LDS Baptisms

[Athanasias]

Do LDS believe in baptismal regeneration? Just curious? Thanks and God bless you!

[Misshalfway]

I have only heard the term once and have no idea what it means.....

[Athanasias]

I have only heard the term once and have no idea what it means.....

It means that through the sacrament of baptism itself God regenerates your soul and makes it new and sanctified.

[Islander]

It means that through the sacrament of baptism itself God regenerates your soul and makes it new and sanctified.

LDS theology points to baptism as a critical ordinance and part of what is required for salvation and entrance in the kingdom of God. We see it as the scriptures describes it:

-we do so in faith for repentance and the remission of our sins and as a pre-requisite to receiving the Holy Ghost. That as we are raised out of the water, our sins washed away we are renewed and born in Christ.

This is one of my favorite quotes about baptism in the Book of Mormon:

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel."Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter."

2 Ne 31:13, 17. The Book of Mormon

I hope this clarifies. If you go the LDS site and take a look here it will give you some references and quotes

Word Search: Baptism

Edited July 12, 2008 by Islander

[Athanasias]

LDS theology points to baptism as a critical ordinance and part of what is required for salvation and entrance in the kingdom of God. We see it as the scriptures describes it:

-we do so in faith for repentance and the remission of our sins and as a pre-requisite to receiving the Holy Ghost. That as we are raised out of the water, our sins washed away we are renewed and born in Christ.

This is one of my favorite quotes about baptism in the Book of Mormon:

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel."Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter."

2 Ne 31:13, 17. The Book of Mormon

I hope this clarifies. If you go the LDS site and take a look here it will give you some references and quotes

Word Search: Baptism

Thanks that was pretty helpful. But I am a little confused. You say that baptism is given for the remission of sins as a pre-requeset for receiving the Holy Spirit. I am a little confused. If you do not receive the Holy Spirit at baptism then how are your sins washed away? Or maybe I am misunderstanding. However what you described in the second part sounds like baptismal regeneration t me. Am I right?

[rameumptom]

I think the key is that there are two parts to our baptism: water and fire/Spirit. A baptism solely by water is only a half a baptism. The covenant we make through entering into the water, and God then sanctifies us through the Holy Spirit.

We are sanctified and regenerated through the Spirit, forgiven through faith and repentance, exalted through obedience to the end.

[PapilioMemnon]

I'd just like to say that we believe that baptism by immersion by one who has authority is the gate that a person enters to make a covenant with God after having faith, and repenting, and then, qualifying to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hand by one who has authority.

By fulfilling the required ordinances, then the same is reconciled to God by the Atonement of Jesus Christ that cleans us from our sins, and makes it possible to receive eternal life. "In order for us to be saved, one must rescue us," and that person was Jesus Christ. He satisfied the demands of justice in our places, and then, in His mercy, we receive forgiveness if we repent and continue in Him until the end.

In order for the Atonement to have power over the person, the same must have faith, repent, and be baptized by immersion for the remission of sins and receive the Holy Ghost by one who has authority to perform the ordinances of God.

We believe baptism is an ordinance that is required for salvation as the Lord taught us by giving us His own example, by going to the proper authority at the time who held the priesthood, John the Baptist, and being baptized of Him, then receiving the Holy Ghost.

Another reason we believe that baptism is required is because that was preached: "Repent and be baptized..."

Mark 1: 4

4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Acts 2: 38

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the gHoly Ghost.

But, baptism is an ordinance that by itself cannot save us; the Atonement of Christ is the means that cleans us from sin, and through obedience to the commandments He gave us, we can achieve salvation.

Link (Click on Additional Info as well after opening the link): LDS.org - Topic Definition - Atonement of Jesus Christ

"Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5–10; Helaman 14:15–17). Through the Savior's gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.

Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we "apply the atoning blood of Christ" (Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "

* Talk by Elder Bruce R. McConkie - What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace? - Link: Audio Formats

I hope this helps!

Edited July 13, 2008 by PapilioMemnon
To add a link

[Misshalfway]

It means that through the sacrament of baptism itself God regenerates your soul and makes it new and sanctified.

AHHH yes! New and sanctified. Now I know where you are headed! :)

Sounds like you have gotten some great explanations so I won't belabor the points made. I would just like to say that it is absolutely the HG that does the sanctifying. We call that the baptism of fire. At the time of baptism, a person also receives a second ordinance. They are baptized by water and then thru the laying on of hands given the gift of the HG. From that time forward, they have the companionship of the Holy Spirit thru out their lives.

