I never knew...

[melissar]

Several members of my husbands family are Baptist. They pray that we will see the error of our ways and be saved. However, they have said that we are better people since joining the Church.

[KTMxer_250f]

I have had several encounters with folks that have criticized my about being LDS. It's happen multiple times on temple square, sometimes I just have to argue with those arrogant rude folks protesting! It never gets anywhere though. Anyways, my girlfriend recently decided to get baptized in our church, but things at the last minute are going hay wire because of all these Christian preachers keep telling her mother that A. were a cult, B. We worship Joseph Smith, and C. We don't believe in Jesus. I mean its so ridiculous!! It's all a blatant lie! It makes me so angry and frustrated. I explained to her thoroughly how each of those statements aren't true, but I'm not sure it got anywhere.

My girlfriend's ex young life leader told her a little while ago when she was at his house that we believe in a different Jesus..... It's the stupidest thing I have ever heard in the world! The funny thing is he can't even think for himself because they ALL say that!!! EVery Christian that has a problem with our church! And they think were a cult?!?!? Every single anti-mormon christian person you talk too, no matter where, says the same stupid thing word for word. I mean come on, their just spitting out what their pastor or preacher has been telling them on the pulpit because they always have the same arguments.... I swear when you talk to these people they are brain dead.. No joke they can't even think cuz their so wrapped up in these stupid claims... It makes me so angry because it's just ruining everything right now but I know i just have to be patient and not have an hate towards these people because their just misguided but still, where in the bible does it say to ridicule others and protest outside their houses of worship and to EVEN protest the funeral of the President of their church (Pres. Hinckley)?!?!?!

You also here them quote revelations a lot, the verse about adding anything onto these things... It would seem by now that they would know that is not a valid argument seeing revelations wasn't that last book written.. And it says the same thing in Deuteronomy and Ecclesiastes... Just proving once again these folks are brain dead!!!!!!!!!

It was actually funny, one of those protestors at salt lake qouted that to my brother, and he turned to Deuteronomy and showed him where it said the same thing and the guy was like "Err ummmm yeah...I uhh see your point".. Then as soon as we left began to yell at the top of his lungs how we have "demon" doctrine and were going to hell...

end of rant.

[jimuk]

When I used to discuss "grace" with people of a different faith, I would approach the discussion as if we disagreed. When I grew older and *wiser* I realized that this was not true. LDS doctrine is very specific that we are saved by grace. If every single person who ever lived matured to be a righteous follower of Christ, abounding in good works, the combined good works of all people would not be enough to save any one person.

It is only through and in Christ that we are saved.

So, how do works enter the picture?

Obviously, one's understanding of saved and grace are the real keys. But, even without this understanding, the New Testament answers this question of works.

John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

To show this a different way:

Matthew 22:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

To be crystal clear, we too can ask of Christ, who is my neighbor?

Luke 10:

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Christ answered with the story of the Good Samaritan. Christ did not answer his question with a direct answer of "who" this man's neighbor is, but with a story showing "what it means to be a neighbor," even to an enemy.

With these scriptures, everyone will agree that Christ teaches, even commands, that we keep His commandments, which are to love God and to love our fellow man... if we love Him. If implies that if we do not keep His commandments then we do not love Him. It's not that "if" you keep His commandments you are saved, and if you do not you are not, but it is if you keep His commandments you love Him.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

If we call Him Lord then we believe Him, or believe in Him, enough that we believe what He says. He says to love our fellow men. If we do not, we cannot call Him Lord, or if by doing so we are hypocrites:

John 15:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

So, the standard scripture that teaches whoever believes in Him will be saved, is implying this kind of belief:

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So, it's not a belief we can contain in our hearts and not show.

Matt. 5:

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

And, if there is any question about works, grace, love, belief and commandments at this point, there is a scripture that neatly ties the whole package together. To clarify what the light is:

Matt. 5:

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

There is no disputing this scripture chain. We are judged by our works, whether they be light, as described above, or they be dark:

Eph. 5:

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Hmmm... If works of darkness are related to unfruitful works, I wonder of works of righteousness are compared to the white fruit Lehi saw? I'll leave that up to you to study. :)

It seems to me that there is a lot of "works " involved here, working at keeping the commandments, " working " at being like Jesus, and more, its so easy to see isen't it really.

How can somebody claim to love Jesus and not want to follow his "works".

Wouldent it be nice to love Heavenly father and Jesus, and to be able to do what one likes through life and keep saying "OOp's sorry".

