Elder Haight

[liahonagirl]

When it rains, it pours. There are now 2 vacancies in the 12.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by liahonagirl@Jul 31 2004, 01:57 PM

When it rains, it pours. There are now 2 vacancies in the 12.

Who is in line to be the next President when Mr. Hinckley passes away? He's pretty elderly too, isn't he?

AEY

[liahonagirl]

President Monson is the President of the Quorum of the 12

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by liahonagirl@Jul 31 2004, 02:41 PM

President Monson is the President of the Quorum of the 12

So would Monson take Hinckley's place. How do they choose a replacement?

AEY

[Snow]

They can do anything they want, however tradition is very strong. The Brethren operate in a collegial manner (Characterized by or having authority or responsibility shared equally by each of a group of colleagues.), so they work diligently toward consensus.

The tradition is that when the President dies, the counselors drop back in the the group of apostles and then the most senior member is traditionally chosen.

As I recall, when asked how he got the position, Gordon B. Hinckley (or maybe it was someone else) said that he was called as an apostle and then he didn't die longer than everyone else ahead of him.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 31 2004, 03:28 PM

They can do anything they want, however tradition is very strong. The Brethren operate in a collegial manner (Characterized by or having authority or responsibility shared equally by each of a group of colleagues.), so they work diligently toward consensus.

The tradition is that when the President dies, the counselors drop back in the the group of apostles and then the most senior member is traditionally chosen.

As I recall, when asked how he got the position, Gordon B. Hinckley (or maybe it was someone else) said that he was called as an apostle and then he didn't die longer than everyone else ahead of him.

Snow

Very interesting (and nice dancing shoes B) ).

Who is the most senior member of the group of the apostles?

AEY

[shanstress70]

I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but isn't the prophet of the church supposedly determined by what God says?

[Snow]

Maybe, and maybe God delegates that choosing of that calling to those that he has already choosen to preside.

Or maybe he knew in advance who would outlast the others.

They are all called as prophets, seers and revelators. They can all do it.

[Guest Traci]

Originally posted by Snow@Jul 31 2004, 04:50 PM

They are all called as prophets, seers and revelators. They can all do it.

If, indeed, they can all do it, why does it seem that they never do it? When and exactly what was the last "prophecy" or "revelation" you heard coming down from on high, i.e., the COB?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Traci+Jul 31 2004, 05:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traci @ Jul 31 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 31 2004, 04:50 PM

They are all called as prophets, seers and revelators. They can all do it.

If, indeed, they can all do it, why does it seem that they never do it? When and exactly what was the last "prophecy" or "revelation" you heard coming down from on high, i.e., the COB?

How exactly does it seem that "they never do it?" Do what? Receive revelation? How would you possibly know that they don't receive revelation? How often do you require that there be a prophesy or a revelation "coming down?"

[Snow]

Originally posted by Kevin+Jul 31 2004, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kevin @ Jul 31 2004, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Traci@Jul 31 2004, 05:14 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 31 2004, 04:50 PM

They are all called as prophets, seers and revelators. They can all do it.

If, indeed, they can all do it, why does it seem that they never do it? When and exactly what was the last "prophecy" or "revelation" you heard coming down from on high, i.e., the COB?

How exactly does it seem that "they never do it?"

The layperson's understanding of prophet is 'one who foretells the future.'

[Jenda]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jul 31 2004, 02:49 PM

I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but isn't the prophet of the church supposedly determined by what God says?

There is a section in the D&C that states that the P,S,R, & PHP has the right to designate his successor. I guess that the president of the LDS church has never opted to follow that route, however, the RLDS have done it since the beginning when Joseph Smith, Jr., designated Joseph Smith, III.

[annelizayoung]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jul 31 2004, 08:40 PM

I guess that the president of the LDS church has never opted to follow that route, however, the RLDS have done it since the beginning when Joseph Smith, Jr., designated Joseph Smith, III.

Jenda,

You rascal, you. I caught that.

AEY

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jul 31 2004, 07:40 PM

There is a section in the D&C that states that the P,S,R, & PHP has the right to designate his successor. I guess that the president of the LDS church has never opted to follow that route, however, the RLDS have done it since the beginning when Joseph Smith, Jr., designated Joseph Smith, III.

Joseph Smith was in fact ambiguous about his successor, whoever that turned out to be. It seems clear that he knew his death was approaching. He could have taken clear and definate action to clarify the matter but he did not. Joseph Smith III was just one of many competing claimants, and not the only claiming that JS directly appointed him. Joseph proposed more than one way for a member of the First Presidency to succeed him, left the relative priority of the various quorums in ambiguous balance, performed secret ordinations and sugested more than one way thata brother of son might suceed him.

Here is a list of those that had a claim on succession:

The Quorum of the Twelve - Brigham Young.

The First Presidency - Sidney Rigdon.

The Navoo Stake High Council - William Marks

The Quorum of the Annointed

Ordained Successors - David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, Hyrum Smith

Secret Appointment - Whitme

The Council of the Fifty

Lyman Wright

Alpheus Culter

James J. Strang

William Smith

Joseph Smith III

David Hyrum Smith.

