Gospel Culture

[pretty_in_pink]

What do you think of gospel culture? What should we do about it?

*In my opinion, I believe that gospel culture should be practice. Old traditions should be taken away and replace with the reality of what we see and choose the right actions. We are in this new generation and we should live the way the Lord wants us to live our lives. Let's be aware of our old traditions. *

Edited August 27, 2008 by pretty_in_pink

[HiJolly]

What do you think of gospel culture? What should we do about it?

*In my opinion, I believe that gospel culture should be practice. Old traditions should be taken away and replace with the reality of what we see and choose the right actions. We are in this new generation and we should live the way the Lord wants us to live our lives. Let's be aware of our old traditions. *

I think I agree with the quote, and am curious as to where it comes from.

The Church cannot avoid a 'culture' -- it is too much a part of people. Most of us grow up and cannot even really evaluate our own culture, unless they travel abroad or otherwise shake themselves out of complacency and habitual routine, even in thinking and feeling. Pretty tough thing to do.

And not all traditions are bad.

HiJolly

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Jolly is absolutely right, you can't break out of the mold of tradition and culture until you've experienced one radically different. And some traditions are good traditions.

However, I think there's a lot that is culturally accepted as "doctrine" that is entirely nonsense. This is one of the reasons that our church leaders constantly emphasize the basics. We have to continually remember that what we think we know may not be true at all - so practice earnest prayer and scripture study so the important things always stay fresh in our minds.

[Moksha]

The term gospel culture is still hard for me to grasp but if it involves putting the high ideals of Jesus' teachings into practice, then I am all for it.

Although I am not certain if it was ever a tangential part of Gospel culture, I miss going out to the KFC restaurant on North Temple for Sunday dinner. Good memories from yesteryear.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

To me "Gospel culture" means things that we find acceptable or unacceptable that have no basis in doctrine or revelation. I have heard it said that it is official church policy any man holding a priesthood calling must always be clean shaven - while policy for SOME callings, it is not policy for all. But being clean shaven has become part of our culture and wearing a beard is no longer acceptable, especially for someone in authority.

Wearing hats is another example. 50 years ago a man would have been half naked without a hat, but today they are generally never worn. It has even become policy in our missions to not wear hats.

Gospel culture can also be seen in the way we pray. It's even taught in our primary lessons that we should pray in a specific format: greeting, gratitude, desires, closing. While this is all well and good, I doubt Joseph Smith ever said such a prayer. And how many times do you hear the opening "Dear Heavenly Father". It's almost mandatory. I've heard prayers started "Good morning, Father" and I totally endorse being personal with Him.

Another bit of Mormon culture is the "missionary fairwell" sacrament meeting. This has even been spoken agianst by general authorities yet it still happens. It's tradition to have a departing missionary and his/her family speak in sacrament, and heaven forbid even a prophet should try to change that! (notice the sarcasm? )

[MichaelPAGuy]

Is it true that the LDS church does not like/prefer beards? I say as long as they are kep trimmed. My former bishop shortly after I left the church had a beard. He always has.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

As I said, it's part of culture. As far as I'm aware personally, it is only policy for missionaries to be clean shaven. I have also heard that it's written in a manual somewhere that bishops are supposed to be clean shaven, but I've never found any such manual. And there have been bishops and stake presidents, and even modern prophets, with beards.

A search on LDS.org turns up one article from 1971 from a speach by Dallin H Oaks when he first became president of BYU. This was regarding grooming standards for BYU and shaving and short hair were encouraged, not because beards and long hair are inherently wrong, but because they identified people with the hippie counter culture of the time. However this was specifically for BYU students about BYU rules.

I suspect in other countries and cultures, beards are more common or more accepted. Generally in the U.S., and especially out west, they are sufficiently uncommon to make you wonder if someone made a rule about them.

[Moksha]

To me "Gospel culture" means things that we find acceptable or unacceptable that have no basis in doctrine or revelation. I have heard it said that it is official church policy any man holding a priesthood calling must always be clean shaven - while policy for SOME callings, it is not policy for all. But being clean shaven has become part of our culture and wearing a beard is no longer acceptable, especially for someone in authority.

Ah, you mean like white shirts as a general policy just because the IBM corporation does it that way. Just think of those apostates at Apple that don't even wear a tie and some even have beards. When you allow such individuality to flourish are you not sowing the seeds of creativity and thinking, which leads to all sorts of things.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Ah, you mean like white shirts as a general policy just because the IBM corporation does it that way. Just think of those apostates at Apple that don't even wear a tie and some even have beards. When you allow such individuality to flourish are you not sowing the seeds of creativity and thinking, which leads to all sorts of things.

