We LDS do funny things.

[Misshalfway]

Why is it that our new buildings have wonderful RS rooms and no room for the Priesthood?

And why does the wife always speak before the man in Sacrament Meeting?

Any why do the wives always only say the opening prayer and the husbands always say the closing prayer?

(Was sitting in church on Sunday thinking these random thoughts. Yeah....bet you are wondering if the speakers were boring. )

[Wingnut]

Any why do the wives always only say the opening prayer and the husbands always say the closing prayer?

I've often wondered about this as well. In a worldwide leadership broadcast a few years back, the focus was actually on conducting sacrament meetings, and this practice was specifically mentioned and specifically discouraged. That is, the habit of inviting a couple to give the prayers. I remember reading that it was because it can give the impression that unmarried people are somehow less qualified to participate.

[Wingnut]

Off to find a source for that, since I know I'll probably be called on it.

[Wingnut]

Got it.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Worshiping at Sacrament Meeting

Invitations to speak should be extended well in advance and include a clear description of the topic assigned and time allotted, along with an offer to help. Those asked to pray should include members not often called upon. Avoid patterns of prayers given by a husband and wife at the same meeting. This conveys an unintentional message of exclusion to those who are single. And remember: prayers are not sermons.

[ldslesson]

I teach the Teachers Quorum in my ward and we got kicked out of our room by the Primary (we were ok with that) and are asked to meet in the back of the gym or in the kitchen! The boys voted for the kitchen!

[Gwen]

I teach the Teachers Quorum in my ward and we got kicked out of our room by the Primary (we were ok with that) and are asked to meet in the back of the gym or in the kitchen! The boys voted for the kitchen!

i bet they were disappointed when they realized we don't actually keep food in our kitchens.

[Misshalfway]

I teach the Teachers Quorum in my ward and we got kicked out of our room by the Primary (we were ok with that) and are asked to meet in the back of the gym or in the kitchen! The boys voted for the kitchen!

you know...I wonder about this. My neighborhood is growing like wildfire. Our ward has been split a million times and we are now attending our third new chapel in the past year. If the church is building new churches why hasn't the footprint of the new buildings match the needs of each ward? I am proud that they finally figured out that creating a nursery room with a mini bathroom was a great idea. I guess I wonder why they don't create a priesthood room and a young men's room.....or maybe the stage IS the priesthood room....except when the chapel doesn't have a stage. Hmmm......

[applepansy]

Our Priesthood meet in the Chapel for the first block. For the wards following they meet in the cultural hall. The new chapels dont' have a stage anymore.

I haven't seen couples asked to give prayers in decades. I guess it still happens in some places. The talks are different. I think we have the women talk prior to the men as a show of respect? Just guessing. Kind of like a man opening the door for a woman. . . poor analogy but oh well.

Yes, we are a peculiar people.

applepansy

[Wingnut]

The talks are different. I think we have the women talk prior to the men as a show of respect? Just guessing. Kind of like a man opening the door for a woman. . . poor analogy but oh well.

I agree it's a courtesy...that way it's the guy that has to fill all the extra time at the end. :)

[kathysmike]

Just yesterday, in my ward the Priesthood was asked to allow the the Relief Society to meet in the chapel, since they need the room. Which is fine with the brethren , since the Elders Quorum can now meet in the warm cozy R.S room instead of the cold stage. It is very rare that we have Husbands and Wives speak at the same meetings, prayers' are never offered by spouses on the same week.

[applepansy]

I agree it's a courtesy...that way it's the guy that has to fill all the extra time at the end. :)

I like it that the guy speaks last. . . for that exact reason

[siouxz72]

Our ward also does not have husbands and wives give prayers on the same day. And my friend Christine gave the closing prayer just yesterday! ha!

[Misshalfway]

.....except that some may get the impression that the more " legitimate" speaker (the priesthood holder) goes last.

