How to get the spark back?

[Maya]

Many good suggestions here. I would be so mean that I would get a babysiter and sneak in the club she is in to dans with her..... and see at the same time what is happening with my own eyes. Is she drunk when she comes home?

Then if it is ok, then I would make a good dinner and suprise her one evening.... frie marsmellows with a candle in the living room??? Something crazy.

She is in army? Are any of her friends married, any LDS?

Maybe I just would talk with her about the situation plain and strait. You cant keep on doing ...or letting her do this to you all the time. Find out why she is doing this. Maybe the respect thing is because she is the one working. Maybe you need to find a job, you were studying or how was it? But you take care of the kids at daytime? When do you study?

[checkerboy]

I can tell you the one thing you don't want to do is make her feel like you are trying to control her. That is what did me in. I know you hate the fact that she is doing these things but if you follow her or try to check up on her if she is anything like my ex it will drive you further apart. We just can't make others act like we want them to.

[lilered]

One of the interesting points of this thread I find is that we are really discussing reversal of the traditional roles here. Generally its the man that works all the time, stops off at the bar with his buddies, isn't really happy at home and the dutiful wife is left at home all day long with running the household and raising children.

In this case, of course the genders are switched, but the issues are the same. Hordaks wifes is responsible for her decisions and actions and as such will have to answer for them should she break her marriage convenants and violate Hordaks trust as well as possible failure in her parental duties. Any marriage is worth trying to save and certaintly those steps should be explored. But bottom line, she is still responsible for her own decisions and actions.

[maria1981]

Let me understand this. You and your wife have been married for five years and she is going out Clubbing with her girlfriends. Clubbing is a singles activity. Have you ever gone out and seen what goes on in these clubs? Maybe married couples might go but a married woman going with her girlfriends or co-workers. This is just asking for trouble.

She is married, a wife, a mother, time for her to decide that family is where it is at not out dancing and drinking with friends while husband is at home.

Ben Raines

i dont wont to upset u to much as u look very big and im a bit scared,

but this is not true for the good women who love thier husbands or partners,

i go out with girlfriends (not that often mind )

i would never dream of doing anything to hurt my partner i go out to have a dance and a giggle with the girls,

and so does my partner he goes out for meals and fishing with his male friends no girls aloud

why cant a young women go out and not be silly seems odd to think that all women will give in to temptation as we dont we can have a girly nite out and be good girls u know!!

this young mans problem is that his wife is very young and already has 2 wonderful children its all a bit much dont u think she is young and thinks she is missing out i felt like that when i had my first babie

i was confussed and shocked too, as becoming a parent is a massive thing and hard work something know one can prepare for

although i never went out all the time or do the things this young lady is doing it never stoped me from feeling that way

i even told my partner i was confussed an i wasnt sure we had made the right choice i was to young and i was 25 when i had my first

we had big fights over all this and nearly split up too,

but the bottom line was i loved him and my babie and that was that

when u give birth ur head and mind are not in the right place women brain fuction changes its a fact people we change and are thought patern is all over the place,

give her time it can last about a year after giving birth

if she truly doesnt love u then u need to be grown ups and sort out whot ur both going to do be posative about this as u cant have a lovless marrige this is not good for anyone even ur children will notice

mybe she just needs to feel as if she has a life too as u lose ur identaity when u have kids all new mums go through this u feel like u dont exsit anymore all ur thier for is the kids and ur life stops and when ur young u reblie against this to feel free

get a baby sitter and go out together let ur down have a bit of fun

let her have a girly nite out once a month

and u go fishing mybe once a month

do stuff as a family unit too on weekends when ur not working as long as ur time togther is fun and not boring go camping for a nite

camping can be romantic as well as a family fun time

let her feel free as a parent and wife its very healthy but also be stronge togther too

hope this helps

talk to her find the real problem and work on it if it realy is that she has fallen out of love then move on gracfuly

no sneaking around on her thats wrong and if u get found out u will just push her away even more

dont behave in a mannor of tryiong to catch her out or always thinking she is lying to u as u wont come across as loving her just controling her

and if u do that u wont have a wife anymore

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . Does a women who doesn't know what she wants and a man she doesn't respect who has lost his drive have a chance to reconnect.? . . . /QUOTE]

Hi Mr. Hordak:

Marriage can be so challenging -- the ebb and flow of life never stops long enough to get one's ducks in a row to perfectly navigate each new development. And often in our clumsiness, we hurt the ones we love the most.

When Mrs. Hordak says, "I don't respect you" she most likely is feeling no respect for herself either. You both have experienced so many life-changing events in the last 5 years -- two unplanned pregnancies, family deaths, medical issues -- that's a lot to handle for any young couple!! I suspect that Mr. and Mrs. Hordak were so busy simply surviving these huge issues that care for each other got put on the back burner.

