ruthiechan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) I met a woman in Yuba City. She was beautiful and she bore the Love of Christ so strongly that she was brilliant, and glowing and white. Her skin was black. Well, a deep brown really, but she was a negro. She was "white" because of the Spirit within her. Edited July 8, 2008 by ruthiechan
Elphaba Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 I met a woman in Yuba City. She was beautiful and she bore the Love of Christ so strongly that she was brilliant, and glowing and white. Her skin was black. Well, a deep brown really, but she was a negro. She was white because of the Spirit within her.Hi Ruthie,My question is sincere, as I don't know what you mean.Are you talking metaphorically? Or did you literally see the "brilliant and glowing and white, as if her spirit were emanating? Or was it something else?I'm just not sure what you mean.Thanks,Elphaba
rameumptom Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 I think she meant that the spirit emanated a glow around the face. I've seen this on occasion, as well, with people who exude spirituality. The Bible has an example, where Moses descends from the Mount and his face glows so brightly that he has to wear a veil for the people to approach him.
Moksha Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 Skin color is a genetic trait and has nothing whatsoever to do with any degree of religiousity or holiness. It is unfortunate that is was written as such. Our burden is to use the midrash process and view these scriptures as having a meaning beyond skin color. Let us instead worry about the condition of our souls rather than their color.
prospectmom Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 Color of our skins is the least of all our problems........ Lets concentrate on ones we have control over can change or fix or need fixing. Color is not an issue for me at all and its sad others think that way
VisionOfLehi Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 Alma 13: 12 12 Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.Alma 34: 36 36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb. So... I was baptized, and my garments were made white. I must've been pretty sinful when I immediately put on black dress pants afterward. WAIT! There's that sarcasm again Anyway... I think it's obvious that this is not referring to the AMOUNT of pigment in our skin (And yes, it's amount, not color! Everyone has the same color pigment, concentration is what determines the apparent "color") but the state of our soul.Maybe in the next life, in perfected bodies, we'll attain a perfect amount of pigment, but that's just conjecture and rather pointless to discuss, IMO.Be warned that this thread will not be a soap box for anything close to white superiority. Tread lightly, because I'm very intolerant of racism, and I'm sure other mods are as well.
Elphaba Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 I think she meant that the spirit emanated a glow around the face. I've seen this on occasion, as well, with people who exude spirituality.You should see how luminous my skin is.I never, ever tan; now I know why. It's because I am glowing. In fact, I like to joke that if I were to go to heaven (stop laughing), even Heavenly Father would have to squint.Elphie
Moksha Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 It's because I am glowing. Elphie When you cool down it can be an afterglow...
rameumptom Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 And why shouldn't you glow, Elphaba? Each of us has access to the Light of Christ, conscience or intuition (as in woman's intuition). This light fills all space and is in all things and through all things. It gives to all mankind (and womankind) inspiration and guidance. This light is not reserved solely to Christians or Mormons, but to all. And those who seek greater light and truth will obtain that greater light and knowledge.
Elphaba Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 And why shouldn't you glow, Elphaba? Each of us has access to the Light of Christ, conscience or intuition (as in woman's intuition). This light fills all space and is in all things and through all things. It gives to all mankind (and womankind) inspiration and guidance. This light is not reserved solely to Christians or Mormons, but to all. And those who seek greater light and truth will obtain that greater light and knowledge.That was lovely Ram.I admit I am confused as to why a number of people on this site assume I am an anti-Mormon without having ever talked to me. This was not the case on TALK. So you words are very kind and soothing, as I am feeling a bit beat up. Did you ever think you'd hear that from me?!Elphaba
VisionOfLehi Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 You misread them, Elph. That or they're typoing. You're Anti-Moron.
MarginOfError Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 And then there are people like me, who are just pro morons!