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Snow+Jul 31 2004, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jul 31 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jul 31 2004, 07:40 PM

There is a section in the D&C that states that the P,S,R, & PHP has the right to designate his successor.  I guess that the president of the LDS church has never opted to follow that route, however, the RLDS have done it since the beginning when Joseph Smith, Jr., designated Joseph Smith, III.

Joseph Smith was in fact ambiguous about his successor, whoever that turned out to be. It seems clear that he knew his death was approaching. He could have taken clear and definate action to clarify the matter but he did not. Joseph Smith III was just one of many competing claimants, and not the only claiming that JS directly appointed him. Joseph proposed more than one way for a member of the First Presidency to succeed him, left the relative priority of the various quorums in ambiguous balance, performed secret ordinations and sugested more than one way thata brother of son might suceed him.

Here is a list of those that had a claim on succession:

The Quorum of the Twelve - Brigham Young.

The First Presidency - Sidney Rigdon.

The Navoo Stake High Council - William Marks

The Quorum of the Annointed

Ordained Successors - David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, Hyrum Smith

Secret Appointment - Whitme

The Council of the Fifty

Lyman Wright

Alpheus Culter

James J. Strang

William Smith

Joseph Smith III

David Hyrum Smith.

Just out of curiosity, did Joseph Smith ever specifically state that his sucessor would be a prophet that would receive revelations from god that would steer Jesus' church?

[srm]

Originally posted by Jenda+Jul 31 2004, 07:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jul 31 2004, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--shanstress70@Jul 31 2004, 02:49 PM

I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but isn't the prophet of the church supposedly determined by what God says?

There is a section in the D&C that states that the P,S,R, & PHP has the right to designate his successor. I guess that the president of the LDS church has never opted to follow that route, however, the RLDS have done it since the beginning when Joseph Smith, Jr., designated Joseph Smith, III.

I don't doubt that, had he come west with the Church, he would have become President. In fact that is what happened to Hyrum's son Joseph F. In fact Brigham said as much.

[Guest]

Originally posted by bat+Jul 31 2004, 10:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Jul 31 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Bat

Just out of curiosity, did Joseph Smith ever specifically state that his sucessor would be a prophet that would receive revelations from god that would steer Jesus' church?

From what I've learned, no. Young just took the reigns. I could be mistaken though.

[Guest bat]

From what I've learned, no. Young just took the reigns. I could be mistaken though.

That's pretty much my understanding too. I wonder what is the reason that the leaders of the LDS church are considered to be "prophets". Other than the obvious fact that they are sustained as such by anybody that wants a temple recommend.

[Ray]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 31 2004, 02:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (annelizayoung @ Jul 31 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 31 2004, 03:28 PM

They can do anything they want, however tradition is very strong. The Brethren operate in a collegial manner (Characterized by or having authority or responsibility shared equally by each of a group of colleagues.), so they work diligently toward consensus.

The tradition is that when the President dies, the counselors drop back in the the group of apostles and then the most senior member is traditionally chosen.

As I recall, when asked how he got the position, Gordon B. Hinckley (or maybe it was someone else) said that he was called as an apostle and then he didn't die longer than everyone else ahead of him.

Snow

Very interesting (and nice dancing shoes B) ).

Who is the most senior member of the group of the apostles?

AEY

I don't know, but I do know that seniority is based on how long a person has been an apostle, not on how old they are. Counselors in the first presidency are apostles too, btw.

Anyway, I'm going to miss Elder Haight. He was (and continues to be) a very nice person.

[srm]

Snow

Very interesting (and nice dancing shoes  B) ).

Who is the most senior member of the group of the apostles?

Hinckley then Monson then Packard.

Counselors in the first presidency are apostles too, btw.

Usually, but not always

[Snow]

Elder Haight was, at one time, mayor of Palo Alto California. He stepped down to accept a call as Mission President in Glascow Scotland. He was also a commander in the US Navy and received a citation from Admiral Nimitz.

http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showrelease/0,...1-19896,00.html

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by annelizayoung+Jul 31 2004, 02:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (annelizayoung @ Jul 31 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jul 31 2004, 03:28 PM

They can do anything they want, however tradition is very strong. The Brethren operate in a collegial manner (Characterized by or having authority or responsibility shared equally by each of a group of colleagues.), so they work diligently toward consensus.

The tradition is that when the President dies, the counselors drop back in the the group of apostles and then the most senior member is traditionally chosen.

As I recall, when asked how he got the position, Gordon B. Hinckley (or maybe it was someone else) said that he was called as an apostle and then he didn't die longer than everyone else ahead of him.

Snow

Very interesting (and nice dancing shoes B) ).

Who is the most senior member of the group of the apostles?

AEY

restornu ,

Please do not make multiple accounts or you will be put on mod status.....

Thanks for helping out.

Laureltree

[shanstress70]

Pretty sly, Ann... uh, I mean restornu.

Why is it so difficult to ask questions that are on your mind without getting a new name? I've never understood the point of acting like you're someone else. It's quite anonymous here.

Well, maybe not for me, but for most!