Tithing...

[Mute]

How do you apply the same principle to fasting? The church can help out those who pay tithing but need financial aid. You can't have someone who should not fast doing so because there is no way to rectify the situation.

The church would not want anyone to put their or other peoples health at risk.

While the Lord has told us to pay tithing I was allowed to join the church refusing to pay it. I didn't pay it for three years until I finally had the understanding of how it worked.

People are not excommunicated if they stop tithing, nor does a Bishop sit there with a calculator and audit peoples payments.

I pay it because it benefits my self and my family. The money I give back to the Lord goes to support the church, to pay for buildings, to help with disaster relief, to help provide funds beyond fast offerings to those in need, to help those who can not help themselves, to fund church programs in our ward and worldwide. My small contribution multiplies many times and does far more good then I ever could with five times my income to help others out.

Let me explan to you why I can apply this principle to both situations. In one situation you have God telling someone they need to pay tithing even if they don't have the money. In another situation you have God telling people to fast but only if they're healthy. That doesn't make sense to me. Why not say that the person should only pay tithing if they're healthy financially? Now if God is indeed the one that gives them the money to fix their situation with the tithing, then would it not make sense for him to do the same exact thing with the fasting? I'm saying the rules are changed in the two situations. That to me is a double standard.

If someone doesn't have enough money to pay tithing, what happens? From what you're telling me, the church gives them the money so they can give it back to the church. Then the church considers them a full tithe payer. In reality, the person hasn't actually lost anything at all. It was only to teach them the principle of paying tithing. So how is this any different than just not paying tithing to begin with and saying you would if you could?

Have you ever seen the movie Lilo and Stitch? The little girl wants to buy a puppy (Stitch). She doesn't have the 1 dollar it takes to buy Stitch. So what happens? The older sister gives her the 1 dollar to pay for the puppy. The little girl just wanted to say she is the one that bought it. So the older sister provided a way for her to do so. You're telling me that God provides a way for people to complete a commandment in one situation but in another he says they don't have to or that he can't.

[joheri]

The whole point with tithing is to prepare us to live the law of consecration properly. Paying off of gross requires no thinking, alas no training.

If you have to determine what is sufficient for your needs and what is more than you need you will be trained well before we will be required to live the law of consecration fully.

There is a tendency amongst the children of God to wish for detailed commandments, leaving out our own thinking. We are here on earth to learn more than just obedience.

IMO

[jennvan]

Can you post a reference to the law of tithing preparing us to live the law of consecration? Thanks!

[joheri]

Can you post a reference to the law of tithing preparing us to live the law of consecration? Thanks!

Elder Dallin H Oaks, “Tithing: A Test of Faith with Eternal Blessings,” Ensign, Nov 2002, 26

The law of tithing prepares us to live the higher law of consecration..

Dallin H. Oaks, “Tithing,” Ensign, May 1994, 33

Tithe paying is evidence that we accept the law of sacrifice. It also prepares us for the law of consecration and the other higher laws of the celestial kingdom.

I thought this was a common knowledge in the Church. This is what I have been told all the way.

[Wingnut]

Even those who cannot complete a full fast are still encouraged to fast in other ways: one meal if they can, or from sweets, or from something else that will be a sacrifice for them.

[MarginOfError]

The whole point with tithing is to prepare us to live the law of consecration properly. Paying off of gross requires no thinking, alas no training.

If you have to determine what is sufficient for your needs and what is more than you need you will be trained well before we will be required to live the law of consecration fully.

There is a tendency amongst the children of God to wish for detailed commandments, leaving out our own thinking. We are here on earth to learn more than just obedience.

IMO

Those who have made temple covenants through the Endowment are under covenant to live the law of consecration. So while I actually agree with your point, I think you may have applied it a little generally.

[joheri]

Maybe you have a point MOE, but even though we have covenanted to live the law of consecration the law has yet to be systematized. IMO

[Just_A_Guy]

Edit: I'll strike my former post, and just come straight to my point.

I think we can mostly agree that the decision of whether we pay 10% on our gross, on our net, or on our net minus living expenses, is a personal one to be made between the payer or the Lord.

I guess my beef is, when someone is going to a) hint that the entire Church is in apostasy for living the law of tithing "wrong", and b) suggest that it is more righteous to pay less because at least the person paying less is determining their own surplus (which the revocation of the United Order strongly suggests that the Church is generally not ready to do righteously at this point in time)--well, that just rubs me wrong.

Again--do whatever the Spirit tells you to do; but please don't then come onto this forum and invoke questionable logic to imply that you're more righteous than those who pay on their gross.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[mnn727]

I think we can mostly agree that the decision of whether we pay 10% on our gross, on our net, or on our net minus living expenses, is a personal one to be made between the payer or the Lord.

Tithing amounts are always between the Lord and the Payer, but one thing to remember, it is possible to get help with groceries and basic living expenses from the Bishop if you can not meet your expenses. This is what Fast Offerings are used for.

Also the Church has Employment Centers for those looking for jobs- (either out of work or looking to upgrade) that are offered free of charge, they can help with; resumes', interview training, job searches, etc.

When you are struggling to make ends meet, you can either cut expenses or get more income -- sounds like you've already cut expenses, may be time to find a better paying job - the Employment Center can help you.

Edited November 8, 2010 by mnn727