[Misshalfway]

For example: when the local Mission President comes as a guest speaker, his wife goes first and his talk comes at the end. I am trying to remember how it works when the guest speaker is a woman. If the General RS pres comes to speak will her husband go first? Or will he even travel with her to speak?

[applepansy]

.....except that some may get the impression that the more " legitimate" speaker (the priesthood holder) goes last.

I'm a bit surprised by your statement of ligitimacy.

IMHO, anyone who decides to feel that way has already chosen to be offended. Why assume something with no evidence that that is the intent?

applepansy

[Misshalfway]

What if it sincerely isn't deciding to become offended but asking a question as to why we practice the traditions we practice to find out if there is truth to the idea?

You know....we don't want to believe that we are a Patriarchal society. But we are and I think such is a confusing concept sometimes.

[applepansy]

What if it sincerely isn't deciding to become offended but asking a question as to why we practice the traditions we practice to find out if there is truth to the idea?

You know....we don't want to believe that we are a Patriarchal society. But we are and I think such is a confusing concept sometimes.

We are a Patriarchal society. Who is We in "we don't want to believe that we are a Patriarchal society"? The people I know and family recognize we are exactly that.

That's doesn't mean that the things we do are about ligitimacy or demeaning to women. Often just the opposite.

Can't it just be a courtesy? A gesture showing Women are important?

[Gwen]

the idea that the priesthood holder (or man) is the more legitimate, knowledgeable, qualified, whatever you want to call it is a very logical conclusion.

general conference the prophet (or the presiding leader) always speaks last (i've always been taught that was so if anything was said inappropriately he can correct it). when the high counsel or stake leadership come to speak they are always last. was told that was for the same reason, they preside.

i've never seen the husband of a woman with a calling being asked to speak or traveling with them.... however i will admit to not seeing that many actually speak. on a lower level i have seen this. the stake rs pres husband isn't called to speak with her. however, the mission pres wife, the stake pres wife, the temple pres wife, etc. i've seen given this assignment.

everyone knows women are generaly the ones that like to talk, if there is extra time shouldn't they be the ones more qualified to fill it? and when it is the man that is the more long winded one i hate it when he goes last; the meeting is gaurenteed to run over.

[Truegrits]

And why does the wife always speak before the man in Sacrament Meeting?

Any why do the wives always only say the opening prayer and the husbands always say the closing prayer?

In my Ward the husband gives the opening (usually) and the wife the closing prayer. (And they DO still do the "pairing"). Once in a while it will be non-married, but not often.

I always thought the youth spoke first because they were the "shortest" talks, then the wife (medium length), then the longest talk was to be given by the male. (which is fine with me.)

a nursery room with a mini bathroom

Now that is a great idea, and I wish we had it, as I am the only one in Nursery with 5>6 kids!

[Misshalfway]

We are a Patriarchal society. Who is We in "we don't want to believe that we are a Patriarchal society"? The people I know and family recognize we are exactly that.

That's doesn't mean that the things we do are about ligitimacy or demeaning to women. Often just the opposite.

Can't it just be a courtesy? A gesture showing Women are important?

I am not saying it isn't. I just think there is more to it than that.

[applepansy]

I am not saying it isn't. I just think there is more to it than that.

ok. I don't think there is more to it than that. So we'll agree to disagree.

I too like the tiny bathrooms with shorter toilets for the nursery. Its so helpful.

[Gwen]

another situation i just thought about.... i was told when missionaries speak the senior companion is supposed to speak last... again, more knowledgeable, experienced, etc.

i'm actually surprised they would put small bathrooms in the nursery. given the lecture we got about needing to have 2 ppl in a class now so no adult is alone with a youth/child i'd think a bathroom could be a problem... just like nursery leaders don't change diapers. ????

[Misshalfway]

ok. I don't think there is more to it than that. So we'll agree to disagree.

I too like the tiny bathrooms with shorter toilets for the nursery. Its so helpful.

