Rlds Church President Resigns

[Amulek]

INDEPENDENCE, Missouri - W. Grant McMurray, president of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, resigned Monday in a letter to church leaders citing "inappropriate choices".

The president and prophet of the second largest body of Latter day Saints (Mormons), the resignation is unprecedented in the faith's 174 year old history. President McMurray had served in the post for eight years.

In his resignation letter dated 29 November 2004 McMurray stated that for "several years I have struggled with personal and family issues that have impacted my ability to function unreservedly in my office and calling." He went on to allude to personal failings, stating "I have made some inappropriate choices, and the circumstances of my life are now such that I cannot continue to effectively lead the church."

The letter further asks that the church release McMurray from the lay priesthood of the faith.

Church tradition dictates that the current president selects, with he consent of other senior leaders and the general membership, who should follow him in the office. But in a further unprecedented move McMurray has declined to take on that role saying "On the matter of succession in presidency, our tradition anticipates that I would designate a successor. In my present situation, I do not feel it is appropriate to do so."

At this point there is no clear indication who might follow President McMurray. Church practice is that McMurray's two assistances, President Peter A. Judd and President Kenneth N. Robinson, will lead the faith until a successor is named.

Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also known as the Community of Christ is second largest of the Latter day Saint faiths, who are sometimes known as Mormons. Headquartered in Independence, Missouri and is independent of the larger Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the U.S. state of Utah. Both churches trace there origins to Joseph Smith, Jr. They split in the mid 19th century in a disagreement over who should succeed Smith following his murder in 1844.

The RLDS Church is found world wide with it's strongest following in the U.S. states of Missouri and Iowa as well as in parts of French Polynesia.

[Faerie]

maybe you could post this a few more times so that all the other posts are knocked off the front page..thanks!

[speedomansam]

where'd you get that article? it doesn't even good grammar.

[Ray]

Did you personally see this happen or are you quoting from a news article, Amulek?

Anyway, if the story is true, I think it’s pretty sad news, to hear that a leader of Christians doesn't know about the miracle of forgiveness that is available to him, on the condition that he sincerely repents. Or perhaps he does know about that and is simply choosing not to avail himself of it.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 2 2004, 04:29 PM

Did you personally see this happen or are you quoting from a news article, Amulek?

Anyway, if the story is true, I think it’s pretty sad news, to hear that a leader of Christians doesn't know about the miracle of forgiveness that is available to him, on the condition that he sincerely repents. Or perhaps he does know about that and is simply choosing not to avail himself of it.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha Ray. Do you really think that our church would keep President Hinkley on board if he were guilty of some grievous sin? Better to quit than be fired!

[Snow]

Originally posted by speedomansam@Dec 2 2004, 03:21 PM

where'd you get that article? it doesn't even good grammar.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 2 2004, 03:29 PM

Did you personally see this happen or are you quoting from a news article, Amulek?

Anyway, if the story is true, I think it’s pretty sad news, to hear that a leader of Christians doesn't know about the miracle of forgiveness that is available to him, on the condition that he sincerely repents. Or perhaps he does know about that and is simply choosing not to avail himself of it.

It is not particulary big news but it is a few papers including the SL Tribune. Here's one link:

http://www.examiner.net/stories/120204/new...120204007.shtml

Perhaps Ray, you are unaware that the LDS Church has fired (excommunicated) a goodly number of it's prophets, seers, and revelators), George P. Lee is the latest as I recall. One, Orson Hyde, got fired and later rehired. If not for the time missed during his excommunication, he would have been President. If only Brigham Young or Ezra Taft Benson had been as enlightened as you Ray. Perhaps you should email President Hinckley.

Note: looking at a picture of ex-Pres McMurray it is hard to imagine him being guilty of any thing more serious than not helping an old lady across the street.

[Snow]

You can see a KSL newsclip here:

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=39&sid=136528

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

[Snow]

Python bites a student at Valley High here:

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=8&sid=136529

[speedomansam]

Originally posted by Snow+Dec 2 2004, 10:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Dec 2 2004, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--speedomansam@Dec 2 2004, 03:21 PM

where'd you get that article? it doesn't even good grammar.

mwaha

[Deb]

Originally posted by Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:18 PM

Python bites a student at Valley High here:

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=8&sid=136529

Signs of the times?