VisionOfLehi Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 Are there active and inactive morons? Hey, have all the references to "fair" "white" been quoted already? I'd like to take a good look at all of them.
ruthiechan Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 I think she meant that the spirit emanated a glow around the face. I've seen this on occasion, as well, with people who exude spirituality.The Bible has an example, where Moses descends from the Mount and his face glows so brightly that he has to wear a veil for the people to approach him.Yes, that is what I mean. But it was not like a halo or anything, but more like she was the source of the light.
rameumptom Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 That was lovely Ram.I admit I am confused as to why a number of people on this site assume I am an anti-Mormon without having ever talked to me. This was not the case on TALK. So you words are very kind and soothing, as I am feeling a bit beat up. Did you ever think you'd hear that from me?!ElphabaThis is why I believe. Miracles DO happen!
rameumptom Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 I believe that many members are gun shy, for two reasons. First, we have a heritage of being driven from place to place that we strongly remember. Second, the experiences we have with true anti-Mormons can often leave many of us quick on the trigger to judge others that do not readily support what we believe. This is why I appreciate the current direction by the Brethren on our use of the Internet. We are to show kindness and share our spiritual experience, not rip into others who seek to destroy us. Too often we see someone oppose an LDS thought and instinctively think, "there's someone attacking what is near and dear to me and threatening my Church's existence!" Often, we see this in some of those who have left the Church. I know I have. These are the type that call Dan Peterson either a moron or a paid mercenary, when he is neither. I have no problems with those who have honest disagreements. Why you have not received a witness as I have, I do not know. Perhaps the Lord has a reason. Perhaps when you do receive it, it will be that much more wonderful to you, after having wandered in the world with uncertainty. I do not know. All I know is not everyone gains the witness in an instance or perhaps even in this lifetime. Abraham Lincoln actually was a judge in at least one of Joseph Smith's trials. But he never converted. In fact, he opposed Mormon lifestyle by calling polygamy one of the two vestiges of barbarism (along with slavery). Yet, I hope and believe that he's embraced the gospel in the Spirit World, and rejoicing in having received a witness of the glorious truth when it was time for him to receive it. Imagine what would have happened had he gained a witness of Joseph Smith in this life. How would the Civil War have gone? Lincoln would never have been elected president as a Mormon. Perhaps God needed him in that spot during this life. Only God knows. But I will share with you that God has enriched my life, and gave me a testimony when I wasn't exactly looking for it. Yet, as I look back on my life, I've seen how life's experiences prepared me for the day when I gained my initial witness. And I have found God to be loving and patient. He can wait for us to accept the gospel in the Spirit World, as needed. And he will embrace all of us when we do accept him. I do not think you are a "atheist, and proud to be one" type. You aren't the type who seeks to destroy the concept of God in the world. You are just honest enough to state you have not yet experienced that spiritual epiphany, and are open to receiving it when God is open to giving it to you (if he exists). I can't fault you for that. Nor can I fault you for taking a hard look at LDS history and beliefs. You honestly consider the evidence, which is all anyone can ask. Many LDS do not like the bad marks in our history. Joseph F. and Joseph Fielding Smith both tried to gloss over much of it in their histories and writings. Perhaps they sought to retain a better memory of their fathers, who knows? But we live in a day when we have to be willing to look at all the data, and prayerfully consider the available facts, knowing we don't have all the data or truth. Then, we must be guided by our conscience/light of Christ, and by the Spirit in knowing right from wrong. And even if your personal light occasionally glows a little green (Elphaba's curse or blessing?), you still can glow.
Elphaba Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 You misread them, Elph. That or they're typoing.You're Anti-Moron. See VOL, you are hilarious, adorable, cute, sweet, polite, compassionate, thoughtful, witty, and best of all, to me, you're intelligent. I have a thing for intelligent guys. (Don't worry, I'm not hitting on you, even though. . . if I were 30 years younger. . . hmm ) Oh, I forgot one--you are a GREAT time at a party!Elphaba
bert10 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Deleted. Site Rules 2 and 11. Edited July 11, 2008 by MaidservantX
VisionOfLehi Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 See VOL, you are hilarious, adorable, cute, sweet, polite, compassionate, thoughtful, witty, and best of all, to me, you're intelligent. I have a thing for intelligent guys. (Don't worry, I'm not hitting on you, even though. . . if I were 30 years younger. . . hmm ) Oh, I forgot one--you are a GREAT time at a party!ElphabaSo... Got daughter? Niece? Younger female relative?