[havejoy]

Rev. 20:12 &13

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This is from the KJV of the bible which, as a Baptist, we used growing up. I never got a satisfactory explanation from my family as to how this fit in with their Once Saved; Always Saved doctrine.

When my aunt found out about my brother having committed murder, her response was, "Well, thank goodness he's saved".

[bytor2112]

So. this statement is a curiosity to me. When there are many many scriptures in the NT and the BOM that are fairly plain on the "Grace" side, in the NT, as far as I can remember, there is only one vague reference in Timothy to how works play into it. Then take into account the history of Timothy compared with the works and council of the other NT apostles, and it is very clear that there is much more evidence for their views, than ours.

I suppose if you discount the words of the Saviour and ignore James and discount the teachings of the all the Prophets of this dispensation and totally disregard all that the church teaches....you might conclude that they have more evidence for their views than ours. If you are referring to the Bible only....one still has to ignore much of the teachings to come to your conclusion.

[georgia2]

The reasons "other" Christians say the (what we call dumb) things they do is because they don't read the scriptures, and they don't have a clue of the history of the Bible they have in their hand.

When I was a Baptist, I only knew what we studied in class, like a SUnday School lesson which would jump around from topic to topic not like we study our scriptures. They only study the parts they understand or are able to explain.

Then during the worship service, the pastor selects the text he wants to preach on and reads a few verses then expounds on them.

It wasn't until I began to wonder what church taught the most truth to take my son to that I learned the history of the Bible. Ask a regular member of another Christian church "Why did Martin Luther teach opposite what the Catholic church taught" they won't know it was because HE ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK AND KNEW WHAT tHEY WERE TEACHING WAS WRONG! Then study the history of what they did with the parts they didn't like, or didn't understand or didn't want the average joe to know. They changed it or omitted it altogether! I learned all about this from a dear friend who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. I don't know if most Catholics know about it or not, but for sure the average guy in other denominations don't, then there is always the point of it being translated SO MANY TIMES! Of course there will be mistakes. That is why Heavenly Father preserved the Book Of Mormon to only be translated ONCE, so there would be NO MISTAKES!

Have you ever looked up the word "cult" in the dictionary? Look it up and you will find that the real meaning of the word is not what most people expect.

[myway]

I was Baptist before I joined the church. I was stunned to know that baptist believe that Jesus and God are the same person. I went there all my life and always knew God and Jesus were 2 different entities. My goodness, when Jesus was baptized God spoke to him from heaven! Who was Jesus praying to if he was God?

After I joined the church i also heard my own mother say that we worship 2 different Jesus'! She calls the standard picture we use as the "Mormon Jesus" !

Sounds familiar. I too had a problem with the trinity being taught as it were in a lot of Evangelical Churches. The explaination seemed so vague and I had the same questions that you had about it.

I have a memory from when I was a young boy. I was so young. My Father took me to a Church. I do not remember what denomination it was. It was his first time going there as well. I do not recall ever going to a Church before. I remember that it was around the Holiday season though.

At one point in the Church service they had a magician perform some magic tricks for us kids. He explained about the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus. This was done by demonstration using a handkerchief and a magic box. It was fascinating to a kid like me.

There was one thing I distinctly remember though. I did not ponder God, or Jesus at that age. It never really ocurred to me. When I did begin to wonder about this at that time, watching that magic show, I just instictively knew that God and Jesus were two seperate individuals.... like I already knew this naturally. I can't explain how, I just knew.

I often wonder about that. A child knows that Jesus is the son of God. Seperate beings. Without question, instinctively. Yet a child has to be taught, or prodded into the way of the Evangelical belief of the Trinity.

I do not think that the different doctrines are truly paramount in the "Big picture". But the Evangelical Church uses this doctrine to levy charges against the LDS Church to prop up they're argument that the LDS Church, as well as a few other faiths are False.

[myway]

The reasons "other" Christians say the (what we call dumb) things they do is because they don't read the scriptures, and they don't have a clue of the history of the Bible they have in their hand.

When I was a Baptist, I only knew what we studied in class, like a SUnday School lesson which would jump around from topic to topic not like we study our scriptures. They only study the parts they understand or are able to explain.

Then during the worship service, the pastor selects the text he wants to preach on and reads a few verses then expounds on them.