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

[Amulek]

Originally posted by Blessed+Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Blessed @ Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Blessed, as I recall you are a CofC member correct? I was curious reading the article that Snow posted is spoke of the Conference members voting on a list of names put up by the Quorum of the Twelve. Is this normal proceedure for replacing the President of the Church? And what happended the the requirement that was so much a part of the RLDS church that the next President must be a decendant of Joseph Smith?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Amulek

(Sorry about all of the duplicate threads that I asked to have deleted. I was having some problems with my computer and I kept getting an error message so I tried again. Finally I gave up and to my surprise found I had multiple posts of the same thread that did go through)

~

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Amulek+Dec 3 2004, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amulek @ Dec 3 2004, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Blessed@Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Blessed, as I recall you are a CofC member correct? I was curious reading the article that Snow posted is spoke of the Conference members voting on a list of names put up by the Quorum of the Twelve. Is this normal proceedure for replacing the President of the Church? And what happended the the requirement that was so much a part of the RLDS church that the next President must be a decendant of Joseph Smith?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Amulek

(Sorry about all of the duplicate threads that I asked to have deleted. I was having some problems with my computer and I kept getting an error message so I tried again. Finally I gave up and to my surprise found I had multiple posts of the same thread that did go through)

~

Once you repeat the post, the multiple, unrepented posts come back to tarnish you because it means you never repented the repeated post in the first place.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Snow@ Dec 2 2004, 10:07 PM

Perhaps Ray, you are unaware that the LDS Church has fired (excommunicated) a goodly number of it's prophets, seers, and revelators), George P. Lee is the latest as I recall. One, Orson Hyde, got fired and later rehired. If not for the time missed during his excommunication, he would have been President.

I know that certain Apostles and General Authorities of the Church were excommunicated in the past, but I don’t know of anyone in the Church being excommunicated after confessing their sins and expressing sincere repentance, unless they committed certain sins with full knowledge that they were being rebellious.

In other words, to my knowledge, only the people who rebelled against the light and knowledge they were given were excommunicated from the Church, because they would not repent, and I’ve never heard of anyone being excommunicated after confessing their sins and expressing sincere repentance. And as far as I know, that is all that is required in order to receive forgiveness from sin, by virtue of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

And again in other words, I don’t understand why President McMurray decided that he needed to leave his church or his priesthood, because as far as I know, it was his decision to leave. If it had been me, I would have confessed my sins and pleaded for forgiveness from the other priesthood authorities, and if they decided that I should be excommunicated, it would have been because that was their will, and not mine. Why would anyone choose to turn their back on what they believe to be right?

If only Brigham Young or Ezra Taft Benson had been as enlightened as you Ray.

I acknowledge that both of those men were and are a lot more enlightened than me. Are you intentionally trying to make it appear otherwise?

Perhaps you should email President Hinckley.

Heh, about what? I acknowledge him to be a lot more enlightened than me too, and I sustain him as the presiding high priest of our Lord’s church here on Earth.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amulek+Dec 3 2004, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amulek @ Dec 3 2004, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Blessed@Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Blessed, as I recall you are a CofC member correct? I was curious reading the article that Snow posted is spoke of the Conference members voting on a list of names put up by the Quorum of the Twelve. Is this normal proceedure for replacing the President of the Church? And what happended the the requirement that was so much a part of the RLDS church that the next President must be a decendant of Joseph Smith?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Amulek

In answer to your questions, no, it is not normal for there to be a list presented to the conference to choose from. I don't believe that that is what they are suggesting, anyway. The letter indicated that the quorums would pick someone and present that name (singular) to the conference.

The second question can be answered by saying that they voted in 1970 to remove that section from the D&C so they don't have to follow the rules anymore. IMO, though, there is a difference between a president and a prophet, and the church has had both (in the form of two different people) for the past 8 years. Wallace B. Smith is still prophet, but Grant McMurray was president and CEO of the organization. What happens in the future regarding those two offices (that should be one) is going to be a surprise for everyone.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 3 2004, 10:33 AM

And again in other words, I don’t understand why President McMurray decided that he needed to leave his church or his priesthood, because as far as I know, it was his decision to leave......

Ray, the article never said he left his church, it said he resigned from his calling as Church President. He more than likely is still a member of his church. Blessed explained the priesthood resignation.

