Pre-Existence and Earth Life

[FlaviusHambonius]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have alway's thought that LDS belief is that we will be judged by our pre-existence and our mortal life here on earth in the final judgment.

Since we existed as intelligence then progressed to spirit children then came to earth, we have been taught that we were valient and chose to side with Christ in the plan of salvation.

If eons of time transpired up to the time of this coming to earth and then time as we know it called earth life is but a blip on the radar screen of the eternities--will our judgement be more on our earth life because we chose that path of probation or agency ie. faith in Christ as our reedemer, living the commandments, repentence etc.

How much bearing will our pre-existence have on our final judgement? Especially for people that have fallen away from the church, whether temporarally or permanent.

People that have not been to the Temple, much less sealed in the Temple etc.

Possibly not as much bearing on our pre-existence because possibly not as much opposition?

Oh yes, then there's that little obstacle called the veil LOL.

Any thought's or material someone can refer me to in thought of pre-existence and mortal earth life combining together in final judgement?

[WillowTheWhisp]

I thought judgement only related to this life on earth where we live without being able to see beyond the veil.

[Guest tomk]

Since we cannot remember it right now - that's hard to say.

I would say - focus on your relationship with Christ. Follow His counsel. These things will all work-out. He is not out to condemn us, but to save us. So anything that comes to bear in the Judgement day will fall on the side of mercy.

[Justice]

It's my understanding that our reward for keeping our first estate is being given a body and the knowledge of good and evil. We see the punishment for not keeping the first estate as well.

The reward for keeping our second estate is to use those 2 rewards to their fullest potential for eternity. The punishement will be the same as for the first estate, but we will still keep our first 2 rewards.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Justice

[Traveler]

I believe that it is the nature of G-d to save all possible candidates and to extend his love, compassion and mercy to everyone. With this in mind, by time we get to what is called the “final judgment” only those that have decided with full knowledge and understanding what they are doing; deciding not to be with G-d in eternities will find no place with G-d.

I believe the judgment of G-d will include Jesus Christ as our advocate that will not only plead for mercy in our behalf but will also assist and council us to select the opportunity to live the responsibility of freedom with G-d. Likewise Satan will entice all he can to let him take care of everything for us by living under his control.

One reason I am attracted to the LDS faith is the teaching that all – especially those that die in ignorance of truth are just as loved and cared about by G-d and will not be cast off as though he does not care.

I would be most interested in why anyone of any faith finds disfavor in such a belief and prefers a G-d of unexplainable favors and unjust discrimination against the unknowing.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have always thought that LDS belief is that we will be judged by our pre-existence and our mortal life here on earth in the final judgment.

Since we existed as intelligence then progressed to spirit children then came to earth, we have been taught that we were valiant and chose to side with Christ in the plan of salvation.

If eons of time transpired up to the time of this coming to earth and then time as we know it called earth life is but a blip on the radar screen of the eternities--will our judgment be more on our earth life because we chose that path of probation or agency ie. faith in Christ as our reedemer, living the commandments, repentance etc.

How much bearing will our pre-existence have on our final judgment? Especially for people that have fallen away from the church, whether temporally or permanent.

People that have not been to the Temple, much less sealed in the Temple etc.

Possibly not as much bearing on our pre-existence because possibly not as much opposition?

Oh yes, then there's that little obstacle called the veil LOL.

Any thought's or material someone can refer me to in thought of pre-existence and mortal earth life combining together in final judgement?

If you were valiant in the pre-mortal life, you will have greater opportunities in this life at your disposal. Let me first stop and caution the reader here, we are still at the will of GOD in sending us down at prescribed earthly events for wiser purposes. I will have to add, not all in the pre-mortal life were 100-percent valiant in following GOD’s will. Yes, they are still allowed to inherit a mortal body but not enough to warrant being casted out. Cain is a great example of this situation. It stills come down to agency and choices here as Joseph declared in the latter portion of the D&C, which now escapes me at the moment, how we can take an advantage in this life to apply ourselves and be further along prior to the resurrection. Even in D&C 58:2, on what happens if we remain faithful through trials of fire per say;

For verily I say unto you, blessed is he that keepeth my commandments, whether in life or in death; and he that is faithful in tribulation, the reward of the same is greater in the kingdom of heaven.