It wasn't until I began to wonder what church taught the most truth to take my son to that I learned the history of the Bible. Ask a regular member of another Christian church "Why did Martin Luther teach opposite what the Catholic church taught" they won't know it was because HE ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK AND KNEW WHAT tHEY WERE TEACHING WAS WRONG! Then study the history of what they did with the parts they didn't like, or didn't understand or didn't want the average joe to know. They changed it or omitted it altogether! I learned all about this from a dear friend who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. I don't know if most Catholics know about it or not, but for sure the average guy in other denominations don't, then there is always the point of it being translated SO MANY TIMES! Of course there will be mistakes. That is why Heavenly Father preserved the Book Of Mormon to only be translated ONCE, so there would be NO MISTAKES!

Have you ever looked up the word "cult" in the dictionary? Look it up and you will find that the real meaning of the word is not what most people expect.

Good point. I am kind of curious though. By asking the questions of the Bible, by trying to unlock the mysteries of it, or finding out those parts that most do not understand, or finding the interpretations of those parts. I kind of wonder if the regular Church views that as sin?

[georgia2]

how could wanting to know and understand God better be a sin?

He loves it when we want to know him better!

[Tugstein]

Really?

I spend a lot of time on Yahoo! Answers, so I'm fairly desensitized to the "Mormonism is a cult!" hate message.

:]

[myway]

how could wanting to know and understand God better be a sin?

He loves it when we want to know him better!

I Have been following Kerry Shirts (The Backyard Professor), on youtube. He is an LDS Scholar and digs into a lot of subjects about the BOM. I really like him. He is currently doing a series on the whole Gods belief. Much of the researched documentation and scholarship on the subject would no doubt would put many a Evangelical on the defense. I wonder if the Evangelical Church would consider it a sin or blasphemy researching such material.

If you get the chance check out the Youtube post by the Backyard Professor. WOW to say the least.

[prisonchaplain]

"The Evangelical Church," is actually a movement within Protestant Christianity, comprising several denominations, and groups of churches in some other denominations. For example, both Calvinists (Presbyterian, Reformed Church, etc.) and Arminians (Methodist, Salvation Army, etc.) can be evangelical. Other churches, like the Evangelical Free Church, clearly are. The movement is marked by theological conservatism in general, and a belief that non-Christians need to be taught the gospel--that this is the primary task of the church at large.

Do evangelicals believe that it is a sin to try to know God better or to read non-evangelical religious writings? No, of course not. We are Trinitarian though, and so consider non-Trinitarian explanations of God to be deficient and heretical.

[RainofGold]

Right before I joined the lds church I visited the baptist church for a while. I thought it was a pretty neat religion.

And then the missionaries showed up at my door.

The pastor was very disappointed when he learned I was leaving his church to join the "evil church".

After a a lot of discussion between the missionaries and the pastor, the missionaries gave me the challenge to get baptized, and three months later I joined the church and it has being the best decision of my life.

I never saw the pastor again.

Rainofgold:p:p

[MrsHart]

There are many Christian denominations who believe that about the LDS faith.

Most Christian denominations believe that about ONE ANOTHER. Lol. They like to claim that Catholics aren't Christians, just like how they like to say that about Mormons, never minding the fact that Catholic is a very, VERY old Christian sect. Then, the Catholics like to say that the other Christian sects aren't "true" Christians because those sects are younger. Then, there are Mormons who claim that the other Christian sects are false because Joseph Smith's version is the correct one. Then, there is this "competition" (for the lack of a better word) about how "Irish Catholic" is "better" than "Roman Catholic" or vice-versa, or how "Utah Mormons" are "better" than Mormons from elsewhere, and vice-versa. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Lastly, we'd then see most religions FIGHTING with each other to prove that theirs is the most peaceful one. Ironic much?

Btw, a friend of mine is a Southern Baptist, and she definitely doesn't believe that about Mormonism. A church can teach anything it likes, but ultimately it is up to its followers to decide for themselves. However, I believe that churches should be more responsible in their teachings. Teaching hate and discrimination, whether blatantly or subtly, is very irresponsible; that is like parents who don't watch themselves or what they say around their children.

Georgia2: I know what you mean. There is one part in the Bible where Jesus tells the others not to call him God.

Edited October 20, 2008 by MrsHart

[Rico]

One test of a cult is that it often does not strictly teach that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who Himself is God manifested in the flesh."......

Now that's a confusing statement if I ever heard one. Of course that's from the same people who claim up and down that Jesus talked to Himself.

