When you prayed to receive a witness

[mike_uk]

Is it possible, Mike, that God is coming after you? Is it possible he is using other people in your life to find you and communicate with you? Or maybe he is waiting for you....if indeed you are determined to be lost. He does let us choose... and if we move away from the light he lets us feel the darkness. And he doesn't give blessings, even when we want them and demand them and are hurt because they don't come, before we obey first.

"How oft I would have gathered you..........but you would not."

"Come unto me all ye that are heavy laden...."

"Come follow me, The Savior said."

"Seek me and ye shall find me"

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock."

Come unto Christ, Mike. Come unto Christ.

MissH

Quite possibly yes.

I know it will be hard to believe but I do want to believe and I do want to feel christ in my life. I do want to have a loving relationship where I can approach him and feel his love. I want to know him. I just feel I cannot now. Im so far down the road to atheism I am REALLY struggling to believe they are even out there. No amount of pleading and begging to feel his presence resulted in a damned thing. Ive said that often becasue its the truth. If he wants to make himself known in prayers or the scriptures then I just have to accept that if he is out there, he aint interested in me.

I have to be honest with you all and I know you guys love the church and the faith you have but I wont get anything from it, its not for me even if it was true its standards are WAY above my abilities and its history too questionable now. None of it would ever feel right now I have gained this knowledge. I would always be questioning everything said and would land in trouble or cause offense etc.

You know the more I consider my situation the more Im lead to writing that letter and requesting my name to be removed becasue then maybe I could find christ elsewhere. Christ without the complexities. Surely thats a better path than remaining 90% and counting atheist?

[mike_uk]

I do believe that many times God answers us in ways we do not expect. Many times he works through other people. It may not seem so miraculous, but it is, as it allows us to serve God in performing his miracles.

Often I find we reject God because he does not want to respond to us in the way we wish. If Joseph Smith could have a First Vision, then why not me....?

Yes that could definately be true. Still I need an answer from him. I want to experience that feeling so many others have. It may not changemy mind about my opinions of JS but would help to know he's out there, thats for sure.

[funkymonkey]

This thread is so interesting. There is so much honesty in here, so many people just pouring their hearts out. Thank you all for being so honest. I have really learned a lot from this thread.

Finding peace is so important...constant struggling and doubt in God and in ourselves is really not going to result in peace.

I think deep deep down, know that God exists, which is why you are struggling but still searching for answers right now...in the past, the idea of God has given you peace in your life. You've been bombarded by so much information that your faith has turned into a need to appeal to the intellect...leaving you confused and kinda cheated.

(been there! Everything you've said...I've had the same thoughts and ideas!)

But please remember...God communicates through the heart, not the mind.

Mike, can I challenge you to something for the next two weeks...?

Put aside any association with any religion and all the intellectual mumbo jumbo, and history of churches, and offensive people, etc).

Wipe your mental slate clean... focus only on your own individual relationship with Jesus Christ....no religion, no literature, no confusion... just you and Christ. Don't read anything...just you and Christ.

For 10 minutes in the morning and evening, go somewhere where you can be completely alone, completely quiet, away from all distractions...

Close your eyes and take a couple deep breaths to relax and clear your mind, in your mind think that you are in a vast peaceful space standing or walking with Jesus Christ. Then pray, and ask to remember Him, don't ask Him to "prove" that he is there, but rather ask him to help you remember.

...for two weeks.

I really still think that a priesthood blessing could be of benefit too, what's the harm right?

[Misshalfway]

Maybe there isn't a God. And maybe Christ is just a nice idea and all these promises of healing are just bunk! OR maybe God just picks favorites.... and maybe God is just sexist..... and maybe he just doesn't give a flying crap about me and maybe he just isn't there and this whole mormon thing is just a big cultural joke that I fell for and got sucked into!

These are some of my thoughts of the past year. And during some of my quiet moments...and sometimes painful moments...those feelings still bubble up and the doubts come back into my mind and disturb my peace and sometimes make me very angry. I don't understand everything... and I don't know why you have had a different experience that those around you. And I am so very sorry about that.

