The biggest robbery of the century

[Mahdi]

In the name of God

Look at this picture:





The green points are the places in which palestinians lived.During about 50 years,you now see the disaster!We can name this event "the biggest robbery of the century".

I don't know how do you think about palestine and Israel .Maybe Israel for you are Holy troop that has come from Jesus(Peace be upon Him)! Or you think that they must live in the Holy land or...
but Just look at what todays and especially nowadays happen in palestine!
Many children are bieng killed.Their weapons are small stones but what about Israeli troops?They fight with aircrafts and tanks,modern weapons.
(How equal war!!!)
I am sure that who kills innocents has not from Jesus Christ.because He has teached people to love each other not to kill!

[BenRaines]

Please do not be confused. Israelis, Jews, do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. They believe he was a prophet like Abraham and Moses but only that. They do not consider themselves Christian.

For thousands of years Palestinians and Jews lived side by side. It is only since the country of Israel was formed that the wars in the area have escalated.

I love the quote of Golda Meir. I paraphrase "The killings will end when they love their children more than they hate us".

Because Hamas is ineffective in firing their missles at Israel does not make the threat any less. What was it, over 200 rockets and mortars fired at Israel in the last couple weeks and they can't hit anything so the Israelis are the bad guys because they have more effective weapons?

Hamas needs to learn to not bring a rock to a gun fight.

Ben Raines

Ben Raines

[KristofferUmfrey]

In the name of God

Look at this picture:

The green points are the places in which palestinians lived.During about 50 years,you now see the disaster!We can name this event "the biggest robbery of the century".

I don't know how do you think about palestine and Israel .Maybe Israel for you are Holy troop that has come from Jesus(Peace be upon Him)! Or you think that they must live in the Holy land or...

but Just look at what todays and especially nowadays happen in palestine!

Many children are bieng killed.Their weapons are small stones but what about Israeli troops?They fight with aircrafts and tanks,modern weapons.

(How equal war!!!)

I am sure that who kills innocents has not from Jesus Christ.because He has teached people to love each other not to kill!

Jordan is the Palestinian homeland.

Don't give me the "sticks and stones" excuse. Ever heard of suicide bombers? What about all the rockets launched into Israel by Palestinians before the air strike?

Israel has been more then patient, most other governments would have completely destroyed the Palestinian area by now.

Edited December 28, 2008 by KristofferUmfrey

[Palerider]

I agree with you they have been very very patient....

[Moksha]

Israel has been more then patient, most other governments would have completely destroyed the Palestinian area by now.

Looks like Palestine has been obliterated and the Palestinian area is dwindling. Wonder if that old proverb about reaping what you sow may ever happen in this case?

Jordan, BTW is where many Palestinian refugees fled to.

[NeuroTypical]

We can name this event "the biggest robbery of the century".

No offense Mahdi, but I mean really - you're profile and posting history say you're a muslim from Iran. Forgive me if I'm not surprised at your opinion of Israel.

Their weapons are small stones but what about Israeli troops?

Ugh - you've got some really crappy sources of news there, Mahdi. Small stones? Is that why every Israeli home recently built comes with it's own bomb shelter? Is that why the Israeli media is always giving instructions on what to do when you hear the air raid siren? (If your home isn't protected, they recommend going into the stairwell and trying to go down at least one story. If you can't get to the stairwell in time, lie down on the floor on the side facing away from Gaza. If you're in your car, stop immediately and look for cover.)

Small stones? Forgive me, but that statement cost you every single drop of credibility with me on the issue. Here's an exerpt from a recent letter I got from someone in Israel:

On Christmas day alone, over 80 rockets and 20 mortars landed in southern Israel . Several landed on buildings and houses, including one that landed on a 12-year-old girl's bed. Luckily she had just stepped out of her room. We know that Hamas still has thousands of rockets left in their arsenal. They could easily fire 100 a day for several weeks. In fact, Israeli security forces are now estimating that we're going to get 200-300 rockets a day for the next little while.

Small stones my flabby white Christian behind. Mahdi, get yourself a new source of information. Right now, you're little more than a mouthpiece of propaganda.

What was it, over 200 rockets and mortars fired at Israel in the last couple weeks and they can't hit anything so the Israelis are the bad guys because they have more effective weapons?

Yeah, something like that. Oh wait, Hamas operates out of schools and residential areas on purpose - that way, Israel is guaranteed bad press when they fight back.

