Question about the Holy Ghost

[palmoni]

So I was sitting here the other day, condemplating inteligences and spirit bodies and such when something poped into my head. I as a physical person cannot dwell inside of a physical person, uless you want to go Indiana Jones on someone. Common sence, well a Spirit body can not dwell inside a spirit body as well right. Acording to what I understand, which isn't much, As a spirit body I could still put my arm around my wife, or shake another spirit's hand....

That beings said I can't imagine The Holy Ghost dwelling inside someone having a spirit body. I therefore began to think that the Holy Ghost as a member of the God head must be an inteligence without a spirit body. For an intelligence can dwell in side of a spirit body.

Is there any Doctrine, SOLID doctrine that the holy ghost is a Begotton Son of GOD in the spirit? Or that he will someday recieve a body?

[a-train]

We know not the origin or destiny of the Holy Spirit. Further, I cannot say that I can indicate any source to which one may discover the nature of the spiritual body of the Holy Ghost himself.

Also, I cannot say that I can demonstrate from any revealed source that two spirit bodies cannot inhabit a single physical body at once. In fact, the scriptures would lead me to believe otherwise.

The most vivid examples would be the accounts of possessions by evil spirits in the New Testament. We know from modern revelation that the fallen spirits did indeed partake of the same first estate that we enjoy and possess spirit bodies just as we received from our Heavenly Father. Now, we cannot say with any certainty that possessed persons are physically inhabited by the evil spirit or whether the control over the victim's body can be maintained from some distance. But if we take the scriptures literally, they do cohabit the same physical space.

-a-train

[Yekcidmij]

Is there any Doctrine, SOLID doctrine that the holy ghost is a Begotton Son of GOD in the spirit? Or that he will someday recieve a body?

The Holy Ghost is not spoken of as being a Son of God. The Holy Ghost is equated to Jehovah:

Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved his holy Spirit,

so he turned into an enemy

and fought against them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old,

of Moses and his people.

Where is he who brought them up out of the sea

with the shepherds of his flock?

Where is he who put in the midst of them

his Holy Spirit,

14 Like livestock that go down into the valley,

the Spirit of Jehovah gave them rest.

So you led your people,

to make for yourself a glorious name.

In Isaiah 63, Israel rebelled and grieved Jehovah's Spirit. It specifically calls the Holy Spirit, "His" Holy Spirit and the "Spirit of Jehovah". In Psalm 78 when Israel's rebellion is spoken of, they "rebel" and "grieve" Jehovah:

Psalm 78: 40 How often they rebelled against him in the wilderness

and grieved him in the desert!

41 They tested Elohim again and again

and provoked the Holy One of Israel.

Jehovah and His Holy Spirit can't be seperated. Of course there may be an issue on whether or not the Holy Spirit is Jehovah's or Elohim's (if you were me though, that's not a problem).

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O Elohim,

and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from your presence,

and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation,

and uphold me with a willing spirit.

[richlittell]

Mark 5: 8-9

8 For [Jesus] said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

[Prodigal_Son]

I was always taught that the Holy Ghost was a spirit child, just like us... and would be the very last one to receive a body.

I'll have to look into the veracity of this teaching now...

That being said, Bruce R. McConkie said, "the Spirit is broadcasting all truth at all times." This sounds a bit different from the concept of Him dwelling literally within us. It ties more clearly to the whole "being in tune"... like a radio frequency...

Just thinking out loud here...

[richlittell]

the Holy Spirit is a personage, and that implies a spirit body.

Author: McConkie, Joseph Fielding

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the Holy Ghost is a spirit man, a spirit son of God the Father. It is fundamental Church doctrine that God is the Father of the spirits of all men and women, that Jesus is literally God's Son both in the spirit and in the flesh, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

( Holy Ghost - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism )

[OneEternalSonata]

"The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]

[palmoni]

It's just been on my mind. Yes I know the holy ghost is a personage of spirit, but our intelligence without a spirit body is also in the form of a personage. just because the foot note says spirit body doesn't mean what it says lol. I don't think the holy ghost possesing our physical bodies is the way it works.... when I think about it it's just not right you know that feeling? I'm probably the one who is wrong though. I don't know what else to say. The egyptians call the holy Ghost the invisable spirit, only manifested with the sighn of the dove. We have enough proof in the scriptures that Christ has a body of flesh and bones, why don't we know more about the holy ghost. Ya in primary we were taught that the holy ghost would be the very last one to recieve a body.... Doesn't sit well with me sorry. Any ways could anyone here accept that fact that maybe just maybe the holy Ghost is a Personage of Spirit but is not a spiritually begonnton son of God... he'd be on the same playing field as Christ because he's perfect right? What if and this is just mormon science fiction here...

What if the holy Ghost of the Plan of Salvation Previous to this one. Yes I'm saying there is one before this one. So this is the same plan that has been carried out for eternities... Plural. The holy ghost of the last plan is the Christ in this plan of Salvation, and the Holy Ghost of this plan of salvation is the Christ in the next plan of salvation. Of course only if the Holy Ghost is an intelligence would this be possible... and it's probably not lol

[Prodigal_Son]

What if the holy Ghost of the Plan of Salvation Previous to this one. Yes I'm saying there is one before this one. So this is the same plan that has been carried out for eternities... Plural. The holy ghost of the last plan is the Christ in this plan of Salvation, and the Holy Ghost of this plan of salvation is the Christ in the next plan of salvation. Of course only if the Holy Ghost is an intelligence would this be possible... and it's probably not lol

I see your thought process, and it's logical. But we don't have anywhere NEAR enough information to come to a decisive conclusion about this. There were obviously worlds/tests before ours, and (unless Heavenly Father retires) He'll prep another batch after ours...