Snow Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 I'm of the firm belief that Nephites were white skinned, like me and the settlers of America. My friend, however, is not. I'm not interested in proving myself right or my friend wrong. I just want to know what you guys think.My belief comes from this passage, 1 Nephi 13:15 "And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain."My friend doesn't think that I understand the passage correctly. I then pointed him to this passage, "And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." 1 Nephi 12:23Were they white (pale like people of an Aryan race) or did they look much like the Indians of America do now days?President Kimball thought that they were white that then became dark and also believe that those that accepted the restored gospel in these latter-days were actually turning white again. Needless to say, he was mistaken. If a prophet could be mistaken about what color people were or weren't turning, it's possible that others could be mistaken about what color they were to begin with.
VisionOfLehi Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 In Jewish law you can wash a big all you want... Completely sterilize it... But it's still not Kosher. It's unclean. In parallel, those like the "dark" Lamanites are unclean. They are not Kosher, so to speak. When they are born again of the spirit, they become clean. They become Kosher. From the LDS standpoint, pigs are considered "Kosher." Okay to consume (unlike alcohol.) But do you think pigs changed color when that happened? Not likely. But rather, it's a change of the spirit.
Elphaba Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 So... Got daughter? Niece? Younger female relative?You need to look at my profile! But be warned, she's about to be taken.I do, however, have a few nieces that I think are still available. Hmmm.....The last time I played matchmaker on this site was a disaster! But I'll keep my eyes open, just for you!Elphie
MarginOfError Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 I know I said I wasn't going to contribute to this anymore, but I read bert's last post and it finally makes sense to me now. He's right...when someone is born again of the Spirit, they truly will turn white. Conversely, when someone becomes wicked, they turn black. So, for this reason, I propose we all start buying more Michael Jackson CD's, because we should be supporting righteous people. Similarly, I will now be buying every Jenna Jameson video I can get my hands on, cause she's white. And I'll also pick up smoking, because the CEO of Phillip Morris is white. The next time I'm at the temple, I'll refuse to participate in the ordinance if the ordinance worker is black, because we can't trust eternal things to people who are so obviously not born of the Spirit. That just makes so much more sense than saying that we have neither the authority nor the knowledge to determine who is or isn't born of the Spirit. So, if any of you need me today, I'll be in the TV room supporting Jenna and all her righteous white sisters.
rameumptom Posted July 10, 2008 Report Posted July 10, 2008 MarginOfError, Don't forget that Helvecio Martins was a 70 for several years! Does that mean we had a person who wasn't born of the Spirit as a General Authority? And what do we do with people of other colors? Asians? Lamanites? How about a blond with a sun tan? Are they only somewhat filled with the spirit? Why doesn't God place a curse of blackness on everyone in the pornography industry? Or drug dealers? Or child abusers? Wouldn't it make it that much easier for us to determine who really is righteous and who isn't? We could actually convict people solely on the color of their skin, rather than the crime they did. Why did God only make skin color changes in the past? The reality is, we are talking about a person's spiritual makeup when we are talking light and dark. While Pres Kimball felt that Lamanite skin could lighten, his concept was somewhat flawed by this very argument MoE and I have made. Remember, we are talking prophets and apostles, yes. But they were making assumptions on things to make sense of scripture from their perspective.
Elphaba Posted July 11, 2008 Report Posted July 11, 2008 I have mentioned somewhere on the site that I never tan. Therefore, according to Bert's logic, I should already be a god. Perhaps you'll all take me seriously from now on! Actually, I am willing to let it all hang out in Sin City, as I really want that tan! What ludicrous, and bigoted, hogwash. Elphaba
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