council of Churches)???

That is a haven for ultra liberal Protestants. That's a big turn off, in my opinion.

AEY - How do you define ultra liberal Protestants?

I checked out the WCC website and it seems like a reasonable organization. Under this list:

List of member churches, associate member churches and national council bodies

I found a variety of different churches, including Catholic.

What do you object to regarding the WCC?

M.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Spencer@Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM

Did I call you a she? Or is that just a random response. my appologies if so.

I think it was someone else. I just tacked that on to the post to you rather than a a separate post. Sorry for the mixup.

Not that being a she is less noble!

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jul 30 2004, 12:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Jul 30 2004, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--annelizayoung@Jul 30 2004, 10:17 AM

The WCC (As in World Council of Churches)???

That is a haven for ultra liberal Protestants. That's a big turn off, in my opinion.

AEY - How do you define ultra liberal Protestants?

I checked out the WCC website and it seems like a reasonable organization. Under this list:

List of member churches, associate member churches and national council bodies

I found a variety of different churches, including Catholic.

What do you object to regarding the WCC?

M.

Some Catholics are very liberal especially the ecumenical types. The recent Popes (from Vatican II forward) have been more ecumenical than traditional. The Jesuits, via liberation theology fused Catholicism and marxism in Latin America.

The UMC (United Methodist Church) is very liberal. By very liberal I mean they have left their original theological convictions and distinctives and have compromised truth on the altar of unity. Liberal Protestants are the historical heir of Biblical higher criticism and the social gospel of the late 18th century. They are agressive political leftists. The United Methodists in the 60s donated $10,000 to Angela Davis. Just a few examples. More could be cited.

I understand Jenda's concern about joining with these groups that hold the Bible in low esteem.

AEY

[Maureen]

Thanks AEY for the reply.

Another question - why did you choose a girl's name as your Username?

M.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Maureen@Jul 30 2004, 04:14 PM

Thanks AEY for the reply.

Another question - why did you choose a girl's name as your Username?

M.

In my initial post I answered your question: "Then I read Ann Eliza Young's book (that's where I got my name) and I found myself very sympathetic to her and also to Emma."

Here's is her picture. You can find her book by googling "Wife no. 19" ... I'd provide the link but I am not sure that is OK here.

Her story is powerful! Here are her dedicatory words...

TO THE

M O R M O N W I V E S O F U T A H

<span style='font-family:Arial'>AEY

[BYR]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 30 2004, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (annelizayoung @ Jul 30 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Jul 30 2004, 04:14 PM

Thanks AEY for the reply.

Another question - why did you choose a girl's name as your Username?

M.

In my initial post I answered your question: "Then I read Ann Eliza Young's book (that's where I got my name) and I found myself very sympathetic to her and also to Emma."

Here's is her picture. You can find her book by googling "Wife no. 19" ... I'd provide the link but I am not sure that is OK here.

Her story is powerful! Here are her dedicatory words...

TO THE

M O R M O N W I V E S O F U T A H

<span style='font-family:Arial'>AEY

Maybe sometime Brigham Young will get his side of the story out.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by BYR@Jul 30 2004, 05:57 PM

AEY

Maybe sometime Brigham Young will get his side of the story out.

BYR,

I understand your point. However, I have read a number of passages where he discusses his wives in less than flattering terms. In one passage he basically tells them to shape up or get out. Did he not brag about his virility and ability to attract young girls?

These comments are really troubling coming from a man I am considering as a godly prophet. I hope you don't take this wrong or get offended.

I just really struggle with this episode in the LDS side of the ledger. I am hoping that the RLDS presents a better track record.

BTW, I have issues with RLDS, so don't think I am picking on you. Fair enough?

AEY

[BYR]

Originally posted by annelizayoung@Jul 30 2004, 07:45 PM

AEY

Maybe sometime Brigham Young will get his side of the story out.

BYR,

I understand your point. However, I have read a number of passages where he discusses his wives in less than flattering terms. In one passage he basically tells them to shape up or get out. Did he not brag about his virility and ability to attract young girls?

These comments are really troubling coming from a man I am considering as a godly prophet. I hope you don't take this wrong or get offended.

I just really struggle with this episode in the LDS side of the ledger. I am hoping that the RLDS presents a better track record.

BTW, I have issues with RLDS, so don't think I am picking on you. Fair enough?

AEY

Since I see the RLDS as apostate, why would I have a problem?

And to your point about BY bragging. I look at that in a couple of ways. He was top dog and he was asserting his position. You see that type of behavior all the time.

The other way is something you see in music, Blues for example. He is just talking up his position to entertain. (And pick up a few more chicks.)