Do we need the Spirit to be with us for ALL types of learning?

[Superbaldguy]

Of course, we know the companionship of the Holy Ghost facilitates gospel learning, is it any different for such things as secular studies?

[Hemidakota]

No....as further my studies in both Physics, or the Astro-Science fields, I would apply the same principle as I do the gospel; when searching out truths or answers to gospel questions. What I have learn, is a greater appreciation of field of study while being instructed on one-hand, academia, and on the other, the Spirit.

[Hemidakota]

Before I was interrupted in my office, I failed to say this by a talk given at BYU by James S. Jardine:

How we consecrate ourselves-our hearts and minds and strengths-is a continuous and continuously evolving endeavor. Certain forms of consecration are relevant while you are formally a university student-for instance, developing a complementary graduate-level knowledge of the scriptures and the doctrines of the gospel. There are different forms of consecration when learning is primarily "on the job"-in the home, in the workplace, in Church work, in personal relations; where, as Elder Maxwell says, "we are each other's clinical material." I would like to suggest several ideas on how we may consecrate our intellectual talents, our learning "unto the Lord."

I can recall thinking, at the student stage of life, of consecrating my life in one grand, heroic gesture. But as life progresses, our moments for consecration are specific, finite, and simple. Given that reality, when we consecrate our learning we must not "look beyond the mark" (Jacob 4:14). We should be ready to consecrate our talents to the task at hand, whether or not it is a task we have envisioned for ourselves. Consecration is not a once-in-a-lifetime event; it is a daily devotion. As Paul says, we "die daily" in the Lord (1 Cor. 15:31). If we have truly consecrated our learning, we will serve with "all our mind," whether it is in organizing the nursery or teaching a Gospel Doctrine class. This is not always easy. Professor Scruggs told me that when, as a relatively recent convert, he accepted a mission call, his sister sent him a poster which read, "Use me, O Lord, in Thy work, but preferably in an administrative capacity." The challenge of consecrating ourselves for less visible or "non-administrative" work increases proportionately as our own skills increase.

We must remember that the university was made for man, and not man for the university. For the educated, we may face the challenge of sustaining Church leaders who use bad grammar. Truly consecrating your learning allows you to look upon the hearts of such leaders and not on the outward appearance of their sentence structure. Our consecrated learning enables us more completely to comfort those who stand in need of comfort-whether they are learned or uneducated, successful or downtrodden, gracious or difficult.

[Justice]

This has been an interest of mine as well.

There are 2 ways of learning truth. We can study and experiment until we are reasonably sure, or sure beyond any doubt, that a thing is true. Or, it can be revealed from God.

Here's a small example. A couple years ago I developed an odd curiosity to study "fruits and vegetables." I wanted to know what made something a fruit, and what made something a vegetable. This curiosity sprang from reading about fruits and symbols used for fruit in the scriptures. I read garden sites, coking sites, and became reasonably sure that one thing was true, even though some experts did not share this truth. As I was reading the creation in Genesis, I discovered that God reveals this to us already. What was revealed was exactly what I had decided was true, and was praying to know if it was.

When I read it in Genesis, and it hit me exactly why it was true, many things about the stories that use fruit became much more vivid, and it ulocked deeper, more precious truths about the Fall, and the teaching God gave Adam about tilling the earth, and many, many other uses of seed and fruit in the scriptures became "light" to me. It dawned on me for the first time exactly why God created fruit first of all vegetation, why He used fruit trees as symbols of "life" and "the knowledge of good and evil" in the Garden of Eden, and why Christ is called the "firstfruits" of those that slept. The parables of sowers using seed, allegories of olive trees, visions of trees with fruit on them, all became much more clear.

My point is that if you learn truth any other way than by the Spirit, there is always the possibility you will learn more later and have to re-learn, or un-learn your truth like it says in Isaiah. But, when you learn truth via the Spirit you can be 100% confident that it is true and will remain true for eternity.

[Elgama]

Do you have to have the spirit with you NO, however I think as we have the Gift of the Holy Ghost not to use him does us a disservice.

