Becoming gods

[Interested]

I am curious about this teaching of LDS....

I have heard of it being possible in Mormon theology to become a deity through following Mormon doctrine.

Does the Book of Mormon necessarily say this...? Or does it just mention being the monarchs/etcetera of our own worlds? I have heard that we would own our personal planets, but I have not yet read inthe Book of Mormon tht we would become gods.

[Hemidakota]

Been answered for more than 100-times. Joined the league of asking the same questions.

[Guest tomk]

I am curious about this teaching of LDS....

I have heard of it being possible in Mormon theology to become a deity through following Mormon doctrine.

Does the Book of Mormon necessarily say this...? Or does it just mention being the monarchs/etcetera of our own worlds? I have heard that we would own our personal planets, but I have not yet read inthe Book of Mormon tht we would become gods.

It is possible to become a Deity. That is what this is all about down here. To live by Christ's example, have Him power us in our weakness, and eventually receive our exaltation.

I don't know about "OWNING" our own "PERSONAL PLANETS" -- we will be far beyond such petty concepts such as ownership. We don't "OWN" anything. We won't care about "OWNING" anything. It won't be about that. All of our focus and concern will be on helping our children obtain the same blessings we have (exaltation). Everything we create will be towards that end; to bless our children. Just as Heavenly Father does with us now.

Moro. 7: 41

41 And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise.

Any time you see Atonement you can think "Exalation" - living with God and living the KIND of life God lives. For that is the reason for the Atonement...to bring us back into God's presence ... made spotless through the merits of Christ ... to dwell with God.

[Interested]

I don't buy it. :)

I can buy becoming supernatural beings greater than angels.... But I cannot ever even think about being a god. The Bible describes the Angels as being a little higher than than Mankind. If that is true, then I would suggest that according to Christian theology, as obscure a knowledge we have on a similar premise, that at the Ressurection we are given bodies and the power to be higher than we were once before. I find no Biblical evidence that we would ever become divinities.

[a-train]

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev. 3:21)

-a-train

[KristofferUmfrey]

I am curious about this teaching of LDS....

I have heard of it being possible in Mormon theology to become a deity through following Mormon doctrine.

Does the Book of Mormon necessarily say this...? Or does it just mention being the monarchs/etcetera of our own worlds? I have heard that we would own our personal planets, but I have not yet read inthe Book of Mormon tht we would become gods.

It is aboslutely not found in the Book of Mormon. Not one word, no mention, no hint.

[AnthonyB]

Interested,

I'm not LDS but I think the following might help you understand LDS better.

Firstly, LDS have an expanded set of scripture one of which includes an ever expanding book called Doctrines and Covenants. It is expanded by officially approved saying from the current prophet. (Bit like Catholic canon law) Since LDS believe in prophets that have an ongoing access to revelation from God, LDS don't feel as tied to have to prove every last belief from the scriptures as other Christians do. Prophets can announce new doctrines or reinterpret old ones in the light of new revelation from God. Traditional Christians (TC's) will think that if someone is saying something that doesn't match already received revelations that they are false prophet. LDS will point out that is what Jesus and the apostles did. TC's will respond but that is our Lord and his chosen apostles. LDS will say Jesus has appointed new apostles of equal authority to the old ones. (Etc......) There are scriptures that can be used to hint at LDS beliefs but the fullness of their beliefs simply isn't contained within the Bible (OT and NT). TC's are bound to base beliefs on the Bible, LDS expand/supplant doctrines with new revelations from their prophets.

If your hoping to refute LDS doctrine using biblical sources, your probably in for a very frustating and utlimately immensely un-rewarding time for all involved.

Secondly LDS don't believe that their exaltation will put them above God, just as your father remains your father as you grow to adulthood and it is you that grows up to hopefully (if you Father has set a good example) take on the best qualities of your father. So LDS believe God will always be their God but that people can grow into becoming like God and take on His best qualities, one of which is the loving creation of children with the ability if they choose wisely to grow into maturity to become like Him.

I hope you enoy your time on this forum. I have found it really interesting to try and understand a biblical belief scheme that is quite divergent from the majority opinion.

(Maybe the mods can create a list of premade links to the best responses about common questions and when people join the forum they can browse that list.)

Edited November 18, 2008 by AnthonyB

[japacific]

That's the thing. The LDS believe that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel, but it doesn't mention a single thing about it. I assume that means that that principle was not taught to any of the Nephites in the book.

I'm sure you have been asked this before at some stage, but how do Mormons justify what Gordon Hinckley said when asked about the topic.

Q. Don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

Hinckley:

I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about.

And again on whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man,

"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it.'

