Global Flood Discrepancies by FAIR

[Hemidakota]

Article Snippet: The primary reason for this global interpretation is the use of the word "earth." When modern readers see the word "earth," they envision the entire planetary sphere . However the concept of a spherical earth was not part of Jewish thought until the fourteenth or fifteenth century. The word "earth," as used in the Bible, simply refers to solid ground or land, as opposed to water.

Article link: Meridian Magazine :: Answers to Critics: Global Flood Discrepancies

[rameumptom]

It reminds me of the Ensign article about a decade ago, from an intellectual member who insisted that we had to believe in a global flood, otherwise all our beliefs fall down.

I keep an open mind, and know that much of the Old Testament is legends and myths that have been constructed to tell us tales concerning real heroes. These stories help us remember folklore, and key beliefs that unite us together. Are parts of the history real? Probably. We just don't know which part. Is Genesis 1 or 2 the story of the Creation? They differ, after all. And the story of the Flood is actually two separate stories that were melded together: 2 animals, or 7 clean and 2 unclean; dove and raven; 40 days and 13 months; etc. All of it is part and parcel of stories passed down, changed along the way,

Could it have been a global flood? I suppose. But I figure it probably wasn't. What is important is the symbolic baptism that the Earth undergoes, much like the baptism of fire the New World seemed to go through at the death of Christ. This great destruction, though, is now believed to have been limited to just a few hundred square miles. Yet it still symbolizes something greater.

[FunkyTown]

Regarding the flood, please read up traditional Jewish belief in cosmology. Here is one take on the flood by famed scholar Richard Elliott Friedman, interpreted through the scriptures:

Gensis 1: 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The universe is made in to two separate waters: The waters below(On earth) and the waters above(In the sky). Some might say this is proof of the bibles falsity. We know that the universe is a vacuum. What does the cold depths of space have to do with water?

1) They're both vast and unknowable.

2) They're both environments that are deadly to humans.

3) One is weightless in both environments.

The environments are so similar, we even call the vessel that traverses both a 'ship'.

Look at the story of Noah's Ark - There's a specific reason why they don't call it Noah's Ship. They call it an Ark for a reason: An Ark, like the Ark of the Covenant, is not a ship. The Jews did not build a boat to carry the Covenant with them through the desert, they built a box. It was a box built to carry things in.

The Great Flood is not a lot of rain - Everything that breathed air died. If it was merely a lot of rain, how did butterflies(Which can fly for more than 30 days straight) die? Or Dolphins? Or Penguins?

The Great Flood was the cataclysmic collapse of the atmosphere, where the waters above met the waters below. The atmosphere boiled away, sluicing off of the earth and removing its comfort and protection. It is the terrifying, absolute end of the world.

[Hemidakota]

If we did some sincere research on this subject, on the deluge [Noah], Nephi, and the Brother of Jared, you going to find some pretty interesting information that will unlocked this mysterious gem.

Was there a global flood? Before we answered that, we need to answer on Lord directing three men to bring provisions, animals, seeds, and so forth to the new world. Again, the question now is why would Noah store variety of life forms, knowing it was a local flood. Why would the Brother of Jared follow the same course before their departure to the new world. Then we come to Nephi, what did Nephi bring and why?

First thing we need to remember, the Godhead are not bound by physical laws of this planet. Neither do we know, the geological conditions of the earth prior to the flood. What we see today, may not existed before Noah's time. Also, neither do I believe the mount indicated was indeed the same mount where Noah landed. There is a strong indication it was southwest of that location near the border of Syria and Turkey. Neither do we know, how many families beside the canonized written accounts were told to the same throughout the world - later or earlier than the Brother of Jared?

Now, coming from the church in receiving such revelations concerning the flood, Elder John A. Widtsoe pointed out in the 'Evidences and Reconciliations', page 126-127:

Literal nature of Noah's Flood

The suggestion has been made that the flood filled every hollow and valley until the earth was a great sphere of water covering the highest mountain peaks twenty-six feet [12 metres] deep, Mount Ararat, seventeen thousand feet high, "upon the mountains" of which the ark rested, would according to this view have been completely under water. It is doubtful whether the water in the sky and all the oceans would suffice to cover the earth so completely.

The fact remains that the exact nature of the flood is not known. We set up assumptions, based upon our best knowledge, but can go no further. We should remember that when inspired writers deal with historical incidents they relate that which they have seen or that which may have been told them, unless indeed the past is opened to them by revelation.

