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[IronLion]

Ive just joined these forums as i want to find out if the lds church is true. Something draws me to the church and yet when i read the BOM i find myself in doubt with things im reading. Its hard when the church itself feels so right, but its one major thing, (bom) is what keeps me away. I just get nothing but doubts reading the BOM yet some strong thing in me says i need to join the church. Im so confused Any ideas? I pray and pray and pray and nothing ever feels like its telling me to do something either way. I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and his claims and thats what makes it hard. Im really confused and frustrated and just want something to point me where I Should go.

[Dr T]

Its hard when the church itself feels so right, but its one major thing, (bom) is what keeps me away. I just get nothing but doubts reading the BOM yet some strong thing in me says i need to join the church. Im so confused Any ideas? I pray and pray and pray and nothing ever feels like its telling me to do something either way. I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and his claims and thats what makes it hard. Im really confused and frustrated and just want something to point me where I Should go.

maybe you're answer is in not getting anything but only your desire for it to be true? Of couse people will just say "keep praying and you'll get something" but that's just added to the self fulfilling prophecy thing IMO. I'd love to point u were to go, but that wouldn't do anything for u. All I can say is seek God, knock and he will answer and all that good Christian stuff

[Truegrits]

Hi IronLion;

I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith

My prayers are to Heavenly Father, in the name of the Savior, Jesus Christ; that is whose "hands" I am in.

While I have a testimony of Joseph Smith as a Prophet, it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[Elgama]

ok I'll let you into a big secret I was a full 14 years after my baptism before I gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon and its took me a little bit longer to say the Church is True - rather than knowing it was True for me, and it was where my God wanted me to go... I gained a testimony of Joseph Smith about 6 months after my baptism following a meeting where I experienced something he described in the first vision.

For me my life has always been in Heavenly Father's hand.... what helped me gain the rest of my testimony has been living the gospel and letting experience teach me.

For my testimony of the Book of Mormon, I retook the discussion lessons I just knew it was time to find out for myself rather than coasting on it was true because Heavenly Father said so - talking to the missionaries I realised I had testimonies of certain chapters so I started keeping a prayer journal and praying about it line upon line, precept upon precept, chapter by chapter - and now I have that testimony of each dot in the book. The prayer journal was very important and has proved very important since in my spiritual life as I realise now I sometimes forget about my prayers but they get answered even so. Also i see my own spiritual growth - as a result of this I gained the testimony of journal keeping I had always wanted.

This talk at April's general conference was the moment I finally knew the church wasn;t just where I needed to be and true for me and my family it was headed by Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and the root to exaltation

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The True and Living Church

It reminded me of what the priesthood had done in my life and that is where my testimony has really always been - I got baptised because I have known since I was 6 I needed baptism and in the missionaries I found something that told me it was the way I could be baptised like Jesus.

Hope this makes sense

-Charley

[goofball]

It is a struggle for your soul right now and it is going to take constant daily work on your part for the rest of your life. Keep working and it will come.

Read the Book of Mormon like you would the Bible. Also pray before you pick it up and read it daily. I don't doubt it will come and you will be that much stronger in your testimony if you have to work at it. The Lord since the beginning of days rewards those and will often make sure you have proved yourself before giving what He knows we need.

[mnn727]

I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith .

I've never put my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and I joined 15+ years ago as an adult in my 30's. I still don't. My soul is in the hands of God the Father and His son Jesus.

I had my doubts also when I first read the BoM. at one point I took it and tossed it across the room in disgust. It was right after I read Ether 9:19 saying the Jaredites had horses and elephants. I tossed it so hard it hit the wall and went behind my entertainment center which made it hard to retrieve. Funny thing about that passage, God had something different in mind for me, that very week I was flipping through the channels and came across a show on Discovery Channel that was talking about the Pacific Coast Pygmy Elephants that lived in Southern California, Mexico and parts of Central America and they've found bones dated between 5000 - 10,000 years ago, which puts it just barely in the time line for the Jaredites.

In researching horses, while they were not plentiful until the Spanish Conquistadors brought them over, archeoligists have found bones dating prior to that time in the America's. I moved the entertainment center and retreived the BoM.

As far as getting an answer to my prayers -- at least the kind of answer I was looking for (in looking back I see I was getting answers all along, I just wasn't paying atention) I didn't get the obvious kind of answer I was looking for until I changed my prayers. Originally I was praying to find out if the Church was true, but I didn't get my answer until I changed that to add "and I'll do what you want me to do if you would show me".