LM

Edited December 29, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Mahdi]

Imagine that a robber has come in your hose and is stealing your propetrties.then what do you do?do you laugh at him ?or shake hand with him?

surely you will use your gun!isn't it current?

and you,loudmouth,you said that that you are not surprised of this way of thinking because you know that I am from Iran.

yes,I am Iranian,but truth is truth.it is not important where you have found it!it is important that you have found the truth.

[Palerider]

I don't mind a debate here but if this thread gets ugly.....I will close it....

[BenRaines]

Mahdi, lets get back to the original post. What does Israel attacking the Gaza strip have to do with Christians?

Ben Raines

[a-train]

Fact: There were Jewish terrorists murdering to promote the creation of the state of Israel. After the creation of the state, they were awarded medals and honors. Thus the argument that terrorism against the state of Israel came completely unprovoked to a people never having so engaged in such barbarism is not on good footing.

For Mormon readers, it will interest you to know that one of the Zionist terror squads was known as LEHI.

What is to be done? That is the question. We are now crossing a generation gap. Most of us were not alive for the creation of the state of Israel. Who has a say? The people living there. Let the governments of the world get out of the conflict and it will deflate.

-a-train

[Mahdi]

I apologize the moderator if it is against of the rule but I want him to let us to kindle the truth!

thanks

[Palerider]

I apologize the moderator if it is against of the rule but I want him to let us to kindle the truth!

thanks

I took the pics away.....anytime there is war....there are always woman and children killed...regardless of what side you are on...

[NeuroTypical]

Imagine that a robber has come in your hose and is stealing your propetrties.then what do you do?do you laugh at him ?or shake hand with him?

surely you will use your gun!isn't it current?

I'm glad to hear you admitting your previous blatant falsehood about small stones. Would you please kindly renounce any further spreading of such misleading nonsense?

yes,I am Iranian,but truth is truth.it is not important where you have found it!it is important that you have found the truth.

So address the substance of my post then. You are so big on truth, please speak to the following truths:

* When an innocent Palestinian dies at Israeli hands, it is because Israels plan to limit collateral damage failed.

* When an innocent Israeli dies at Hamas' hands, it is because Hamas succeded in their plan to kill Israeli civilians, pity they couldn't have killed more.

LM

[a-train]

* When an innocent Palestinian dies at Israeli hands, it is because Israels plan to limit collateral damage failed.

* When an innocent Israeli dies at Hamas' hands, it is because Hamas succeded in their plan to kill Israeli civilians, pity they couldn't have killed more.

These statements cannot be proven and they serve only to obscure the issue. The U.S. entanglement in this issue serves only to globalize a border dispute not local to us.

-a-train

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, one good trick to avoid reality, is to impose some sort of artificial burden of proof before allowing in the unpleasantness. "Cannot be proven" - Interesting term - bringing to mind impartial juries, a decent system of justice, the rule of law.

Well, this is the realm of public opinion, not a court of law. And at the end of the day, if you take a thousand first-hand eye witness accounts of Palestinians doing harm to Israelis, and a thousand first-hand eye-witness accounts of Israelis doing harm to Palestinians, you'll find a very clear cut moral difference. One side tries to kill innocent civilians - as many as possible. The other side tries to kill only bad guys, and tries to limit innocent death. The first side makes that as difficult as possible, basing operations amongst civilians, surrounding themselves with children on purpose.

Regardless of what we think "the issue" actually is, these facts are important and relevant.

LM

[a-train]

So if we are not concerned with proof, then we can just as well assume that Israeli bombings of residential housing is of the same motive as those of Palestinian bombings of Israeli residential housing.

-a-train

Edited December 29, 2008 by a-train

[checkerboy]

All I have to do is look at which side the "impartial" media supports and then I know the truth. Obviously there is an agenda present to make Israel look bad. Granted there are bad guys on both sides but whether you agree or not Israel is a nation and has every right to defend itself.

[Mahdi]

Fact: There were Jewish terrorists murdering to promote the creation of the state of Israel. After the creation of the state, they were awarded medals and honors

I wonder how do you know this?most media nets,don't show what Israeli troops have done or are doing but if Hamas do anything,they shout it!

For example did you know that during these three days,about 300 civilians were killed in Gaza? and among them there were 4 sister that their ages were under 10 years!and many kids,... .