What we achieve now as to the level of truth received in this life, can be a blessing or a cursing. As stated in D&C 82:3

For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

Right now is the time to be concerned over and not the pre-mortal life. We can make a difference before GOD in proving to HIM, we can achieve our mortal goals and be HIS valiant sons here on the earth.

[tubaloth]

orrect me if I am wrong, but I have alway's thought that LDS belief is that we will be judged by our pre-existence and our mortal life here on earth in the final judgment.

I wouldn’t say that is wrong, but not completely correct.

We were “born” in pre-mortal life, we were taught the gospel (in some version) and we know that we could “exercise righteousness and faith” in some degree. Those that followed the Light of the Gospel grew in intelligence those that didn’t, didn’t grow as much.

Then came the end of our first estate. Based of our what we did in the pre-mortal life, carried over to this life. We know the Pre-mortal life determined WHEN we would come to this earth, and also which of the 12 tribes we would be a part of.

When we started this earth life we kind of started the second phase of the test.

If eons of time transpired up to the time of this coming to earth and then time as we know it called earth life is but a blip on the radar screen of the eternities--will our judgement be more on our earth life because we chose that path of probation or agency ie. faith in Christ as our reedemer, living the commandments, repentence etc.

Its more like you already know you pasted at least some part of the first test. Now lets see if you can pass the second part of the test. Our Final Judgment well be more on how we acted on this earth (as a spirit and body together), this is more the final exam.

How much bearing will our pre-existence have on our final judgement? Especially for people that have fallen away from the church, whether temporarally or permanent.

We each are judged according to the light and knowledge we had. Those that were blessed more in this life well be judged harsher because we had greater understanding.

[deseretgov]

Our Final Judgement will not be based on our pre-mortal acivities. We have already been judged for those. If you are living on the earth then you passed that judgement. If you are a spirit working for satan and don't have a physical body then you didn't pass.

Christ is there to work for a positive judgement on our behalf. Kind of like a defense lawyer(crude analogy). God the Father must pass a judgement that will satisfy justice. Only through Christ can we have mercy.

I personally believe(or maybe hope) that most judgements will be generous. I think we will our worst judge. I mean how many of us believe we will go to the celestial kingdom. I mean seriously deep down. I hope to go to the celestial kingdom. I hope my faults can be overlooked through mercy. But do I honestly believe that I'll go to the celestial kingdom....I don't know.

[georgia2]

the reward for making the right decision (choosing Christ's plan) was to be given an opportunity to come to earth with a mortal body and to be tested in a telestial world where there is an opposite in all things, good and evil. And as we all passed that test, we also will all be given an immortal body in the resurrection. Which resurrection we will come forth, the first or second, will depend on which path we have followed here. Someone has already stated that we were not all the same level of determination in following not only Christ, but also the entire plan of salvation. Just like armies here on earth, there are generals and then there are foot soldiers. During the pre-mortal existence and our desire and valiancy in the war in heaven, we showed to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ where we were on that scale. This is how the decisions were made to when we would come to earth, where we would be born, what family and family situations we would be born into, what talents and opportunities we would have here.

Those that were more valiant are the ones that are more likely to hear the voice of the Lord and feel those stirrings in their heart when they learn of the Gospel. Our spirits and temperaments do not, have not changed since we came to earth. WE are still the same. This does not mean that stronger spirits are just born in to ideal situations. Many of the most valiant spirits are actually born in to adverse family situations. This is because they knew ahead of time what they were getting in to and actually chose to be in those situations because they can help that family and they have the strength to overcome the obstacles.