You see wanting to know is just not enough, what God is looking for is the willingness to DO, to act upon that knowledge, and I am not just talking lip service here. I had been reading and going to Church for almost a year and I really liked what I heard and felt, but until I was willing to act on that, to do what God wanted me to, I did not get my answer. Once I was honestly willing to act, I got my answer within the month. I had what we call "a mighty change of heart"

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Oh and BTW: I didn't have a testimony that Joseph was a Prophet until after my baptism, about 8 -10 months after -- but thats a whole different story.

Edited October 18, 2008 by mnn727
thought I could spell, guess I was wrong

[Guest ceeboo]

Ive just joined these forums as i want to find out if the lds church is true. Something draws me to the church and yet when i read the BOM i find myself in doubt with things im reading. Its hard when the church itself feels so right, but its one major thing, (bom) is what keeps me away. I just get nothing but doubts reading the BOM yet some strong thing in me says i need to join the church. Im so confused Any ideas? I pray and pray and pray and nothing ever feels like its telling me to do something either way. I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and his claims and thats what makes it hard. Im really confused and frustrated and just want something to point me where I Should go.

Hello IronLion,

Hang in there my friend :) we are ALL on our journeys.:)

Not sure this forum will give you your answer " is the LDS Church true ".

I guess that would depend who, on this forum, you ask.

This forum will offer you a wealth of perspectives, knowledge, sharing of thoughts, friendships, advice, and much more. ( But will not, IMHO, answer your question)

God bless,

Carl

[ztodd]

Ive just joined these forums as i want to find out if the lds church is true. Something draws me to the church and yet when i read the BOM i find myself in doubt with things im reading. Its hard when the church itself feels so right, but its one major thing, (bom) is what keeps me away. I just get nothing but doubts reading the BOM yet some strong thing in me says i need to join the church. Im so confused Any ideas? I pray and pray and pray and nothing ever feels like its telling me to do something either way. I think what scares me is that im putting my soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and his claims and thats what makes it hard. Im really confused and frustrated and just want something to point me where I Should go.

What exactly are you praying for? I hope you're praying to understand what you're reading and what God wants you to know about what you're reading. The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ- are you reading it for that, to strengthen your testimony of Christ?

How long have you been reading it? What is it that you're struggling to understand in it, or that you're having doubts about?

[bytor2112]

It is important to remember that the Book of Mormon is not the Bible......it is different in that it speaks of Christ and the plan of salvation in a clear and understandable format and answers questions hidden or not available through Biblical scripture only. I find that the Spirit comes in different ways and at different times and not always at the exact moment we are seeking a specific answer. Sometimes the Lord responds to our prayers through people or impressions or things like being drawn to the church......as an answer to whether JS was a prophet or the BOM is scripture. I didn't read the BOM cover to cover until three years ago and didn't really have a strong testimony of it......yet I knew the church was true and that JS was a prophet. Sometimes it comes little by little.......

[applepansy]

I'd just like to add. . .Joseph Smith did not WRITE the Book of Mormon. He translated it from ancient plates. Whether you believe hsi story to be true or not, the message in the Book of Mormon is very simialr to the New and Old Testament in that all three teach and talk of Jesus Christ, The Son of God.

Some times we have to move ahead in faith before we receive a witness. I know I've had to at times in my life.

Don't stop trying to find an answer.

applepansy

[Misshalfway]

There is a few things to keep in mind.

First of all, is that God does answer prayers. If the BofM is false God will give that answer just as surely as the opposite. Second, He answers in his wisdom for each of us. That means that each of us are on different time lines based upon any number of individual factors. You won't be putting your soul in the hands of Joseph Smith and his claims. You are putting your soul in the hands of God.

I find that there are a number of things that I do in my life to get answers. I pray everyday. I find I get more answers, even unsolicited, when I kneel and pray outloud every day and then have a prayer in my heart as I go thru the day.

Obedience is an important part of getting answers. It helps to humble us to God's will. And humility is an important piece.

Fasting is a helpful practice in getting answers. Generally the fasting of two meals (24 hours) is sufficient to bring someone into a higher spiritual state.

Faith. Believing that God will answer. Even knowing God will answer. And having patience that He is the one leading me by the hand and that he will answer in his time and in his way. I also think that God leads us to different truths first. He gives us line upon line. He starts with promptings. I am guessing that those deeper feelings that attract you to the church may be Spiritual promptings. The way you are describing them seems similar to what I feel. I don't think God removes all of our doubt at once. I think he gives us the prompting or the nudge and he waits to see what we do next. If we follow the feeling and go in his direction, then he gives us more. And slowly the "more" rounds out to a nice global self knowledge on lots of different fronts.

Keep reading the book. Stay the course in patience for a little longer. If you are following God, I am not saying that you won't experience fear and doubt. There is usually more fear and doubt when we approach truth, because the adversary doesn't want us to have the truth. The test is what we decide. Do we give into fear? Or do we follow the prompting thru the fear? That is where the answers are. The peaceful ones that fill us up and quench our fear and doubt. But they are generally on the other side of the test.

