An honest question

[Pyotr]

From my last thread created, it's obvious I'm trying really hard to develop my own testimony of Prop 8. This thread isn't going to be about Prop 8, only about my own struggles. Constantly, during the past two sacrament meetings, youth groups, etc. that I've been in, the only thing I've heard about Prop 8 is that everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom, and that members of the church who don't have a super-strong stance for Prop 8 shouldn't even be members at all, and should be excommunicated. I've kept my lack of strength on Prop 8 secret for obvious reasons (and I have not given any information about myself for these same reasons). It saddens me greatly when I come to sacrament meeting for feeling of friendship, love, and support, all people want to do is indirectly condemn and bash me.

So, my question is this: is there a loving, kind environment that I can go to in order to develop my testimony for Prop 8? Sacrament meeting used to be it, but it's not anymore. Church isn't anymore, even. I'm just very lost right now.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Pyotr
Wow, I really fail at spelling.

[Elgama]

I am sorry that is happening to you - its happened here a couple of times but Church should be for uplifting and edifying not airing of political views, I know many church members who don't have a super strong view in California but they are just waiting for it to blow over - sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and to pray to the Lord for the testimony.

-Charley

[deseretgov]

So, my question is this: is there a loving, kind environment that I can go to in order to develop my testimony for Prop 8? Sacrament meeting used to be it, but it's not anymore. Church isn't anymore, even. I'm just very lost right now.

Well I don't know of any place you should go. But THis is something you need to work on between you and the Lord. Don't let anyone else tell you how to act. If the prophet says something we know it is right but it is still up to us to develop our own testimony about those things. I guess i would suggest you go into your room or somewhere private. Take you scriptures, read them and pray. You might even consider fasting about it.

Don't let anyone else tell you that you can't make it to the celestial kingdom because of this. They have no authority to declare you unworthy of the celestial kingdom. Only Christ can do that!

[prisonchaplain]

"How could anyone call themselves a Christian and vote . . . ???" You hear this, and listen, and think, "Well...I see why you feel strongly, but wow, I thought Jesus avoided saying much of anything about politics?" I'd say most evangelical churches were like this in 2000 and 2004, but less so this year. In fact, Christianity Today recently pointed out that for every evangelical concerned with abortion and gay marriage, you now have others concerned with poverty and global warming. I have my views, but I generally don't voice them too strongly and work or at church, since political conquest is not the primary mission in either venue.

[Kirajo]

"everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom, and that members of the church who don't have a super-strong stance for Prop 8 shouldn't even be members at all, and should be excommunicated. " I think if ANYONE heard those exact words at church, they'd all run for the door. Which is why I think you took things that were said too harshly because of your insecurities. It's totally fine to be conflicted but in the end you cant serve 2 masters. Study prop 8, pray about and let Him lift your burdens.

[Pyotr]

I didn't say that I heard all of that at church at the same time, that sentence was constructed from a variety of things that I have heard from a variety of church sources (conversations, blogs, youth group meetings, etc.). I apologize for being unclear: consider the sentence as a conglomerate of the voices of various people. I do not feel that I have a problem with insecurity at all (tell me I'm evil all you want, I don't care), I just was looking for a loving, supportive place to develop my testimony for Prop 8.

Thanks to everybody who have given me good suggestions so far. It really helps. :)

[Islander]

From my last thread created, it's obvious I'm trying really hard to develop my own testimony of Prop 8. This thread isn't going to be about Prop 8, only about my own struggles. Constantly, during the past two sacrament meetings, youth groups, etc. that I've been in, the only thing I've heard about Prop 8 is that everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom, and that members of the church who don't have a super-strong stance for Prop 8 shouldn't even be members at all, and should be excommunicated. I've kept my lack of strength on Prop 8 secret for obvious reasons (and I have not given any information about myself for these same reasons). It saddens me greatly when I come to sacrament meeting for feeling of friendship, love, and support, all people want to do is indirectly condemn and bash me.

So, my question is this: is there a loving, kind environment that I can go to in order to develop my testimony for Prop 8? Sacrament meeting used to be it, but it's not anymore. Church isn't anymore, even. I'm just very lost right now.

I can believe that there has been an extraordinarily long and protracted exchange about Prop 8 in the last few weeks in church. I would sincerely doubt that you would be considered evil by anyone for not having a testimony of it. I suspect you are having other challenges in your life right now and the tension surrounding this issue has gotten to you lately.

You seem quite vulnerable at this point and I caution you about "wandering" about looking for answers. God does not move but we do for various reasons at different times in our lives. I would encourage you to seek the counsel of your Bishop and Youth leaders about how you feel and leave the Porp 8 issue to the side.