We also believe that the taking of the sacrament on Sunday renews the commitments we made at baptism to always remember the Savior and keep His commandments and that the sanctification is renewed as well. We believe that maintaining our sanctification is just as important as receiving of it in the first place.

[Athanasias]

I'd just like to say that we believe that baptism by immersion by one who has authority is the gate that a person enters to make a covenant with God after having faith, and repenting, and then, qualifying to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hand by one who has authority.

By fulfilling the required ordinances, then the same is reconciled to God by the Atonement of Jesus Christ that cleans us from our sins, and makes it possible to receive eternal life. "In order for us to be saved, one must rescue us," and that person was Jesus Christ. He satisfied the demands of justice in our places, and then, in His mercy, we receive forgiveness if we repent and continue in Him until the end.

In order for the Atonement to have power over the person, the same must have faith, repent, and be baptized by immersion for the remission of sins and receive the Holy Ghost by one who has authority to perform the ordinances of God.

We believe baptism is an ordinance that is required for salvation as the Lord taught us by giving us His own example, by going to the proper authority at the time who held the priesthood, John the Baptist, and being baptized of Him, then receiving the Holy Ghost.

Another reason we believe that baptism is required is because that was preached: "Repent and be baptized..."

Mark 1: 4

4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Acts 2: 38

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the gHoly Ghost.

But, baptism is an ordinance that by itself cannot save us; the Atonement of Christ is the means that cleans us from sin, and through obedience to the commandments He gave us, we can achieve salvation.

Link (Click on Additional Info as well after opening the link): LDS.org - Topic Definition - Atonement of Jesus Christ

"Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5–10; Helaman 14:15–17). Through the Savior's gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.

Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we "apply the atoning blood of Christ" (Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "

* Talk by Elder Bruce R. McConkie - What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace? - Link: Audio Formats

I hope this helps!

Thanks for your explanation. Judging by what you said I assume that baptismal regeneration is not a teaching of LDS.

God bless you always!

[KosherXMorg]

I don't know why it has been so hard for them to respond to your question... Yes, Mormons believe in baptismal regeneration as you defined it. Geeeesh people!

[Islander]

I don't know why it has been so hard for them to respond to your question... Yes, Mormons believe in baptismal regeneration as you defined it. Geeeesh people!

hehehehehe...LOL...really loud. No offense, but that was precisely my problem when I was looking for a church.

EVERY one had staked out a "theological" position instead of a "logical" one and they wanted me to accepted it without questioning it. Yes, the Gospel requires some study to grasp time lines, context issues and the political environment that at times shapes those issues. But the basic doctrine: Who God is, who Jesus is, why He came, what he did and why and died; that He resurrected and what that brought about and what we need to do to follow him needs no interpretation or theological training!! It is all there in black and white.

The word "regeneration" appears twice in the NT and one of them related to the resurrection. I think we could describe baptism using any other adjective for the MANY other things it does and means beyond regeneration. This is one of those "theological" hangups rather than explicit and transparent doctrine.

Just my thoughts

Edited July 15, 2008 by Islander

[Vort]

Do LDS believe in baptismal regeneration? Just curious? Thanks and God bless you!

Let me take a shot at this. One problem many LDS people have in answering such questions is that many non-LDS Christians have specific and unique definitions of terms, just as Latter-day Saints sometimes do. We prefer to answer such questions using our own vocabulary, but then you have to understand us on our terms. When the same word carries slightly different meanings, confusion often results.

For example, many Christians claim to believe that God "created" the world. Latter-day Saints believe that God created the world, of course. But if you ask a non-LDS Christian what it means that God "created" the world, he will likely tell you that it means that God caused the world to come into existence from absolute nothingness. In an LDS context, this is pure nonsense. The elements themselves are eternal, we are taught, and God's creation of all things is much more accurately described as an "organization" of preexisting material than as "bringing into existence" from nothingness. So saying that God "created" the universe has a subtlely but, in ways, importantly different meaning to Latter-day Saints than to non-LDS Christians.

Another example: most Christians profess to believe that men and women are saved by grace. Of course, Latter-day Saints believe precisely this. But the LDS understanding of salvation by grace includes the (to us) obvious truth that grace comes for the asking, and asking involves more than mere lip service. We must ask in faith. God expects, indeed requires, that we exercise faith and strive for him; in doing so, we receive his grace. Without the striving and effort, no grace is forthcoming, any more than a mine will yield gold by you sitting there wishing that gold nuggets will come flying out. Yet this is not the idea of grace held by many non-LDS Christians (though I would add that many non-LDS Christians do indeed hold this same concept of grace, or something close to it). For many non-LDS Christians, grace is something you receive merely by saying "Save me, Jesus my Redeemer!" or some such thing. It's the "Christian" equivalent of the Muslim shahada.