I have studied a variety of subjects at degree level (one day will decide what I want to do when I grow up lol) Anthrpology, Archaeology, Geology, Sociology, History, Astronomy, Particle Physics, Psychology, English Law, and I guess I just don't see any of it as secular learning its purpose in my eyes is to increase my eternal potential, if its not doing that its worthless. I truly believe that some of the greatest minds I have met are guided by Heavenly Father, even if they don't acknowledge it themselves. Why restrict ourselves to the learning of men when we can enrich it with that of our Heavenly Father

It is worthwhile to remember we are mortal learning of the divine and trying to see things from a perspective we don't have but as Latter Day Saints we have been gifted with modern day revelation, extra scripture and the Gift of the Holy Ghost and its nice to use that to form opinions and learn. Quite frankly if it wasn't for Heavenly Father the more I learned the less I would truly know there would be no sureity

-Charley:.bullhorn:

[Superbaldguy]

Good answers, folks. I am concerned as I get older, my capacity for studying seems more difficult, and the companionship of the Holy Ghost is more imperative. I don't think that for one moment that we get "stupid" as we age, it just seems harder to focus on new secular studies.

I am required to upgrade my insurance career by taking certain courses. These may have seemed easier to grapple 20 years ago, before the days of the Church, but I would hope my quest for the companionship of the Spirit might allow me, as one of the offshoots, to be able to learn such things. I may not make a high score on the exams, but I would hope and pray I could get through the endeavour

I just spent the last hour studying a textbook, I could not feel the influence of the Holy Ghost as I did something to possibly grieve the Spirit before I started, but I am already finding it is slowly flowing back as I keep plugging along - I should really go back and review the material, tomorrow.

This "flowing back" of the Spirit into my life, for whatever reason and time, is an interesting phenomena, and it feels good.........The Lord is so forgiving, it's like we almost have an infinite number of attempts to get it right.

[applepansy]

The Lord is so forgiving, it's like we almost have an infinite number of attempts to get it right.

I believe we do have an infinite number of attempts to get it right. That's what repentance is all about. And its why we are commanded to forgive everyone.

The sooner we get right though, the sooner we get to move on to bigger and better things.

Good Luck with your studies. I find when I'm learning new things it helps to start with a prayer.

applepansy

[Hemidakota]

Good answers, folks. I am concerned as I get older, my capacity for studying seems more difficult, and the companionship of the Holy Ghost is more imperative. I don't think that for one moment that we get "stupid" as we age, it just seems harder to focus on new secular studies.

I am required to upgrade my insurance career by taking certain courses. These may have seemed easier to grapple 20 years ago, before the days of the Church, but I would hope my quest for the companionship of the Spirit might allow me, as one of the offshoots, to be able to learn such things. I may not make a high score on the exams, but I would hope and pray I could get through the endeavour

I just spent the last hour studying a textbook, I could not feel the influence of the Holy Ghost as I did something to possibly grieve the Spirit before I started, but I am already finding it is slowly flowing back as I keep plugging along - I should really go back and review the material, tomorrow.

This "flowing back" of the Spirit into my life, for whatever reason and time, is an interesting phenomena, and it feels good.........The Lord is so forgiving, it's like we almost have an infinite number of attempts to get it right.

My old sectarian notional teaching of Dinos, as Justice stated, was unlearned when the Spirit instructed me and was corrected.

At times, we do 'row in reverse' in order to learn it again the correct way.

[Superbaldguy]

I was careful to use the term "almost."

I firmly believe we can repent of almost any sin, even if we feel we are in so deep we cannot get out - this is Satan's way of trying to drag us carefully down to hell - but we should and cannot make it a practice to sin and repent like a yo-yo or roller coaster ride. I often feel I am guilty of this; sometimes, I know I have the Spirit, often because I have genuinely repented, but I end up going back to my same sin(s) given time and lack of discipline.

Of course, we are all prone to sin and will inevitably commit it at some point, usually we do so many times a day. The beauty of the Atonement is it is infinite, not a once-only occurrence in the meridian of time. Because it is truly infinite and always ongoing, so is the process of repentance, it's natural "dance partner."