[AnthonyB]

japacific,

My guess as a non-LDS, is that the fullness of the gospel includes the belief that God has ordained prophets/apostles to have a role of continually revealing His truth. So the questions is does the BoM reveal the need for continued revelation? (Although it could be argued the NT does. The apostles only outreached to Jews, Samartians and Jewish proselytes until Peter received the vision to accept gentiles into the church. It was this vision and the receiving of the Holy Spirit that led to a change in church behaviour in Acts not the OT or the sayings of Jesus.)

As for the God was a man thing. I think the idea of our exaltation is more clearly defined in LDS thinking. The ideas about God having undergone exaltation as well is more of a backward inference (from the process LDS hope to acheive exaltation through) and not as well supported/defined.

Although since from what I understand it is only God the Father who may have undergone the entire exaltation steps that LDS believe we should be following since neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit were exalted beings (ie having followed the LDS path to exaltation) when they as part of the Godhead created our world etc. If both the Son and Spirit were eternal God without following the exaltation process LDS believe in, I don't quite see the need to insist the Father must of as well.

Sometimes there appears quite a disconnect between the carefully nuanced statements of LDS leaders and the "folk" beliefs of many LDS.

Edited November 18, 2008 by AnthonyB
spelling

[japacific]

Thanks Anthony. That was a big problem for me. I really enjoyed studying books like D&C and The Pearl of Great Price while referring to study guides for all the really far-out stuff I learned from reading them. The fringe doctrines. There's so much confusion about what is actually doctrine and what was just prophets and apostles 'speaking as men'.

I would just love it if President Monson, who is God's best friend here on the earth, cleared up what is true and what is false in Mormon doctrine, instead of sharing his stories of how he helps old widows. That would be something else.

[AnthonyB]

The idea of a prophet ordained of God to reveal his truth and sort out the confusion of doctrines is really attractive. I have one prophecy spoken to me, where God really hit the nail on the head. (for me personally) The guy who God spoke through was a once only guest speaker (he had come from England) at a meeting I had never been to before and knew none except two friends who equally had never been at the meeting before. He singled me out and I was the only one to receive a direct prophetic word. (I still have the tape)

It would be great to have that sort of thing to sort out the church as a whole. When reading about the LDS prophets/apostles I can't help think that the power went to their heads (esp IMHO Young, I don't want to start "another" thread about polygamy and I can even see it could be of real value at times. (A lot of single female believers bereft of suitable husbands and often forced to either pick unsuitable husbands from within the church or unbelievers.) However they seemed to collect wives like Tiger Woods does trophies!). So maybe that is why God hasn't in my opinion given us a continued authoratative prophetic/apostolic ministry.

Edited November 18, 2008 by AnthonyB

[Dr T]

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev. 3:21) -a-train

A-Train, to whom was that referring? To whom was it referencing? Jesus’ remark here shows that we do not have to compromise but can actually overcome-even those from Laodicea. What do they/we overcome? It is the indifference, compromise and depending on self and we are to overcome. Something I’m still learning. Something I see as needed in my life cause I cannot do it on my own. See, the cool thing about that passage is seeing the worst of the seven churches can even repent and conquer. See, I see it as conquering though Christ! All glory and honor to HIM!

[Hemidakota]

I don't buy it. :)

I can buy becoming supernatural beings greater than angels.... But I cannot ever even think about being a god. The Bible describes the Angels as being a little higher than than Mankind. If that is true, then I would suggest that according to Christian theology, as obscure a knowledge we have on a similar premise, that at the Ressurection we are given bodies and the power to be higher than we were once before. I find no Biblical evidence that we would ever become divinities.

Good morning. This is why I left the above comment; knowing the return answer. Since others had reply, adding here; then you won't have a problem of not living in the present of GOD or others that will share with the Savior of what is the eternal reward. You will be content in something that will bring joy and happiness to your spirit.

Now, seeing your reply, it is not matter of someone else’s theology or whims of man made doctrine but a matter of sincere pray in asking for the correct truth. You know, this is what I find quite amazing in my latter years with all religions, including those in the LDS faith, will not spend the time in searching the truth for themselves but rather rely on others for their beliefs. No offense. Just a seen pattern.

Tom, not even our own FATHER is the owner of creation. We are lessee of ‘what was’ to create 'what is'.

[a-train]

A-Train, to whom was that referring? To whom was it referencing? Jesus’ remark here shows that we do not have to compromise but can actually overcome-even those from Laodicea. What do they/we overcome? It is the indifference, compromise and depending on self and we are to overcome. Something I’m still learning. Something I see as needed in my life cause I cannot do it on my own. See, the cool thing about that passage is seeing the worst of the seven churches can even repent and conquer. See, I see it as conquering though Christ! All glory and honor to HIM!