Sorry Apple. I didn't really mean to upset anyone by asking the question. I think perhaps I am trying to figure out a few deeper feelings I have being raised and reared in a Patriarchal system that in some ways has inadvertently created an interesting and unintended culture of traditions where the worth of women and girls is sometimes still in question. Part of that might just be cultural and not related to the gospel at all but still woven into church culture.

I really don't think on the balance that women in the church are second class citizens. But I do wonder about the things Gwen added. And if there are any gents out there that still think they preside over their wives, then they need to learn a thing or two about gospel doctrine.

The truth is I was just sitting in church and humorously noodling over why we do certain things and wondering the origins of some of our practices like why there wasn't a room for the priesthood akin the RS and Primary rooms. That is all. For all I know, it could be a budget decision.

I don't think the church always recognizes completely that sometimes they do send a different message to the women about their worth .... or at least call it into subtle question on occasion -- most of which I think is innocent in inadvertent. Other times I think it is obvious and I wish the church would address some of the practices.

IE. Why is General RS meeting not included in the General Conference but held outside of it a week before?

Why are the boys given award after award and given courts of honor and have weekly meetings where their moms and dads get to take pics and tell them how awesome they are and it has taken the church so long to even create a girls program that even now meets half the time of the boys and is only geared around the Faith in God program?

So easy to look at these practices and say it doesn't mean what I think it means, but somewhere deep within, I still wonder. It seems some of these practices undermine the churches message.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Misshalfway]

another situation i just thought about.... i was told when missionaries speak the senior companion is supposed to speak last... again, more knowledgeable, experienced, etc.

i'm actually surprised they would put small bathrooms in the nursery. given the lecture we got about needing to have 2 ppl in a class now so no adult is alone with a youth/child i'd think a bathroom could be a problem... just like nursery leaders don't change diapers. ????

I think they handle it the same way my preschool does. Only the children who are potty trained use it. The leaders aren't to go in to help them and call parents if there is an issue. I think it is helpful when you have a boat load of kids and know you don't have to take the whole class with you to take one to the potty.

[Gwen]

Sorry Apple. I didn't really mean to upset anyone by asking the question. I think perhaps I am trying to figure out a few deeper feelings I have being raised and reared in a Patriarchal system that in some ways has inadvertently created an interesting and unintended culture of traditions where the worth of women and girls is sometimes still in question. Part of that might just be cultural and not related to the gospel at all but still woven into church culture.

I really don't think on the balance that women in the church are second class citizens. But I do wonder about the things Gwen added. And if there are any gents out there that still think they preside over their wives, then they need to learn a thing or two about gospel doctrine.

The truth is I was just sitting in church and humorously noodling over why we do certain things and wondering the origins of some of our practices like why there wasn't a room for the priesthood akin the RS and Primary rooms. That is all. For all I know, it could be a budget decision.

I don't think the church always recognizes completely that sometimes they do send a different message to the women about their worth .... or at least call it into subtle question on occasion -- most of which I think is innocent in inadvertent. Other times I think it is obvious and I wish the church would address some of the practices.

IE. Why is General RS meeting not included in the General Conference but held outside of it a week before?

Why are the boys given award after award and given courts of honor and have weekly meetings where their moms and dads get to take pics and tell them how awesome they are and it has taken the church so long to even create a girls program that even now meets half the time of the boys and is only geared around the Faith in God program?

So easy to look at these practices and say it doesn't mean what I think it means, but somewhere deep within, I still wonder. It seems some of these practices undermine the churches message.

i agree misshalf. i think there are a lot of things done that are just carry over and traditions of men. they have nothing to do with doctrine and can be easily misunderstood.

as for rs meetings (general and stake) being held a few weeks from the other meetings i do think that is for the benefit of the women. if the women's meetings were in the mix of all the other chaos i would never get to go, being a bit off makes it stand out more and i think i get better support from my family in attending.