The details in the story of the flood are undoubtedly drawn from the experiences of the writer. Under a downpour of rain, likened to the opening of the heavens, a destructive torrent twenty-six feet deep [12 metres] or deeper would easily be formed. The writer of Genesis made a faithful report of the facts known to him concerning the flood. In other localities the depth of the water might have been more or less. In fact, the details of the flood are not known to us.

I am not saying, any individual cannot receive there own personal revelation concerning this event but as a church, there is no more word. The word will come eventually for the church, but it will be that Prophet who will be the one to open the seal portion of the plates in relating to this hirectic event to the next generation.

[Traveler]

Article Snippet: The primary reason for this global interpretation is the use of the word "earth." When modern readers see the word "earth," they envision the entire planetary sphere . However the concept of a spherical earth was not part of Jewish thought until the fourteenth or fifteenth century. The word "earth," as used in the Bible, simply refers to solid ground or land, as opposed to water.

Article link: Meridian Magazine :: Answers to Critics: Global Flood Discrepancies

2 thousand years before Christ (almost 1000 years after the Biblical flood) there were ancient Egyptians that knew the earth was round. The ancient Mayan of the Classic era not only knew that the earth was round but they knew the curvature of the earth - something that most people today do not know nor do they knew how to go about figuring it out.

I am posting this just because so many people today think they are smarter than the ancients.

The Traveler

[rameumptom]

A few ancient Egyptians knew, but most people did not. Classic Maya civilization was post 700AD, so that doesn't affect scripture time tables.

And they checked their Rolexes, of course! Actually, Two points on earth, used to verify when the Sun came directly over those spots, using math, one can then determine the curvature of the Earth, and then the size of the Earth.

But while this is common knowledge in our day, it was not common knowledge among people who were primarily illiterate. And the early Israelites did not show themselves to be star gazers or mathematicians. They believed in the 4 corners of the Earth, as passed down by their Semitic ancestors from Ur of Chaldees.

[HoosierGuy]

Was there a global flood? Before we answered that, we need to answer on Lord directing three men to bring provisions, animals, seeds, and so forth to the new world. Again, the question now is why would Noah store variety of life forms, knowing it was a local flood. Why would the Brother of Jared follow the same course before their departure to the new world. Then we come to Nephi, what did Nephi bring and why?

First thing we need to remember, the Godhead are not bound by physical laws of this planet. .

Right. And I don’t care if science can prove there was a flood or not. Science was created by the powers of the Priesthood, by Heavenly Father thru Jesus Christ. The powers of the Priesthood created science, not the other way around.

Anyway, why couldn’t there be a total global flood? If it's possible for a meteor/asteroid to wipe out the whole earth and possible rip it apart, surely a global flood is possible. Doesn’t matter tho, the priesthood powers that we (LDS men) hold are the same that created science and weather in the first place. Ok, we don’t hold all those powers, and you all hold more than me (Aaronic), but we still hold portions of that power and science was/is/will be/are under the authority of the Priesthood like every thing else on this earth.

[Hemidakota]

HG, I do believe the deluge was a global flood and have no problems with it since we live on a dynamic world that is undergoing constant growth like a child. We simply don’t have any historical record revealing what was this pre-Noachian environment landscape. We can assume, as many do today, what we see today, was there yesterday. That is not the case as I stated in a previous thread. Even as this earth passes into the terrestrial glory [being moved out of the telestial solar system], it will return to that formidability Garden of Eden state as described in the Doctrine and Covenants. As I do believe not all worlds or may I add, only a handful ever makes it to the celestial level.

For me, there was never a meteor that torched the last earth but the earth convulsed itself in destroying life within the creational period of the animal kingdom. Conceivably as it may, was it due to the animals in not obeying the given commandments by the Godhead?

I concur with your assumption that the priesthood and its power is the founding the principle of true science and not the reverse. Like other things in this world, men will counterfeit truths for their gains. This today, predominates among many that I have encountered; searching for their place within history.

The only power we do not hold, creating and eternal progeny. Then there are progressional added powers for those who will move on to the next state.

[Hemidakota]

2 thousand years before Christ (almost 1000 years after the Biblical flood) there were ancient Egyptians that knew the earth was round. The ancient Mayan of the Classic era not only knew that the earth was round but they knew the curvature of the earth - something that most people today do not know nor do they knew how to go about figuring it out.

I am posting this just because so many people today think they are smarter than the ancients.

The Traveler

There are great truths within a non-canonized edition of the Apocrypha of Abraham.