Thus the argument that terrorism against the state of Israel came completely unprovoked to a people never having so engaged in such barbarism is not on good footing.

yes,It is a question for me that whether the people who weren't on those days in Israeli troops(for example the youngs of Israel) ,is it correct to commit them or not!

For Mormon readers, it will interest you to know that one of the Zionist terror squads was known as LEHI.

I would be happy to know more about it!who was LEHI?

Fact:I'm glad to hear you admitting your previous blatant falsehood about small stones. Would you please kindly renounce any further spreading of such misleading nonsense?

About stones,I know that Hamas has rockets.In fact any government have deffensive weapons and Hamas is governing the palestine.Maybe you has forgotten that the people of Palestine voted to them?So it is not strange that Hamas has rockets but by stones I mean that Israel now is killing the civilians not Hamas or,... and the people just have stones to defense from the Israeli weapons!

All I have to do is look at which side the "impartial" media supports and then I know the truth.

I Admire you by this way of thinking!I think in each country media nets try to impose what they believe not what the truth is!

anytime there is war ,there are always woman and children killed...regardless of what side you are on... .

yes,you are correct but there is a question:

Can't they not attack on civilians?or bombing the houses or ...

I think nowadays the weapons are so precise that you can hit any point that you want so they can do it!

Edited December 29, 2008 by Mahdi

[Palerider]

Am I under the impression that Hamas does not kill civilians

[a-train]

Check the Wikipedia article on the LEHI gang:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

Also see:

Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These terrorist groups existed during WWII. They DID kill and bomb innocent people, including many Jews. They DID advocate an Israeli state extending to "the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18)" And they DID advocate the replacement of non-Jews with Jews saying: "Solve the problem of alien population [i.e. the Arab inhabitants of Palestine] by exchange of population."

-a-train

[NeuroTypical]

Am I under the impression that Hamas does not kill civilians

A quick google and wikipedia search brings us the following:

The Jerusalem Post - Mashaal offers to stop civilian attacks

Hamas has offered Israel a deal in which both sides would refrain from attacking civilian targets, the group's Damascus-based leader Khaled Mashaal said.

Wikipedia - List of Hamas Suicide attacks

Sounds like you may wish to re-think that impression.

LM

[Palerider]

A quick google and wikipedia search brings us the following:

The Jerusalem Post - Mashaal offers to stop civilian attacks

Wikipedia - List of Hamas Suicide attacks

Sounds like you may wish to re-think that impression.

LM

that blurb from me is directed at the author of this thread....they seem to think all the bad is only one sided in my opinion...thanks for your info....:)

[Moksha]

Wonder how our paramilitary militias, current compound dwellers and diehard NRA members would respond if invaders had entered our country and eliminated our military and were continually enlarging their captured territory?

Suppose they would go in for guerrilla warfare and "terrorist attacks"? Would they then be the bad guys?

[NeuroTypical]

Well, I'm not in a paramilitary militia, and I don't belong to the NRA, but my citi-fied urban cube dwelling cousin has called our homestead a "compound", so perhaps I'm qualified to answer.

If invaders entered my country and took over, I would fight them. But I would not target civilians. I would not shout "Allahu Akbar" when watching my missile hit an apartment building full of families. I would not grab a nearby mentally disabled person, strap a bomb vest on them, and send them into a crowded marketplace. And most importantly, I would not set up my military command in the middle of a bunch of children.

See Mosksha, good guys don't do anything like that. Hamas does all those things on a regular basis. They are the bad guys. Can you really not see that? Can you truly make it to 'senior member' on an LDS message board, racking up 650 thanks, and not see the huge moral divide between the Hamas organization and a legitimate freedom-fighting organization?

Yeah, you can argue the side of the Palestinians. You can feel their pain, and argue the case that Israel is the agressor. But from where I'm standing, these Hamas' tactics are unsupportable and undefendable by anyone who considers themselves good and moral. If you disagree, please show me how you can support and defend:

* Targeting innocent civilians and trying to kill them.

* Surrounding your military operations with children.

* Using mentally disabled or drugged people to run suicide bombing missions.

LM

Edited December 31, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[NeuroTypical]

In other news, the Israeli Defense Force recently created a You Tube page.

Youtube - IDF Spokesperson's Unit

A bunch of ticked-off people have been trying to get YouTube to remove the videos, but so far, YouTube is letting them stay.

LM