So then, do Latter-day Saints believe in baptismal regeneration? The simple answer is: Yes, of course. Duh. (Though the well-mannered Mormon will not utter that last part out loud. :)) The more complicated answer is: Yes, we do, but our understanding of regeneration may not be the same as yours. If you wish to understand LDS doctrine, you must understand what we mean by regeneration and then find if that coincides with your own definition.

[Islander]

Let me take a shot at this. One problem many LDS people have in answering such questions is that many non-LDS Christians have specific and unique definitions of terms, just as Latter-day Saints sometimes do. We prefer to answer such questions using our own vocabulary, but then you have to understand us on our terms. When the same word carries slightly different meanings, confusion often results.

For example, many Christians claim to believe that God "created" the world. Latter-day Saints believe that God created the world, of course. But if you ask a non-LDS Christian what it means that God "created" the world, he will likely tell you that it means that God caused the world to come into existence from absolute nothingness. In an LDS context, this is pure nonsense. The elements themselves are eternal, we are taught, and God's creation of all things is much more accurately described as an "organization" of preexisting material than as "bringing into existence" from nothingness. So saying that God "created" the universe has a subtlely but, in ways, importantly different meaning to Latter-day Saints than to non-LDS Christians.

Another example: most Christians profess to believe that men and women are saved by grace. Of course, Latter-day Saints believe precisely this. But the LDS understanding of salvation by grace includes the (to us) obvious truth that grace comes for the asking, and asking involves more than mere lip service. We must ask in faith. God expects, indeed requires, that we exercise faith and strive for him; in doing so, we receive his grace. Without the striving and effort, no grace is forthcoming, any more than a mine will yield gold by you sitting there wishing that gold nuggets will come flying out. Yet this is not the idea of grace held by many non-LDS Christians (though I would add that many non-LDS Christians do indeed hold this same concept of grace, or something close to it). For many non-LDS Christians, grace is something you receive merely by saying "Save me, Jesus my Redeemer!" or some such thing. It's the "Christian" equivalent of the Muslim shahada.

So then, do Latter-day Saints believe in baptismal regeneration? The simple answer is: Yes, of course. Duh. (Though the well-mannered Mormon will not utter that last part out loud. :)) The more complicated answer is: Yes, we do, but our understanding of regeneration may not be the same as yours. If you wish to understand LDS doctrine, you must understand what we mean by regeneration and then find if that coincides with your own definition.

You have to love this guy!!! Elegance and elloquence.

I suggested earlier to the original post that asked the question to spend some time reading on lds.org on baptism.

[rameumptom]

We believe in baptismal regeneration, but are just establishing it as clearly as we can: baptism includes both of water and the Spirit, or no regeneration occurs.

Mosiah 5:1-5 shows a regeneration occurring. Also, in connection with obtaining the priesthoods is a regeneration through the Holy Spirit (D&C 84:33-40).

[Athanasias]

We believe in baptismal regeneration, but are just establishing it as clearly as we can: baptism includes both of water and the Spirit, or no regeneration occurs.

Mosiah 5:1-5 shows a regeneration occurring. Also, in connection with obtaining the priesthoods is a regeneration through the Holy Spirit (D&C 84:33-40).

I can understand I think. We Catholics beleive that when we are baptized with water the Holy Spirit acts through that water to regenerate us. Hence to us the very sacrament of sacramental water baptism itself regenerates. Is this also your understanding?

[rameumptom]

It is similar. John the baptist baptized with water, but proclaimed that Christ would come to baptize also with the Holy Spirit and with fire. A baptism solely of water, without the Spirit, is just having a bath.

We show forth our faith and desire to follow Christ by entering into the waters of baptism. He regenerates us through the power of the Holy Spirit. This regeneration is described well in the book of Mormon in Alma 18, and Mosiah 5:1-5, where the people are filled to the point that "they no longer desired to do evil, but to do good continually."

[Athanasias]

It is similar. John the baptist baptized with water, but proclaimed that Christ would come to baptize also with the Holy Spirit and with fire. A baptism solely of water, without the Spirit, is just having a bath.