We are entrusted and duty bound with the salvation of ourselves on this earth. While salvation is only possible through Jesus, we are not compelled in it, but we must accept it and take it up. Further, we are entrusted and duty bound to administer the gospel message to others including and especially our children whom we have particular responsibility toward.

Will these obligations be diminished or even vanish as we approach the throne of God? When we overcome and are seated in His throne, will we not have any work to perform? What does it mean to sit in God's throne with Him? Is it not to take up our cross and follow Him? Is it not the work of fishers of men and of talents turned over to the exchangers? Will we not be engaged in the Eternal Work of God?

What is the reward for those whose talents are expanded?

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (Matthew 25:34)

A kingdom? A throne?

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4)

Yes, those that take up the work of the ministry will receive a crown and a throne just as Jesus promised. And how is it that they rule? Do they make themselves the recipient of service? Lords over the people as the princes of the world?

Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lord over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. (1 Peter 5:2-4)

Yes, a crown of glory. But not by constraining others as a worldly chief, but by service.

Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:25-28)

So what then is the work of the princes of God who sit upon heavenly thrones crowned in His glory? What does it mean to sit with Christ in His throne even as he also overcame and is set in His throne with His Father? It means to be the servant of all.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:16-18)

We know very little of the great work we will perform in the Presence of God if we are among those who overcome through the Blood of the Lamb and partake of the inheritance prepared for us. But there can be no doubt that there is indeed a promised kingdom and a throne and an eternal work of service associated thereto.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (Rev. 21:7)

-a-train Edited November 18, 2008 by a-train

[Traveler]

I am curious about this teaching of LDS....

I have heard of it being possible in Mormon theology to become a deity through following Mormon doctrine.

Does the Book of Mormon necessarily say this...? Or does it just mention being the monarchs/etcetera of our own worlds? I have heard that we would own our personal planets, but I have not yet read inthe Book of Mormon tht we would become gods.

It depends on what you define as a g-d. If being "one" with G-d is a being like G-d then yes - LDS believe that you can become like G-d. Is there anything you understand about G-d that you do not believe that man should include in the "oneness" with G-d that Chrstinas are encouraged to seek in the Holy Scriptures?

The Traveler

[Interested]

As an Orthodox Evenagelical I believe n one can be as virtueous or holy as God. I do read that we would have the "power' or authority of God... but not his supernatural might or wisdom. No where have I ever found in the scriptures that we would become deities.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

I don't buy it. :)

I can buy becoming supernatural beings greater than angels.... But I cannot ever even think about being a god. The Bible describes the Angels as being a little higher than than Mankind. If that is true, then I would suggest that according to Christian theology, as obscure a knowledge we have on a similar premise, that at the Ressurection we are given bodies and the power to be higher than we were once before. I find no Biblical evidence that we would ever become divinities.

Romans 8: 17

[Interested]

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

What this? :/

This only says we get to sit on the Throne with him.

[Nappaljarri]

So maybe from your human perspective of "King, or God" you assume that a God will not allow his children to sit next to him or be equal to him. In our religion, we believe that for us to be a god and to be like God, does not take away from his Godliness but adds to his glory. If none of his children became like him (which would be impossible since he had one perfect son to carry on the family business) then in the definition of what we believe God to be, he would not be a God. God's glory is intelligence this reference comes from our latterday scripture, if anyone can help with bible quotes, go ahead... Doctrine and Covenants 93 (or his glory comes from his offspring becoming as he is). That is our belief. Read that whole section, if you will, it is my favourite section of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Nappaljarri

[Nappaljarri]

reference above... vs 36 is the verse that describes the Glory of God, but to understand it better, as I said, read the whole section.

[Interested]

I am trying to be unargumentative as I can...:)

I'm just saying you know.... To me, Jesus is the same God as the Father.

God the Father probably wouldn't say to the Son "I am Better Than You"

But God might say to the son "My Authority is higher than yours."

Ronald Reagan probably wouldn't think he was better than a homeless man, but he definitely has higher authority.

[Nappaljarri]

No I didn't take your post as argumentative.... I understand where you are coming from. It's just different perspectives. I hope my posts don't sound that way either, when I am typing them, that is not the feeling I am typing with.

[Interested]

Oh o.k. :) Yeah. I just decided to blurt that out.

[a-train]

For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: (Deut. 10:17)

Who are the gods that the LORD God is God of?

-a-train

[Interested]

Might not a spiritual being... any supernatural being be regarded as a god when they may in fact be not?