You mean like visions and dreams and rich and fulfilling lives? Absolutely!

A little over a month ago I wore a kimono to church (samurai outfit ). My bishop joked that he was ready to check my sword at the door - but I left it in the car. That kind of individuality, I think, comes directly from our spirits - who we were before we came here and it's a huge part of who we are now. Prophets say that the strongest spirits were saved for the Latter Days, and I think that also means we have strong personalities too :)

[pretty_in_pink]

Well, we have different opinions. And we're all entitled to our own opinions. It's a message came from President Dallin Oaks. In our country we have so much cultures and traditions and one of Pres. Dallin Oaks message to us is about this topic "Gospel Culture". I myself believe that some of our cultures is not helping us to progress. I can say that its true we have to change good to better.

[Moksha]

You mean like visions and dreams and rich and fulfilling lives? Absolutely!

A little over a month ago I wore a kimono to church (samurai outfit ). My bishop joked that he was ready to check my sword at the door - but I left it in the car. That kind of individuality, I think, comes directly from our spirits - who we were before we came here and it's a huge part of who we are now. Prophets say that the strongest spirits were saved for the Latter Days, and I think that also means we have strong personalities too :)

I love this! You undoubtedly have a strong spirit.

[abqfriend]

I am a Catholic here. I think some traditions are helpful. Traditions from man alone can get in the way of change and truth. Some traditions are good. Some of the songs/hymns in my church are over 1000 years old-they are beautiful. Sometimes our hymns/songs get stuck in the 1800's rather than today-perhaps there should be room for both. I like some modern Christian hymns/music-but I do not like others. In my church, some of the services have different kinds of music than others-so that can be helpful too.

The Gospel-or "Good News" culture should be one of love and joy.

-Carol

[HiJolly]

The Gospel-or "Good News" culture should be one of love and joy.

-Carol

AMEN. I love some of the poetry of the mystics of middle-age Catholicsm, especially when set to music. Mack Wilberg, the director of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir The Official Site of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, has done many of these. He also wrote his own Requiem two years ago (the CD was just released a few months ago) and had a spiritual experience while composing it.

HiJolly

[richlittell]

"The gospel of Jesus Christ challenges us to change. "Repent" is its most frequent message, and repenting means giving up all of our practices—personal, family, ethnic, and national—that are contrary to the commandments of God. The purpose of the gospel is to transform common creatures into celestial citizens, and that requires change."

Dallin H. Oaks Repentance and Change

Being an American LDS living in Taiwan, I think culture is the single greatest obstacle to gospel progression. Culture has such a strong influence over people, an influence that most are not even aware of, and it influences even those who try to take a sincere and objective view of the gospel.

I do think that those who are truly trying to follow the gospel will/should certainly move towards a common culture.

Traditions are a little different. In America, we have the tradition of Christmas, which I think, even with Santa Claus, which is the spirit of giving, is itself within the spirit of Christ. In Asia, families have the tradition of honoring their dead ancestors, a tradition I hope is never lost even among those who convert. One can still participate in a ceremony or ritual honoring the deceased as long as they know in their hearts, that it is showing respect only and they don't pray to their ancestors or any other gods or participate in the movements of such rituals. It is really touching how much reverence is given to one's ancestors over here--compare that to the "American" way; very different.

[LolaBella]

I think LDS culture has good and bad points, but sometimes church 'culture' can overtake the teachings. This is one of the reasons I am not active at the moment. When you are stopped from having callings/taking part in the church just because you don't conform to church culture, is in my eyes very sad and dangerous. It then becomes a church of men and not of God. This is proved by going to different stakes and different wards where there so many differences sometimes I wonder if its the same church atall!

[checkerboy]

Getting back to the whole facial hair thing, I once had an EQ Pres. that had a full beard. He commented that he told the Stake President that the only time he was gonna shave it off was if they added it as a requirement to be clean shaven to obtain a temple recommend.

I have heard of Stake Presidents challenging their members to not have facial hair which to me is hilarious. Something as trivial as facial hair shouldn't be a sign of whether or not you are faithful. That is just our lovely LDS "culture" rearing its ugly head. I think some people think I have a beard cause I wanna be rebelious. Pahlease. I simply look fabulous with a beard.

[Misshalfway]

Well, we have different opinions. And we're all entitled to our own opinions. It's a message came from President Dallin Oaks. In our country we have so much cultures and traditions and one of Pres. Dallin Oaks message to us is about this topic "Gospel Culture". I myself believe that some of our cultures is not helping us to progress. I can say that its true we have to change good to better.

Would you mind clarifying what you see are cultural norms that are NOT helping us progress???