We show forth our faith and desire to follow Christ by entering into the waters of baptism. He regenerates us through the power of the Holy Spirit. This regeneration is described well in the book of Mormon in Alma 18, and Mosiah 5:1-5, where the people are filled to the point that "they no longer desired to do evil, but to do good continually."

Ok so the we both believe that the Holy spirit is the one who regenerates. Cool! Our differences would be that we Catholics beleive that the Holy Spirit is present in sacramental water baptism(Predicted formally by the prophet Ezekiel (Ezekeil 36:25-27-and fulfilled in Acts 2:38-39)

and you guys do not. Is this correct?

[rameumptom]

We believe as stated in Acts that the gift of the Holy Spirit is a separate ordinance. Paul laid his hands on the 12 men from Ephesus and then they received the gift of the Holy Ghost. And Peter went into Asia, following Phillip who was baptizing, so that the gift of the Holy Ghost could be given by the laying on of hands.

We note that there is a distinction between a person experiencing the Holy Ghost (as did Cornelius), and receiving the gift thereof. A person can experience the Holy Spirit in the waters of baptism, or any other time (praying, meditating, scripture study, etc). But we also believe that the Holy Ghost can be a "constant companion" for those who receive the Gift. It is not an overnight experience, and then we have it automatically with us constantly. It is a Gift that we must work to retain and continually experience. Most LDS do not have the constant companionship, but seek to obtain it line upon line.

The Holy Ghost is considered by us to be the third member of the Godhead. So, to have His constant companionship is to have God indwell with us. In this comes a true regeneration, as mentioned in the scriptures I gave before.

[Athanasias]

We believe as stated in Acts that the gift of the Holy Spirit is a separate ordinance. Paul laid his hands on the 12 men from Ephesus and then they received the gift of the Holy Ghost. And Peter went into Asia, following Phillip who was baptizing, so that the gift of the Holy Ghost could be given by the laying on of hands.

We note that there is a distinction between a person experiencing the Holy Ghost (as did Cornelius), and receiving the gift thereof. A person can experience the Holy Spirit in the waters of baptism, or any other time (praying, meditating, scripture study, etc). But we also believe that the Holy Ghost can be a "constant companion" for those who receive the Gift. It is not an overnight experience, and then we have it automatically with us constantly. It is a Gift that we must work to retain and continually experience. Most LDS do not have the constant companionship, but seek to obtain it line upon line.

The Holy Ghost is considered by us to be the third member of the Godhead. So, to have His constant companionship is to have God indwell with us. In this comes a true regeneration, as mentioned in the scriptures I gave before.

OK so the difference between us then is that we Catholics view the gift of the Holy Ghost the third person of the Trinity as something free that we do not work for but are given at the Sacrament of water baptism which to us confers the gift of the Holy Spirit to us(Ezekiel 36:25-27 Acts 2:38-39) and regenerates us in water baptism(Titus 3:5-7). And you guys do not.

[gomspal]

Is that really the Catholic view? I guess I was absent when they taught that in cathecism when I was a Catholic. What is the purpose of confirmation in Catholic then, which occurs usually when a child turns 8 years old (at least in the Philippines)? I am not being sarcastic or anything, I am just asking this question for understanding. Thank you.

[rameumptom]

We also consider the Holy Ghost to be a free gift. However, the Spirit does not remain in impure tabernacles, and will leave. We also believe that the gift of the Holy Ghost is a free gift, given upon the laying on of hands by the priesthood. After baptism or any ordinance, just as in the Catholic Church, one must remain pure to retain the gift given.

[Athanasias]

Is that really the Catholic view? I guess I was absent when they taught that in cathecism when I was a Catholic. What is the purpose of confirmation in Catholic then, which occurs usually when a child turns 8 years old (at least in the Philippines)? I am not being sarcastic or anything, I am just asking this question for understanding. Thank you.

Yes actually this is what the Catholic church teaches and it is also what i was taught when I was in school by the same catechism. Baptism itself gives us initial salvation(1 Peter 3:21), Regenerates our souls(Titus 3:5-7) and washes away our sins(Acts 22:16) and gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit(Ez 36:25-27, Acts 2:38-29). Confirmation is yet another more profound conferring of the Holy Spirit(by the laying on of hands and anointing with oil and prayer) to strengthen you in your faith and fortify you in your baptism. It completes what began in baptism. We beleive confirmation is like Pentecost for the adult believer. Yet we also teach that one initially receives the Holy Spirit in baptism. I hope that helps! thanks for clarifying to me your guys position. God bless you!