Fine tune your antenna!! Mrs. Hordak once said (and I'm paraphasing), "I don't care if you be our Mr. Mom," but lately Mrs. Hordak has said, "I'm tired of defending your situation to my family and friends." Hear what she is saying and communicate, not only in words but ACTIONS that you get it!! Begin tackling your education now so that you are in a position to hit the ground running when the children are school age.

Mrs. Hordak could arguably be tried and convicted for conduct unbecoming a wife and mommy but I suggest you both opt for a deferred prosecution on this charge. Work diligently and expectantly with the marriage counselor -- even if she's lukewarm at first. FORGIVE HER and FORGIVE YOURSELF!!

Wrap this situation with love and faith like you never have before. You have a serious situation on your hands but it doesn't have to be hopeless. Reignite your mojo and who know what else will get reignited!!

[Guest ceeboo]

. . . Does a women who doesn't know what she wants and a man she doesn't respect who has lost his drive have a chance to reconnect.? . . . /QUOTE]

Hi Mr. Hordak:

Marriage can be so challenging -- the ebb and flow of life never stops long enough to get one's ducks in a row to perfectly navigate each new development. And often in our clumsiness, we hurt the ones we love the most.

When Mrs. Hordak says, "I don't respect you" she most likely is feeling no respect for herself either. You both have experienced so many life-changing events in the last 5 years -- two unplanned pregnancies, family deaths, medical issues -- that's a lot to handle for any young couple!! I suspect that Mr. and Mrs. Hordak were so busy simply surviving these huge issues that care for each other got put on the back burner.

Fine tune your antenna!! Mrs. Hordak once said (and I'm paraphasing), "I don't care if you be our Mr. Mom," but lately Mrs. Hordak has said, "I'm tired of defending your situation to my family and friends." Hear what she is saying and communicate, not only in words but ACTIONS that you get it!! Begin tackling your education now so that you are in a position to hit the ground running when the children are school age.

Mrs. Hordak could arguably be tried and convicted for conduct unbecoming a wife and mommy but I suggest you both opt for a deferred prosecution on this charge. Work diligently and expectantly with the marriage counselor -- even if she's lukewarm at first. FORGIVE HER and FORGIVE YOURSELF!!

Wrap this situation with love and faith like you never have before. You have a serious situation on your hands but it doesn't have to be hopeless. Reignite your mojo and who know what else will get reignited!!

Hello TheLutheran,

Very sound, great advice IMHO :):)

Especially considering it comes from a Lutheran :lol:( Kidding my friend ):)

Thanks for a " level " and generous contribution IMHO :)

God bless,

Carl

[Guest TheLutheran]

[quote=ceeboo;272120 . . . Especially considering it comes from a Lutheran :lol:( Kidding my friend ):) . . .

<---- That's me punching my pesky little Catholic brother in the arm for that comment!

Hey Mr. Hordak: How're things going for you? We're here for you!

Go Hordak! Go Hordak! Go Hordak!

[RainofGold]

[MorningStar; Hordak, she is walking all over you! Put your foot down. You let her talk you into surgery TWICE??? I say whichever spouse is more insistent on no more children should be the one to undergo surgery. Geez, a vasectomy is not like flipping a light switch. Stand up to her. She is treating you like crap going out clubbing too. There are certain things married women shouldn't do and that's one of them, unless you are going dancing with her. Have you seen the way people dance these days?]

I have to agree with MorningStar.

I can't see my husband or myself going out to clubs by ourselves. I think that when you go to those places you are looking for something more than just chatting with the girls. I am happy at home with my husband and children but I also have girlfriends that I like going out with to chat. But I go out with my girlfriends during the day, and usually go out for lunch or Starbuks or a walk on the beach.

Perhaps your wife is doing those things because she knows she can and she feels she is entitle to them because she is the one that is working. I suggest that you stand up to her and let her know what is expected from you marriage. You just can't let her walk all over you and not respect you as her husband.

I hope that it works out for you and she can see that she has a loving husband at home and doesn't find it necessary to go out clubbing.

Good luck,

Rain

[Elgama]

[MorningStar; Hordak, she is walking all over you! Put your foot down. You let her talk you into surgery TWICE??? I say whichever spouse is more insistent on no more children should be the one to undergo surgery. Geez, a vasectomy is not like flipping a light switch. Stand up to her. She is treating you like crap going out clubbing too. There are certain things married women shouldn't do and that's one of them, unless you are going dancing with her. Have you seen the way people dance these days?]

I have to agree with MorningStar.