Trust. Be believing. Banish fear. God doesn't deal in fear. And identify that Spirit and follow it! If God spoke to Joseph, He will tell you he did.

[Dr T]

If the BofM is false God will give that answer just as surely as the opposite.

1/2, so do u think that can be through withholding feelings that it is true? What about if he tells others that it is not true. Would u accept that as an answer too?

[rockwoodchev]

I would suggest that you go very slow. Find out more details about some of the earlier history of the church. What you don't want to have happen is that you find out now that it was one way, and then find out 5 years from now that the original story was incorrect. I think if you just start with the factual way, you'll not have a challenge and be a better member, and be happier.

Go slow, do some research, and ask the tough questions you'll find on the internet.

[ztodd]

1/2, so do u think that can be through withholding feelings that it is true? What about if he tells others that it is not true. Would u accept that as an answer too?

I hope it's ok if I answer...

It's up to every person to follow what they feel God tells them to do. Since we who already have a testimony of the church have received a "yes" answer to our question, it's natural for us to be skeptical of someone who says they received a "no" answer from God to the same question. Of course we wonder why they say they received such an answer. But it's still up to them to determine if they feel they truly received an answer, or to keep searching it out if they feel an answer is yet to come.

Naturally I believe that a lack of feeling any particular inspiration is not the same as a "no" answer. I believe that's a sign to us that we need to keep searching it out.

This is how the Spirit will speak to us-

1 Kings 19

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

Doctrine and Covenants 9

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

The way I look at it, it's not often that the Lord gives an actual "no" answer- rather He waits for us to ask the right question to which He can give us a "yes" answer. And remember that He also waits for us to be ready to act before we receive the answer...

Ether 12

6 ...faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

.

[Dr T]

I do not mind and I thank you for your thoughts Ztodd. K, so reasons mounted against it being an affirmative could be God saying "No". Would u agree with that assertion?

[pam]

I would suggest that you go very slow. Find out more details about some of the earlier history of the church. What you don't want to have happen is that you find out now that it was one way, and then find out 5 years from now that the original story was incorrect. I think if you just start with the factual way, you'll not have a challenge and be a better member, and be happier.

Go slow, do some research, and ask the tough questions you'll find on the internet.

Are you saying do the research about the tough questions on the internet? Well I disagree with that. Most of the sites you will go to to find the answers to those "hard questions" are going to be nothing more than anti-Mormon sites. Is that where you want people to search?

To me talk to missionaries...ask them the "hard questions." If they don't know answers they for sure will find them. Talk to local Church Leaders...if they don't know the answers they for sure will find them.

[Dr T]

Pammy, then the options are biased on one side or the other. Either it's people proselytizing or it's "anti" or going against what is held by LDS members. How would u suggest arriving at an accurate, nonslanted perspective for him?

[pam]

Well Dr T...I am LDS. An LDS perspective in my opinion would of course be an accurate perspective. But I understand what you are saying. I'm just saying...there are some pretty bad sites out there that have lies and extremely flaming things said about the Mormon religion. Those certainly don't give an accurate perspective.

The same would hold if you were studying the Catholic religion. Why go to sites that are extremely derogatory towards the Catholic religion. Again no honest or accurate perspectives there either.

[ztodd]

Pammy, then the options are biased on one side or the other. Either it's people proselytizing or it's "anti" or going against what is held by LDS members. How would u suggest arriving at an accurate, nonslanted perspective for him?

Why would you say the answers are biased if they're coming from LDS members? We only report the facts about our beliefs and our history. If asked a "tough question", we're not going to lie about it. We don't try to persuade people to believe as we do either- or at least we shouldn't... what we do (or should do) is just share the message and then leave it up to them to find out if it's true.

Contrast this method with the methods used by those who are critical of the church. They often use half-truths and distorted view points to try to persuade you that our church is not a true church of God. Which method sounds more biased?

You go to a catholic to learn about catholics, you go to a mormon to learn about mormons. It just makes sense.

[pam]

Ztodd I think you just said the same thing I did...only MUCH better. Thanks.

[ztodd]

I do not mind and I thank you for your thoughts Ztodd. K, so reasons mounted against it being an affirmative could be God saying "No". Would u agree with that assertion?

I'm not sure what you're saying... are you saying that if you find reasons to doubt, then that might be God giving you those reasons to doubt?

Well, we know that not everything that enters our minds and hearts comes from God, right? So how do we determine what thoughts and feelings come from God, and which are just coming from our own minds and emotions? It takes some practice, some patience, a lot of humility and searching for the truth...