During judgement, only Heavenly Father will be able to judge perfectly because He knows what each person had to deal with, what advantages or disadvantages we had. It is also why we can approach Him in prayer because He understands our problems, our temptations, our pains we had to endure here due to others unrighteousness. He even understands WHY we have the temptations that we have.

THE Atonement will only be good for those who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, repent and honestly strive to follow the commandments. Those that do not take advantage of the gift of salvation that Jesus Christ paid the price for will have to suffer for their own sins. This is one reason that a loving Heavenly Father gives us about 80 years to work at getting it right~

Edited January 1, 2009 by georgia2

[deseretgov]

I don't want to be contentious but I disagree with this statement.

During the pre-mortal existence and our desire and valiancy in the war in heaven, we showed to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ where we were on that scale. This is how the decisions were made to when we would come to earth, where we would be born, what family and family situations we would be born into, what talents and opportunities we would have here.

Those that were more valiant are the ones that are more likely to hear the voice of the Lord and feel those stirrings in their heart when they learn of the Gospel. Our spirits and temperaments do not, have not changed since we came to earth. WE are still the same. This does not mean that stronger spirits are just born in to ideal situations. Many of the most valiant spirits are actually born in to adverse family situations. This is because they knew ahead of time what they were getting in to and actually chose to be in those situations because they can help that family and they have the strength to overcome the obstacles.

I don't believe that our placement on this earth is due to our valiance in the Pre-mortal life. There were some many infinite factors that determined our current position, that saying that our valiance is the single one is untrue.

Sorry. I'm sure you didn't mean it to be like that but it just kind of runs me the wrong way. I think it's best if we say only Heavenly Father knows why people are born in certain circumstances. Because truthfully He's the only one that knows.

[georgia2]

i'm also sure that there are many additional circumstances to where, when, how, so forth in our earthly birth.

[Justice]

I actually agree with georgia2's comments. Not necessarily because "the better we performed in the pre-mortal existence, the more opportunity and chance THEY will give us..." I don't think that's what s/he was saying.

But, because the reason we accepted The Father's plan with Jehova as our Redeemer is because those spirits were more valiant. It's more who they were than anything else. If you have a child more willing to listen and be obedient, and another who is less willing to listen and obedient, you will treat them differently. The one more willing to listen will make more of the opportunities given to him, even though the other child was given the same opportunity. The parent might strive, or at least seem to strive, a little harder to help the one who is less willing to listen, just like in the stories Christ taught about the Prodigal Son and the Lost Sheep. Any good parent would "leave the 99" to help the one that is lost, and would rejoice if a wayward son returned.

If you carefully listen to the parent's, or Lord's, answer in both of these stories, it's NOT that the wayward one is loved more, or that more effort was given toward them, but that both are loved equally and both require different things.

So, I believe those who were more valiant will make more of the opportunities given to them on earth. That's just a logical conclusion. Being born a prophet isn't necessarily the easier road, since it means you will face greater trial and judgment. Being born "rich" or "poor" have unique trials. Many times it's easier to remain humble if you are born poor.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Justice

[Hemidakota]

That assumption is correct. For us, if you read your PB, you can clearly see why when we are born, where we are born, and why for some in the covenant and others outside of the covenant.

[BenRaines]

desertgov,

There have been a few General Authorities who have stated, at one time or another, that where we are in mortal existence, born in to LDS family, what part of the world, etc. was determined by our pre mortal existence. I don't believe that it is scripture but opinion. Someone who knows better can correct me for sure.

Personally I don't believe that we are rewarded in mortal life for performance in pre-existence. The reward for performance in pre-existence was to be allowed a mortal existence.

I too have a hard time with more valiant one generation over another. Could there be a more valiant group than the 2,000 stripling warriors?

Ben Raines

[Hemidakota]

President David OMcKay was the one who talked about the Royal Lineage. He is correct.