[MobyMule]

It's just been on my mind. Yes I know the holy ghost is a personage of spirit, but our intelligence without a spirit body is also in the form of a personage. just because the foot note says spirit body doesn't mean what it says lol. I don't think the holy ghost possesing our physical bodies is the way it works.... when I think about it it's just not right you know that feeling? I'm probably the one who is wrong though. I don't know what else to say. The egyptians call the holy Ghost the invisable spirit, only manifested with the sighn of the dove. We have enough proof in the scriptures that Christ has a body of flesh and bones, why don't we know more about the holy ghost. Ya in primary we were taught that the holy ghost would be the very last one to recieve a body.... Doesn't sit well with me sorry. Any ways could anyone here accept that fact that maybe just maybe the holy Ghost is a Personage of Spirit but is not a spiritually begonnton son of God... he'd be on the same playing field as Christ because he's perfect right? What if and this is just mormon science fiction here...

What if the holy Ghost of the Plan of Salvation Previous to this one. Yes I'm saying there is one before this one. So this is the same plan that has been carried out for eternities... Plural. The holy ghost of the last plan is the Christ in this plan of Salvation, and the Holy Ghost of this plan of salvation is the Christ in the next plan of salvation. Of course only if the Holy Ghost is an intelligence would this be possible... and it's probably not lol

Where did you come up with that? I've seen some teaching like that before but outside the Church. Some claim BY taught something very much like what you suggested.

[NeuroTypical]

The Gospel Principles manual teaches that the Holy Ghost can only be in one place at a time, but his influence is felt everywhere.

LM

[Justice]

I noticed a couple of assumption you made.

well a Spirit body can not dwell inside a spirit body as well right.

This must not be a true statement since evil spirits can literally dwell in us. It is safe to assume that "good" spirits *can* dwell in us as well, but they choose not to so that we may keep our agency. Now, the Holy Ghost has a special mission and purpose and it may be necessary for Him to "dwell in us" from time to time. However, I also believe what has been said, that light, glory, and truth emanate from His presence and can dwell in us that way as well.

but our intelligence without a spirit body is also in the form of a personage.

This doesn't have to be the case. In everything I've read and studied, in fact, I guess it to be false.

Think of it like this. Physical matter exists in many different forms and shapes, and even formless and shapeless. But, physical matter is used to create our physical bodies. It does not take on the form of our body until it is "created."

The physical is intended to teach us of the spiritual. My guess is that intelligence is much like physical matter, in that it exists in many different forms, even formless. But, when we are first "born spiritually" those intelligences are organized into a spirit form of a man (or woman--since we know gender is eternal). Thus, we are born... and according to my view, our spiritual "creation" is more like our physical creation than we realize. I believe our spirits are literally born. Otherwise, there would be no need for eternal gender. Why this isn't more widely believed is because we out-think ourselves sometimes. We seem to like to over-comlicate things.

This is how intelligence and matter can both be eternal, yet Father's offspring can be born and come into existence both as spirits first, and as a soul next (spirit and physical).

That's about as simple as I can explain my opinion. I hope it helps.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Justice

[tubaloth]

(Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23.)

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

dwell in us I think is still kind of loosely use. I don't think its the same way as the devils poses us. Its more of a way of Spirit to Spirit communication. Because the Holy Ghost is a spirit it can communicate with other spirits are a different level. (Then a an intelligence can to spirit or to a human).

[aliasgeorge]

Palmoni,

I read your question about the Holy Ghost/intelligent reasoning. I believe that perhaps your line of reasing took an incorrect turn due to a misconception concerning "intelligences." Based on your reasoning, you see "intelligence" as a pre-sprit entity, which is organized as a being, but not a spirit child. I would challenge this notion as incorrect. Do you have any credible reference to back yourself? As far as I know, Cleon Skowsen originated this "intelligence theroy" that I've described, and others have supported him in it. the problem is that it is refuted by a first presidency and quorum of the 12 statement entitled "doctrinal exposition of the father and the son." And when the unified priesthood body speaks, you might as well put it in the d&C (see d&c 107:27,29). Here is a little explanation about "intelligences":

While Jesus Christ is the creator or organizer of all things under the direction of the Father (see Moses 2:1, Mosiah 3:8), we know that some of God’s other children were involved in the creation with Him. Abraham 3:22-24 says:

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

Abraham was shown all the intelligences of our Father in the pre-earth life. It is important to make a clear distinction between “intelligences” and “intelligence.” “By ‘intelligences’ we are to understand ‘personal spirits’” which were created from “intelligence,” or “the light of truth” which “was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (“The Father and the Son: a doctrinal exposition by the First Presidency and the Twelve” June 30, 1916, D&C 93:29) “Intelligences” is therefore synonymous with “spirit children,” and “intelligence” is the unorganized spirit matter from which God’s children were created.

In otherwords, spirit children were created out of unorganized spirit element, which is referred to as "intelligence." When Abraham speaks of "intelligences," which are organized, they are the same as spirit children. Its the same thing as how our physical bodies were created out of the dust of the earth. Physical body:spiritual body as dust of the earth:intelligence.