[Rico]

The reasons "other" Christians say the (what we call dumb) things they do is because they don't read the scriptures, and they don't have a clue of the history of the Bible they have in their hand.

When I was a Baptist, I only knew what we studied in class, like a SUnday School lesson which would jump around from topic to topic not like we study our scriptures. They only study the parts they understand or are able to explain.

Then during the worship service, the pastor selects the text he wants to preach on and reads a few verses then expounds on them.

I have been to plenty of those Sunday school classes. Most of the time I felt very uncomfortable. I would study a lot, but I had so many questions. Pastors didn't like answering things they didn't understand. The Book of Mormon took away many, if not all of my questions. I'd love to go back to all of those pastors who couldn't answer my questions and give them a Book of Mormon so that they, too, could find the truth.

[prisonchaplain]

Now that's a confusing statement if I ever heard one. Of course that's from the same people who claim up and down that Jesus talked to Himself.

Whoever teaches that Jesus talked to himself was not a Trinitarian.

[Rico]

Whoever teaches that Jesus talked to himself was not a Trinitarian.

If you are a trinitarian in the Baptist sense of the word, then you believe that Jesus talked to himself. The fact is simple, Jesus talked to God. If you believe that Jesus and God are one and the same, then you believe that Jesus talked to Himself.

I believe that Jesus and Heavenly Father are separate personages and when Jesus talks to God, He is talking to His Heavenly Father.

[Guest DeborahC]

Yeah, we're a "cult." ::chuckling::

I've heard so many untrue things about Latter Day Saints I could write a book!

Even my sons, who are no longer active, come to me on occasion ranting about someone at work who said this or that about Mormons! People are afraid of what they don't understand, and instead of taking time to understand, it's easier to throw stones.

Back in the early 1980's I had a friend who was a Baptist. She told me that she did "The Lord's work" and she was a really interesting person. She raised parakeets, and was really pretty and popular.

One day she called me and asked me if she could come to my house and invite some "friends" over to talk about the Bible and God. I said, "Sure!"

Well, what REALLY happened was that she invited the Missionaries over and her whole purpose was to TRAP them!

I was horrified that I had been a partner in this unknowingly.:eek:

Anyway, I was a bit naive and didn't figure out what was going on until the 3d set of missionaries (duhhh) but after a while, I began becoming very interested in what they were saying.

I ended up asking them back to talk to only ME and after a while, was baptized.

So her evil plan backfired! ::cackling with glee::::

She wasn't happy...

I found the literature she passed around to be insidious and hateful.

I was sad to lose her friendship, but thankful I had found out the truth for myself.

[jimuk]

Hmm, just a Logical thought. Whilst Jesus was on the earth, who was listening to the peoples prayers in Heaven.

As i have said many times, the scriptures are not there just for scholars/learned people, they are there for everyone who would take the time to read/hear the word of heavenly father, so doesn't it stand to reason that these words would be simple enough for all to understand.

When Jesus prayed to his father in heaven, that's it, he prayed to his father in heaven, where is the argument in that, what is there to not understand, where is the confusion.

Jesus is the "WORD" the word of the one who sent him, who is his, and our heavenly father, simple isn't it.

No wonder that there is a need for a Prophet to sort out all the confusion amongst our fathers children concerning the the word of god, that was written for all mankind.

Heavenly father is an unchanging god, he is not a respecter of persons, so his words are plain and simple for everyone., so read them and ponder a while, then you will see what a delight these words really are.

I know this is so simple it may pass over some peoples heads but i will say it anyway.

If i sent my child to the shop with a note to get milk i would not expect him to read this simple instruction and him to think to himself, Hmm dad has written milk but i "think" he really means eggs.

Why oh why can the bible not be read as it is, if we read it as i am sure heavenly father meant it to be read, then i do believe there would be just the one christian religion.

If Jesus was God/heavenly father, then he would have had to be praying to an even higher god, which i am sure he was not, he was praying to his father and the father of us all who is in heaven

The Holy Bible is there to Guide us, not to confound us, i am sure of this.

I thank god for a Prophet to guide us.

I am not looking to cause any bad feeling, i have written these simple words as the spirit would move me, so that all will know and understand what i am saying.

[Old Tex]

Several members of my husbands family are Baptist. They pray that we will see the error of our ways and be saved. However, they have said that we are better people since joining the Church.

I guess that you could tell them that you have been "saved", and now it's your exaltation that you are working on.