[bytor2112]

We are voting in Florida on a similar bill.....but I have never heard anyone in my Ward even mention it......and rightly so. I am not at church to debate politics, but rather to be spiritually fed and partake of the sacrament. That being said, I find it a very sad state of affairs that we are forced to pass a vote defining marriage.....it should be so very obvious. I have a great deal of compassion for "gay" people and would not deny them them the rights available under civil contracts, yet, at the same time I am not going to vote to change marriage. Feeling empathy for those involved in lifestyles that are out of step with the Lord's will is one thing......putting a stamp of approval on it by my vote is another. My suggestion would be to focus on the gospel and don't bring politics into church. Secular ideals really have no place in the church and the adversary is casting a big lie out there. In eternity...this will not help these people one little bit....it will only add to the confusion they must surely feel....or felt, before the adversary whispered and pop culture announced that it was normal and acceptable and decided to foist it upon us all.....and the real victims are the ones who so desperately want it.......just my opinion.

I think it is important to remember that we are all eternal beings and here for a very specific purpose....to prepare ourselves to meet God....to return to his presense and continue the journey, not get sidetracked by our proclivities or our weaknesses. We are here for such an insignificant amount of time compared to eternity, yet our choices have eternal consequences.

Edited October 26, 2008 by bytor2112

[Traveler]

From my last thread created, it's obvious I'm trying really hard to develop my own testimony of Prop 8. This thread isn't going to be about Prop 8, only about my own struggles. Constantly, during the past two sacrament meetings, youth groups, etc. that I've been in, the only thing I've heard about Prop 8 is that everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom, and that members of the church who don't have a super-strong stance for Prop 8 shouldn't even be members at all, and should be excommunicated. I've kept my lack of strength on Prop 8 secret for obvious reasons (and I have not given any information about myself for these same reasons). It saddens me greatly when I come to sacrament meeting for feeling of friendship, love, and support, all people want to do is indirectly condemn and bash me.

So, my question is this: is there a loving, kind environment that I can go to in order to develop my testimony for Prop 8? Sacrament meeting used to be it, but it's not anymore. Church isn't anymore, even. I'm just very lost right now.

I did not know there was a debate about the needs of children. It appears to me that the very best that society can offer children is an atmosphere where all agree and understand that the ideal family is where the genetic father and genetic mother love and care for their offspring in a stable marriage.

I see nothing wrong with society giving favor and support to the ideal family and marriage. I would love to have a deep and open discussion about what constitutes holy matrimony and why some feel the desire and deed to change it. However, I have discovered that when personal pleasures, passions and desires are involved that reason is freely discarded and resentment and hate are use to blame any opposition.

Can we have a discussion about how we can improve the current social supports for children? I have never heard that those that oppose Prop 8 in California are doing so for the sake and improvement of how society treats and cares for innocent children.

The Traveler

[rameumptom]

Just focus on the spiritual things. You are a fairly new member, and should be focusing on core doctrines, not political issues.

Relax, and seek God in your own way. The vote will come up in a week or so, it will be over, and then the focus will be on other things in Church again.

There will be radicals, even in Church, who will turn every person with doubts into a follower of Satan. That just isn't so. Your job is not to fight against what the Church leaders are doing. You just need to "be still and know that I am God." Focus on the spiritual things, read the scriptures and General Conference reports online, and know that these troubled times are but for a moment.

[MrNirom]

My Mom and Dad finally learned after many years together that they did not discuss politics.. or voting. My mother's philosophy was to vote opposite of my Dad... therefore canceling out his vote.

He learned to say nothing!

[deseretgov]

My Mom and Dad finally learned after many years together that they did not discuss politics.. or voting. My mother's philosophy was to vote opposite of my Dad... therefore canceling out his vote.

He learned to say nothing!

That's interesting.

[countrygirl66]

From my last thread created, it's obvious I'm trying really hard to develop my own testimony of Prop 8. This thread isn't going to be about Prop 8, only about my own struggles. Constantly, during the past two sacrament meetings, youth groups, etc. that I've been in, the only thing I've heard about Prop 8 is that everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom, and that members of the church who don't have a super-strong stance for Prop 8 shouldn't even be members at all, and should be excommunicated. I've kept my lack of strength on Prop 8 secret for obvious reasons (and I have not given any information about myself for these same reasons). It saddens me greatly when I come to sacrament meeting for feeling of friendship, love, and support, all people want to do is indirectly condemn and bash me.

So, my question is this: is there a loving, kind environment that I can go to in order to develop my testimony for Prop 8? Sacrament meeting used to be it, but it's not anymore. Church isn't anymore, even. I'm just very lost right now.