I can't see my husband or myself going out to clubs by ourselves. I think that when you go to those places you are looking for something more than just chatting with the girls. I am happy at home with my husband and children but I also have girlfriends that I like going out with to chat. But I go out with my girlfriends during the day, and usually go out for lunch or Starbuks or a walk on the beach.

Perhaps your wife is doing those things because she knows she can and she feels she is entitle to them because she is the one that is working. I suggest that you stand up to her and let her know what is expected from you marriage. You just can't let her walk all over you and not respect you as her husband.

I hope that it works out for you and she can see that she has a loving husband at home and doesn't find it necessary to go out clubbing.

Good luck,

Rain

personally I would suggest she takes a week off, and looks after the kids full time during the day - you'll do some voluntary work if she still doesn't respect you then tell her you will go out to work full time and she can stay home

-Charley

[hordak]

Update.

Too many post to respond to individually so i thought i could try to address them here and give an update.

As to the why I got the surgery instead of her because she couldn't. Not sure if it's a state,insurance or Drs policy but they won't "tube tie" a woman under 25 unless she has 3 kids or more. My cousin, who lives in a different state,different insurance,Dr. etc. had this same problem. Seems odd to me a women can terminate pregnancy on demand but avoiding them is not within their maturity level.

As the the Proclamation and traditional roles.I believe the Prophet speaks the the church as a whole and not to the members individually.I.E. there are exceptions to the rule.IIRC The church also encourages unwed mothers to give children up for adoption and believes children should be raised by a mother and a father. While i believe the latter to be true we all know of exceptions that have worked out well and have seen it go wrong in some instances.I have seen a family split up because the MBA holding mother stayed at home while the father couldn't support a family of 6 on $6 an hour.There are exceptions to the rules.But no not too harsh.

We have talked about the club thing.It is difficult because it isn't some new behavior that came out of left field.It is something we both did before we met, while we where dating, and when we first got married.Saying you can't go out would be the equivalent of telling your hubby he can't go fishing with the guys. I told her how i feel, we set some ground rules.She declined the last invite because she wanted to spend time with me and gave me a call to see how I felt about her going to a going away party for a co worker before committing to it.

After a lot of talking and thinking we have come to the conclusion we have spent too much time focused on our jobs and not enough time on us as a couple or even us as individuals.In fact I had a rather depressing home teaching visit a little while back in which we where getting to know the family. I couldn't answer simple questions like whats your favorite band, or what do you like to do for fun, without extreme concentration.

I've spent the last 4 years defining myself only as a father while my wife has defined herself by her rank.We have lost sight of Mr and Mrs Hordak.

In order to solve the problem we have decided to start dating again.Not just going out without the kids(which we need and are shooting for but is few and far between) but trying to be more lovey douby. Focus on each other more and not sweat the small (or big)stuff so much. As she has been more considerate of me "don't worry I'll cook diner tonight" i have been more considerate to her "you've been on you feet all day let me give you a massage."

She has been more of herself lately and i have decided to go to school for me.To stop being idle.We are starting a marriage class next week and have set some life goals together.Before we were just living day to day and dealing with stuff as it came along.

Things have been better and she says she is at the point when we were dating which is an improvement from the friends/roommates feelings she had a few weeks ago.

Although i fulfill the traditional "womans role" I'm still a man and as such have limited imagination when it comes to acting on and building emotional intimacy through action. I really like the roasting marshmallows in the living room idea and could use some more

ideas like that.Cheap dates or dates we can have with the kids, or at home would be great advice considering back when we did date we had twice the income and no kids.

Any more ideas?

[MrsHart]

Update.

As to the why I got the surgery instead of her because she couldn't. Not sure if it's a state,insurance or Drs policy but they won't "tube tie" a woman under 25 unless she has 3 kids or more.

Then she could have gotten an IUC or IUD. They are as safe as sterilization, yet 100% revevrsible. IUC/IUD also do not require any surgery or cutting.

In the United States, the FDA has approved two brands:

Paragard: The website says that it is effective for 10 years, but my doctor told me that it's actually effective for up to 12 years. It is completely 100% hormone-free. The Paragard is about $600 before insurance, and when you divide that by 144 months, that's $4.16 a month.

Mirena: This has a very small dose of hormone (but way less than birth control pills), but it does not get into your bloodstream. The hormone stays only in the area that the Mirena is put in. Mirena is effective for 5 years.

Insertion: 10 seconds for the doctor/nurse practitioner to open the package; 5 seconds to insert it. The total time it takes (including small talk and preparation): Under 5 minutes.