Whatever you decide Mike, I hope you find peace and rest to your mind and emotions. I hope you find a place where your questions have answers and where your inner yearnings are heard.

Peace is found in truth. If there is no God, you will find peace in that decision.

Perhaps you just need to do that. Move completely away from all the ideas that cause such disturbance inside of you and get yourself to a place of peace where you can hear the voice within you. Well, that is what I had to do. It is what I felt led to do. So...i just got away from the whole mormon thing and waited to see what truth, if any, would come back to me or to see if I would be led to a completely new path.

Maybe you do need to write that letter.....maybe you do need to go all the way to the edge and evaluate how you feel inside of such a decision. If you do go this route, make sure you do it from a place of peace rather than a "stick it to the man" position.

I don't understand my experience yet. But slowly, the meaning of all the darkness is coming to me. And maybe in the end, there really isn't a God and my conversation with you and the rest is a complete and total waste...... But I don't believe that, Mike. He is out there! And if he knows me and gives a crap about me, then he knows you too. He absolutely is there! I found his voice and I see his influence throughout the course of my life. But He didn't spoil me with answers. And he didn't give me answers when it wasn't right for me. But he did give me answers.....even when I was the angriest!

I hope you will feel it too. And if you don't or never do.....I hope you find a space where you are at peace.

PS. Let me know if you do find any belief system or life experience that isn't complex.

[lilered]

MissH

--------You know the more I consider my situation the more Im lead to writing that letter and requesting my name to be removed becasue then maybe I could find christ elsewhere. Christ without the complexities. Surely thats a better path than remaining 90% and counting atheist?

mike_uk - Help me to understand your logic. Is it the basic church doctorine you are having trouble with, feeling the spirit, Joseph Smith, or exactly what? Your statement above gives me cause for concern that your struggle is more with basic Christianity and the church is only a part of your concerns.

[HiJolly]

But please remember...God communicates through the heart, not the mind.

Great post, FM, but just a nit -- Sometimes, God does communicate to the mind. It's rare, but its happened to me, so I just thought I'd mention it....

HiJolly

[mike_uk]

mike_uk - Help me to understand your logic. Is it the basic church doctorine you are having trouble with, feeling the spirit, Joseph Smith, or exactly what? Your statement above gives me cause for concern that your struggle is more with basic Christianity and the church is only a part of your concerns.

I think to be honest I have told my story often. You guys know so much more about my problems than most of my family/bishop friends do from past posts but I will explain again briefly.

I never felt the spirit or anything remotely unexplainable but just accepted that the silly feelings like the hairs on the back of my neck standing up was maybe the spirit talking to me. Thats about it for spiritual experiences and its pathetic when I hear about others. Still I never doubted for many years, no reason to. I avoided all "anti" literature and stuff i did come across I shelved as being nonsese. Then I became fascinated by church history and stuck to church books and that lead me to further the investigations and gradually I learnt more and more about the early church until I built up a huge collection of "dirt". Then the more research I did the more of an effect it had on me. Temples and Masons, Kinderhook Plates, Book of Abraham which contains much of our doctrine, BoM problems, Kirtland Bank fiasco, Polygamy, double standards, racism, sexism, blood attonement, Mark Hoffman incident, church whitewashing etc. I studied myself away and concluded JS was a fraud and I got sucked in. I wont elaborate on these things becasue its all out there.

So it went from believing but struggling to feel the spirit through my whole membership to a total disbelief in JS as being a prophet. So now I cannot believe in our doctrine becasue of the information I have and pondered. I will add that I kept this information to myself for a long time whilst still active and it has absolutely torn me to pieces physically. I'm a shadowof my former self

Although I generally accepted the bible to be true some of the events like the Arc and flood etc I thought to be a myth but I have maintined until now atleast a beleif in God and Jesus since i can remember. It's actually very common for people to go through a total belief in something to see it all come crashing down to become atheist. However Im not there just yet.

Does this help?

[mike_uk]

This thread is so interesting. There is so much honesty in here, so many people just pouring their hearts out. Thank you all for being so honest. I have really learned a lot from this thread.

Finding peace is so important...constant struggling and doubt in God and in ourselves is really not going to result in peace.