I am so thankful for these two principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ; otherwise, we would be damned during mortality and have no purpose experiencing its vicissitudes.

[Justice]

Understanding the unpardonable sin is elusive to many. It is worded unusual in the scriptures. This is my take after years of study about the unpardonable sin.

If there is a sin that, once truly repented of, cannot be forgiven, then the atonement of Jesus Christ becomes limited. The only sins that cannot or will not be forgiven are those that are not repented of.

If one commits the unpardonable sin he is beyond repentance because, simply, he never will repent of it.

There is no limit to what can be forgiven through honest and sincere repentance by the atonement. It must be, or the atonement is not infinite and eternal.

The unpardonable sin is a final and lasting decision that you don't want to be forgiven and will therefore never repent.

[Lyle]

"...who has been promised all the blessings of peace that come with baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and yet who counts the promises worthless."president Henry B Eyring 5 Oct. 1986 GC

he also has said "The method of knowing truth requires that both he who speaks and he who hears be guided by the Holy Ghost." and we must"...win the companionship of the Holy Ghost so we can recognize truth."

Repentance is a greek word that means to have a new mind

there are some concepts on mathematics, physics, psychology and even physiology that required me and i am sure many others to have to open our minds forget what we knew as how things work and how they are, to have a new mind o that we can accept and apply things in such a way that i might know a truth that i could not accept any other way.

McConkie said that "The Holy Ghost is a Revelator; he is a Sanctifier; he revels truth, and he cleanses human souls. He is the Spirit of Truth, and his baptism is one of fire. He burns out dross and evil..."1979 the mortal messiah i needed disernment when learning some things in the literary relms as well as the worlds of psychology.

now some people disagree with me. i believe that all things in mortality are based on the things from the pre-mortal relm that all truth despite its source can be found through discernment.

that the holy spirit which is the spirit of truth is the best, the greatest way to learn all things especially scholarly things

[applepansy]

"...who has been promised all the blessings of peace that come with baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and yet who counts the promises worthless."president Henry B Eyring 5 Oct. 1986 GC

he also has said "The method of knowing truth requires that both he who speaks and he who hears be guided by the Holy Ghost." and we must"...win the companionship of the Holy Ghost so we can recognize truth."

Repentance is a greek word that means to have a new mind

there are some concepts on mathematics, physics, psychology and even physiology that required me and i am sure many others to have to open our minds forget what we knew as how things work and how they are, to have a new mind o that we can accept and apply things in such a way that i might know a truth that i could not accept any other way.

McConkie said that "The Holy Ghost is a Revelator; he is a Sanctifier; he revels truth, and he cleanses human souls. He is the Spirit of Truth, and his baptism is one of fire. He burns out dross and evil..."1979 the mortal messiah i needed disernment when learning some things in the literary relms as well as the worlds of psychology.

now some people disagree with me. i believe that all things in mortality are based on the things from the pre-mortal relm that all truth despite its source can be found through discernment.

that the holy spirit which is the spirit of truth is the best, the greatest way to learn all things especially scholarly things

I will happily be a geek. I love the word Repentance. Without Repentance we cannot return to live with our Heavenly Father.

[gaspah]

I firmly believe we can repent of almost any sin, even if we feel we are in so deep we cannot get out - this is Satan's way of trying to drag us carefully down to hell - but we should and cannot make it a practice to sin and repent like a yo-yo or roller coaster ride. I often feel I am guilty of this; sometimes, I know I have the Spirit, often because I have genuinely repented, but I end up going back to my same sin(s) given time and lack of discipline.

Well of course not, if you just use repentance as an excuse to sin, then you are making a mockery of the whole reason for repentance. But, I'm sure if you genuinely repent for doing that, you will surely be forgiven for that transgression also. Much like taking the weekly sacrament when you have no intention of keeping yourself holy, I'm sure God takes offence.

/off topic

Anyway, the Holy Ghost is a companion to help you through all of your life's problem, not limited to anything. As long as your environment/spirit is somewhere it can dwell, surely it will help with any studies you have to undertake.

Edited January 8, 2009 by gaspah