Note: The old-fashioned IUD of the past (from the 1970s), called the Dalkon Shield, got a bad reputation, but this was when the design was still primitive, large, and was produced by a totally different company altogether. If people are afraid of today's IUDs, then they might as well stop using today's highly advanced condoms just because condoms of the past were primitive and not very effective; and they might as well stop using today's very safe and effective birth control pills just because the pills of the past had several times the hormones and were unsafe.

Edited October 17, 2008 by MrsHart

[hordak]

Then she could have gotten an IUC or IUD. They are as safe as sterilization, yet 100% revevrsible. IUC/IUD also do not require any surgery or cutting.

My second child is an IUD baby. We were the .9%

[RainofGold]

I would say you have to nurture your relationship first. When my kids where little I had no time for my husband and do regret it because he always insisted on us getting away for a weekend.

Sometimes we concentrate all of our time and energy on our children that we forget about our partners. I like what someone said once that if we want our children to grow up in a happy family we have to spent time with their daddy's, our husbands.

Well I finally wised up and starting leaving my kids with relatives and going away with my husbands for the weekends. Our relationship grew so much stronger and we got to know each other all over.

I'm not saying that you should go away every month. We try to do it four times a year and it has worked for us. Once a month we go out to dinner just the two of us and another the whole family. I think is also healthy for the children to be away from their parents, they learn to be a little more independent.

I hope the both of you invest in your relationship, is the best thing you can do for yourselves and for your children.

Best of luck,

Rainofgold

Edited October 17, 2008 by RainofGold

[MrsHart]

My second child is an IUD baby. We were the .9%

Wow.

I don't know what to tell ya. I'm stumped and out of suggestions.

Good luck.

[RachelleDrew]

We got pregnant with Eli on the Depo shot, so I completely understand. Some of us just don't have much luck with even the best birth control methods available.

"Saying you can't go out would be the equivalent of telling your hubby he can't go fishing with the guys."

No, it's not. Don't dupe yourself into thinking this way. Your wife can certainly go out with friends and get away occasionally, and she SHOULD go out and have time with friends. But clubbing simply is not appropriate for a mother. If the two of you went out dancing as a couple then that would be one thing.

Why can't she go shopping? Get involved with a local sport team? There is plenty of crap to do, why does she HAVE to go out to a club?

I am a convert, and before my conversion to the church I was constantly going to bars, clubs and raves. I know what goes on in those environments, and even as wild as I was then I STILL would have said that a mother going out clubhopping is stupid and not appropriate.

My friends and I were all junkies hordak, as low as our standards were for ourselves, even we didn't hang out with the barmommies.

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . After a lot of talking and thinking we have come to the conclusion we have spent too much time focused on our jobs and not enough time on us as a couple or even us as individuals. . . . In order to solve the problem we have decided to start dating again. . . ./QUOTE]

Mr. Hordak~~

Congratulations!! Sounds like you and Mrs. Hordak have tenderly listened to each other and joined hands (and hearts) to head in the same direction.

Cheap dates? Anything and everything to do with nature -- walk in the crunchy falling leaves that smell like no other perfume on earth. If you're in snow country -- sledding, build a snowman, create snow angels. Bonfires (the best!). Play in the park. These are all kid-friendly too!

[Elgama]

Cheapest dates we have as parents are something nice to drink, a nice meal, box of chocolates and the TV lol costs us about $6 we get to bed early etc

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

Charley, I wish more people could think about the small moments does not need to cost very much. It just spending those moments together...

[maria1981]

Hordak, I am very sorry that you are going through this. I did not read all the responses from the other forumers, but I did read your postings in this thread, and here are the impressions that I get of your wife:

1. She's lonely. I know this sounds crazy, considering that she goes clubbing with her friends and such, but I think that she feels lonely within her marriage and family life. Perhaps not physically lonely, but emotionally lonely. You mentioned that you two go out alone only once or twice a year, which doesn't sound enough to me. Can you find someone to watch the kids while you go out on your dates, once a week? I understand that your children are part of the family, but you don't need to take them with you everywhere.

2. She goes out so much because while out, she feels that she is experiencing the fun that she feels no longer exists at home. Also, she could be depressed.

3. Maybe she wasn't ready to handle the responsibility that comes with having a family, and now feels the need to make up for "lost times."

4. She's bored. It's not an excuse, but it could be the reason.

Maybe your wife doesn't know how to talk to you about these things, and when she does talk to you, she is not giving you the whole story because she feels held back somehow.

this is right honestly u have no idea whot its like for a woman to give birth then feel all those realy odd feelings

we have no idea ourselves why we feel this way or whot to do lonely is right

are bodies change we feel less atractive to are partners all sorts is going on to are bodys and are minds

just take ur time bring the love back its hard work but well worth it if u love eachother ur love will be stronger when u get through this;)