I think deep deep down, know that God exists, which is why you are struggling but still searching for answers right now...in the past, the idea of God has given you peace in your life. You've been bombarded by so much information that your faith has turned into a need to appeal to the intellect...leaving you confused and kinda cheated.

(been there! Everything you've said...I've had the same thoughts and ideas!)

But please remember...God communicates through the heart, not the mind.

Mike, can I challenge you to something for the next two weeks...?

Put aside any association with any religion and all the intellectual mumbo jumbo, and history of churches, and offensive people, etc).

Wipe your mental slate clean... focus only on your own individual relationship with Jesus Christ....no religion, no literature, no confusion... just you and Christ. Don't read anything...just you and Christ.

For 10 minutes in the morning and evening, go somewhere where you can be completely alone, completely quiet, away from all distractions...

Close your eyes and take a couple deep breaths to relax and clear your mind, in your mind think that you are in a vast peaceful space standing or walking with Jesus Christ. Then pray, and ask to remember Him, don't ask Him to "prove" that he is there, but rather ask him to help you remember.

...for two weeks.

I really still think that a priesthood blessing could be of benefit too, what's the harm right?

Funky

Wow, funky are you sure you arent my wife posting anonmously? You hit the nail right on the head.

Also I will seriously consider your challenge. I really will. I guess then that will prove to myslelf If I really do want to find Jesus again. Dont get me wrong but my whole body tingled when I read this (natural occurence!!!).

Thank you Funky, you are really supportive even though my remarks can be offensive about stuff.

[funkymonkey]

Thanks Mike. :)

That wasn't me, that was the spirit. God seriously wants a relationship with you.

Edited August 13, 2008 by funkymonkey

[mike_uk]

Thanks Mike. :)

That wasn't me, that was the spirit. God seriously wants a relationship with you.

At this very moment in time I do doubt that but I started last night. I spoke to God and had to dig deep to start. I pleaded for him to help me remember him and invited christ to pull me up.

[Hemidakota]

Im not looking to flame or interfere with your experiences but I am interested to learn what you felt when you took Moroni's challenge to read and pray about the Book of Mormon, how it came to you and what you experienced etc?

If you wouldnt mind sharing that we me It would be very much appreciated.

To look across the veil requires a great change to ones inner vessel [being born again]. When that happens, you begin to see things at times cannot be written. It starts with hope and faith, then it leads to knowledge on what was, what is , and what shall be.

[funkymonkey]

Very cool, Mike. :) Thanks for the update! One night down...13 more to go.

[candyprpl]

Mike,

I'm understanding that you don't believe Joseph Smith to have been a prophet and therefore don't believe in the restored gospel -- is that correct? Do you believe in Christ's atonement and the gospel taught in the Bible? I guess what I'm asking, is what do you have a testimony of -- even a seed of a testimony.

[mike_uk]

Mike,

I'm understanding that you don't believe Joseph Smith to have been a prophet and therefore don't believe in the restored gospel -- is that correct? Do you believe in Christ's atonement and the gospel taught in the Bible? I guess what I'm asking, is what do you have a testimony of -- even a seed of a testimony.

Candy

That is correct. I No longer believe him to be a prophet and that he restored the gospel. Being what I would consider 90% atheist now makes the atonement hard to accept now. Testimony? Hmmmm, nothing. It's a blunt answer I know but thats all I can say now.

[candyprpl]

Mike,

Thanks for the blunt answer. I know some people will be offended. I really hate people who beat around the bush. I always try to say what I'm thinking and I always apprciate people telling me when I'm wrong. I really am sorry that you don't have a testimony of anything. It's a lonely world out there without something to believe in. That lonely feeling led me to want to leave this world. I still don't understand why that suicide attempt didn't work. My sisters call it a miracle. I didn't seem to care for what this world had to offer (as I saw it then) and I certainly didn't care what was to come once I was gone (since I didn't believe there was anything to come). I fear for you if this is where you are headed. I really can empathize maybe even sympathize with where you're at. I hope you find something to believe in -- I really do.

Sincerely,

Candace:)