Just wanted to share an experience with you, it won't help much but my hope is that you won't feel so alone and disappointed. When I was 9 I started living with my foster parents in a really small town in Idaho (no offense to Idaho). The population was 99.9% LDS. They were some of the best people I have ever known and some of the worst. A lot of the parents didn't want a foster child contaminating their children. Of course kids quickly picked up on this attitude. I would go to church activities and be threatened (ex If you show up to XXX we will beat you up. On the bus I was slapped, hit, cursed, had my hair pulled out even had one kid try to light my pants on fire while I was wearing them. I got through it all and God helped me along the way. The one thing that i constantly heard from Heavenly Father in my mind was don't give up your blessings because of the actions of those who do not follow me.

My parents (they were much older) were angels from heaven and so were some of their friends. They taught me much of patience and forgivness. They taught me recognize that not all members are saints yet. I grew so much during that time and became so close to my heavenly father. Things eventually got somewhat better for me. I do remember my home was a refuge from the storm. It was like being in a place where I mattered and was safe and loved. I beleive my home was how church is supposed to be and how heaven will be one day. Just know you are not alone and your testimony will grow and become strong. Stay close to heavenly father and look for those that exemplify him. My experience was that most older members have enough life expierence to be more loving. Take gentle care and know you have brothers and sisters in the gospel thinking of you even if we aren't right there.:)

[Maya]

As you know I live in a country that already has homo marriages leagal. The law came through the back door and I doubt many care for the law at all. I just woke up one day and noticed that the law had been made. We were told in Curch to go vote aginst it, but my husband missed the vote as we were out of country.... but I doubt our 2 votes had made the diffeance.

I have not seen anything affecting us as LDS. However IF I could vote I would vote against such law as a principal. I know that the marriage is ment between a man and a woman.

If however the law becomes a fact there are a few things people can do. Luckily you in USA can have homeschool, which we here are not able to have unless very special circumstances. The other is to remember that we should live in the world but not out out of it (Not sure if I said that righ in English). That ia something we been told to do a lot here. WE are to teach the right things to our kids, so they know what is right however they have to remeber to make difference in "LDS things" and life.

My daughter got 0 points from a question of babtisement as she answered to it from our point of wiev. I think that was wrong as there was not a word about that it should have been the lutheran wiev. So many times our kida and we dont get to score if we say our meaning and not the general opinion. The two worlds will be even more apart and we need to be careful to regognise who we answer to.

I have touhgt my sons to walk out of the class IF the teaching they recive they think is wrong or makes them feel uncomfortable. My oldest has walked out from sex lesson. He said it was stupid and that he knew it all already as I had tought him. He has been arqueing with a homo teacher about something like the same sex mariage.

One of the biggest dangers to LDS I see is that soon we will be happy, if one of 4 kids of ours keep strong in church as they get so much funny ideas from school. My heart as an adoptee cries for all those kids that will be adopted by same sex married people. At teh same time I think that the only real marriage is the Temple mariage. The lawfull marriage will lose its meaning. At least I could go to the justice of peace direct from the field to get the papers and then dress me for Temple marriage. I could even think no sex before Temple marriage.

Anyway I am afraid we are fighting against the windmills and we need to consentrate on how to keep our faith clear and clean in spite of what the world will do in future. One thig that really makes me feel worried are the innocent kids in the middle of this. But when they grow up they can choose themselves where they want to stand, but that may cause extra pain as I am sure many of these couples are very good to kids, but their lifestyle just teaches the cild the wrong from the beginning.

We all have a free will so far we have been able to help kids choose the right, but now it may be that it wont be as easy as before. We just have to learn to grant the free will to our kids and everyone no matter how it hurts us inside. Yet we should not be indifferent!

[Elgama]

Follow the Prophet he knows the way goes the song and that is correct.

Whilst I do homeschool its for very different reasons - I think its a better education,

We have Family Home Evening, Family Prayer, Family Scripture Study, Family Counsel, Daddy/Daughter/Son dates and counsel time, Mummy time etc if do what we have been shown to do as parents our influence on our children should be greater - teaching the law of chastity starts before school anyway. These are the things that keep our children safe its entirely in our power.

And Personally if my daughter had been handed 0% and the question had not been aimed at a particular form of baptism I would be talking to the teacher - my Great Gran in 1919 was happy to go down and complain about teaching methods she did not approve of - I would do the same - I know most parents here make sure the school is well aware of our children's religious beliefs, and if problems arise like a 0% based on it they go and talk often the situation is reversed. Because schools and teachers are very aware our children usually are given the option of given the option to leave a class - I know I had similar arrangements at university. But then UK has always been pretty good at allowing other beliefs in school - often children from other backgrounds would be allowed to sit out of assembly (daily religious observance not often done on daily basis now), its common enough to be mentioned in comedy sketches.

-Charley

[hordak]

that I've been in, the only thing I've heard about Prop 8 is that everybody who doesn't by now support it fully is an evil person, responsible for the destruction of religious freedom,

I would suggest they take a government and history class.