We're here to have our faith tested, to see if we will act in faith on the principles of righteousness that are sown within us- our consciences so to speak. Some people faithfully follow their consciences and learn to recognize their subtle influences more and more, and so they more easily recognize the voice of God in their lives. There are others that have more often ignored that voice of righteousness that tries to speak to them throughout their lives, and so it becomes harder for them to know when God is speaking to them, unless they become humble and exercise faith (an action word) in order to receive the desired witness.

It's not an easy thing to always recognize when God speaks to us. We usually have to be listening intently and sincerely, and be willing to act when we hear it, even if it goes against what is comfortable for us.

[ztodd]

Ztodd I think you just said the same thing I did...only MUCH better. Thanks.

Ah shucks, it wasn't that great. :)

I appreciated your answer as well. I think it is usually the case that hateful critics will show more bias then those who are favorable. And it's hard to find someone completely neutral who is still interested enough in the church to give some good information about it. Once someone gets interested in learning about it, he or she will quickly develop an opinion one way or the other.

[Elgama]

1/2, so do u think that can be through withholding feelings that it is true? What about if he tells others that it is not true. Would u accept that as an answer too?

In my experience a withholding of a definite feeling is the answer I don't like - be patient its not time yet, a yes or no answer is more definite. I do think keeping a prayer journal is the way to truly recognise answers as humans we tend to forget or sometimes that still smalll voice is stiller than normal and you have something to observe.

Like MissH has said things like praying everyday, reading your scriptures, holding Family Home Evening, Fassting (although I can't do the latter) - increase your spirituality and ability to recognise answers, partaking of things against the Word of Wisdom not watching what you see or listen too etc decreases your ability to recognise them. Every commandment and thing we are advised to do in LDS beliefs is there to increase your relationship with God.

I don't know who said it first but its an oft quoted 'the genius of Mormonism is that everything physical is also spiritual'

-Charley

[rockwoodchev]

Are you saying do the research about the tough questions on the internet? Well I disagree with that. Most of the sites you will go to to find the answers to those "hard questions" are going to be nothing more than anti-Mormon sites. Is that where you want people to search?

To me talk to missionaries...ask them the "hard questions." If they don't know answers they for sure will find them. Talk to local Church Leaders...if they don't know the answers they for sure will find them.

In my opinion, here are some tough question, and the answers he would receive from the missionaries. The "Q" is the question. The "A" is what the missionary would answer. and the "truth" is the full story as fully documented by the church. And which any new investigator has the right to know.

1. Q. Why was Joseph Smith killed?

A. He was wrongly accused and was led like a lamb to slaughter.

Truth: He ordered the destruction of private property (a printing press and office) while the Mayor of his town. He then fled and returned where he was captured.

2. Q. Did Joseph Smith practice polygamy?

A. No

Truth: There is proof that Joseph Smith married 33 wifes, including 2 teenagers, and many women who were all ready married to other men. He denied this was happening and even hid it from his wife.

3. Q. How did Joseph translate the plates?

A. He had the plates in front of him, often with a sheet separating him and the scribe, then with the use of the U &T (sometimes not) he would read word for word from the plates.

Truth: There is no validated evidence that the plates nor the U&T were ever used in the translation process. He was inspired to put the rock in the bottom of a hat and then read the words that appeared.

4. Q. Has any evidence ever been found to prove the story of the Book of Mormon. Where are the horses, the Elephants, the geography, the mounds of steel swords, breastplates, and helmets? Why is the DNA of the present day "Lamanites" not connected in any way to people of middle eastern descent?

A. Uhhh... You'll learn about the meat of the gospel later in your life after you've joined the church.

There are about 20 additional items I could bring up. Not one of these items or examples comes from a single anti-mormon site. They come from our own material, but is buried so deep or hidden that it takes historians to find out. Also, I'm fully in the church and currently teach in the seminary program. This person deserves to know about the truth and not the watered down (not fully true) version that we get fed as "Milk" while never being taught the "Meat".

Edited October 19, 2008 by rockwoodchev

[Dr T]

Why would you say the answers are biased if they're coming from LDS members? because they are sir. We only report the facts about our beliefs and our history. If asked a "tough question", we're not going to lie about it. We don't try to persuade people to believe as we do either- or at least we shouldn't... what we do (or should do) is just share the message and then leave it up to them to find out if it's true. with the ultimate goal to convert as many to the LDS church as possible and therein is the bias

Contrast this method with the methods used by those who are critical of the church. They often use half-truths and distorted view points to try to persuade you that our church is not a true church of God. Which method sounds more biased?

You go to a catholic to learn about catholics, you go to a mormon to learn about mormons. It just makes sense.

I agree, go to the source but I'd also say consider your source - that's all :)