[BenRaines]

So if I am reading this right there are those who don't go to church because there are human beings presiding in wards and stakes instead of Gods? Is that right? So if someone expresses their personal opinion and is a Bishop or Stake President then this can't be God's church?

Please help me to understand. Because someone says we should follow the leadership of the church and priesthood holders should wear white shirts at church and you disagree then you should leave the church, or not wear facial hair, etc.

My testimony is based on more than that. It is founded on a belief in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father.

Ben Raines

[LolaBella]

checker, I agree with you. I think beards are a bit yuck but its nothing to stop you progressing spiritually is it?

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So if I am reading this right there are those who don't go to church because there are human beings presiding in wards and stakes instead of Gods? Is that right? So if someone expresses their personal opinion and is a Bishop or Stake President then this can't be God's church?

Because someone says we should follow the leadership of the church and priesthood holders should wear white shirts at church and you disagree then you should leave the church, or not wear facial hair, etc.

You're contradicting ureself a little there Ben. Firstly you say people are human and make mistakes, then you say we should follow our leaders anyway. So even if you know something a leader says isn't from God do you believe you should still do it? Because I personally do not. I have left the church because I was sick every Sunday of people chasing me for numbers, paper, and having lessons based on how oh-so-righteous we are as LDS and how wicked the rest of the world are. I class myself as Christian and felf uncomfortable with this sort of thing. I began to feel going to church was actually DAMAGING my testimony. Of course I dont expect people to be perfect but that to me, is taking away the spirit of what true cristianity is.

[BenRaines]

Give me an example of a message from a leader that is not from God that I get when I get direction from my Bishop or my Stake President?

Most of the lessons I attend are on how we can be better christians, how we can avoid sin and how can we love our brothers and sisters. Not sure where the lessons are or which class on how better we are than others. I think they are covered in the Zoramites and the rameumpton and that was not a good thing. Don't recall it being the topic of the lesson that we should be like that but how to avoid being like that.

Hopefully we are all, myself included, looking to improve our understanding of what we should do in this life to better prepare to meet God.

Personally I have never been a number nor chased a number. They are all children of God to me.

Ben Raines

[Moksha]

beards.

A search on LDS.org turns up one article from 1971 from a speach by Dallin H Oaks when he first became president of BYU. This was regarding grooming standards for BYU and shaving and short hair were encouraged, not because beards and long hair are inherently wrong, but because they identified people with the hippie counter culture of the time. However this was specifically for BYU students about BYU rules.

I remember that period in time, when you could identify the male BYU students by the white side walls on their head. They seemed like a walking anachronism from the past back then. Now, longer hair seems anachronistic.

The point was made to those BYU students that they needed to learn conformity to the values of their elder authorities and not seek to be like the world around them.

[Hemidakota]

What do you think of gospel culture? What should we do about it?

*In my opinion, I believe that gospel culture should be practice. Old traditions should be taken away and replace with the reality of what we see and choose the right actions. We are in this new generation and we should live the way the Lord wants us to live our lives. Let's be aware of our old traditions. *

We live by example that is set before us - a living prophet or our mentor, the living Christ.

[Truegrits]

LolaBella:

I was sick every Sunday of people chasing me for numbers, paper, and having lessons based on how oh-so-righteous we are as LDS and how wicked the rest of the world are.

I am not sure what you mean by being chased for numbers, paper? Could you please explain that?

I have never been in a class or heard a lesson on the wickedness of other Churches. If I were to be in a class where someone was denigrating another Faith, I would object to it and/or leave the class.

That being said, a few "bad apples" will never be the cause of my denying my Church, my Faith.

[LolaBella]

For those of you that don't understand my point of view, fine, you obviously have great wards. That is great but please be open minded enough to realise that not everyone shares your view, and some of us have problems with our wards and beliefs, for whatever reason. That is surely not difficult to understand is it?

[richlittell]

For those of you that don't understand my point of view, fine, you obviously have great wards. That is great but please be open minded enough to realise that not everyone shares your view, and some of us have problems with our wards and beliefs, for whatever reason. That is surely not difficult to understand is it?

I don't entirely disagree with you. I know that home teaching numbers and so forth can get old, but the leaders of the church have a job to do, and numbers is just one way of helping lost sheep or making sure sheep don't become lost. It is the work of Christ.

I second what others have said about lessons at church and I've been a member of wards all over the U.S. and the world. I am quite amazed at how much they are the same, although each ward might have a slightly distinct "personality."

I don't think anyone is not being open minded, just expressing our view, as you have expressed yours. We simply have a different testimony.

For me, I joined and remain involved in the church because it is Christ's, not because I like or dislike any leader or members or the administrative approach or the lessons or anything else. My salvation is mine, and not any other of the members of our church.