M.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Maureen+Dec 3 2004, 11:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Dec 3 2004, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Dec 3 2004, 10:33 AM

And again in other words, I don’t understand why President McMurray decided that he needed to leave his church or his priesthood, because as far as I know, it was his decision to leave......

Ray, the article never said he left his church, it said he resigned from his calling as Church President. He more than likely is still a member of his church. Blessed explained the priesthood resignation.

M.

My main point was that it was his decision to resign his position in his church, and when I think of somebody resigning, I think of somebody giving up or deciding to move on to other things. And I still don't understand why he chose to do that.

[Amillia]

The nasties have come out again.

Back to topic> I am glad he resigned. What if he didn't admit he was off and needed to step down?

Community of Christ web site:

"What circumstances led to Grant McMurray's resignation?

"Brother McMurray has indicated that he made some inappropriate choices while encountering significant struggles in personal and family life. These circumstances led him to resign from his position as president of the Community of Christ and request release from priesthood office."

[Deb]

Originally posted by Blessed+Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Blessed @ Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Does he really hold THE priesthood?

And the Holy Cow is always where?

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Amulek+Dec 3 2004, 10:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amulek @ Dec 3 2004, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Blessed@Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Blessed, as I recall you are a CofC member correct? I was curious reading the article that Snow posted is spoke of the Conference members voting on a list of names put up by the Quorum of the Twelve. Is this normal proceedure for replacing the President of the Church? And what happended the the requirement that was so much a part of the RLDS church that the next President must be a decendant of Joseph Smith?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Amulek

(Sorry about all of the duplicate threads that I asked to have deleted. I was having some problems with my computer and I kept getting an error message so I tried again. Finally I gave up and to my surprise found I had multiple posts of the same thread that did go through)

~

No prob, there.

This is knida new to us. The fact that he did not designate a president/prophet was a shock. As this is how is it is formally done. Yet we do have things set up say if the Pres were to die ... procedures to elect a new one and this is what we will now be doing.

There is nothing within our cannon or theology that has ever said that it must be a lineage issue with the choosing of the prophet. Jenda may disagree. But that was the tradition. My hope and prayer is that Wally B Smith (prophet emeritus) will return. If not, then I would pray Apostle Linda Booth will be desiginated.

I hope that helps some.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Deb+Dec 3 2004, 01:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Deb @ Dec 3 2004, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Blessed@Dec 3 2004, 10:12 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Dec 2 2004, 11:16 PM

It says he resigned his "priesthood." How does one resign his priesthood?

In our church a priesthood officer can choose to turn in his/her card for personal reasons. It basically means they will not function in any role as PH.

Some reactivate it. Some do not.

The Holy Call is always there though.

Does he really hold THE priesthood?

And the Holy Cow is always where?

If you have a question ask it. Don't beat around the bush... you will wear yourself out.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Blessed@Dec 3 2004, 02:08 PM

There is nothing within our cannon or theology that has ever said that it must be a lineage issue with the choosing of the prophet. Jenda may disagree. But that was the tradition. My hope and prayer is that Wally B Smith (prophet emeritus) will return. If not, then I would pray Apostle Linda Booth will be desiginated.

I hope that helps some.

It wasn't tradition, it was in Section 107, which was conveniently removed by the Conference, under the leadings of the people who wanted to wrest the church out of the hands of the Smiths, and the church fell for it.

And if Linda Booth is designated, the church will be in complete apostasy.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Amillia@Dec 3 2004, 11:51 AM

The nasties have come out again.

Back to topic> I am glad he resigned. What if he didn't admit he was off and needed to step down?

Community of Christ web site:

"What circumstances led to Grant McMurray's resignation?

"Brother McMurray has indicated that he made some inappropriate choices while encountering significant struggles in personal and family life. These circumstances led him to resign from his position as president of the Community of Christ and request release from priesthood office."

No new news there, so I still don't understand it. When I make “inappropriate choices while encountering significant struggles in my personal and family life”, I don’t think about resigning my position in the church. I think about seeking forgiveness and listening to what the authorities in the Church say to help me. And this article doesn’t say that the authorities asked him to resign, it says that he chose to resign on his own. Why would he do that? Do you think they asked him to resign?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Ray+Dec 3 2004, 03:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Dec 3 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Dec 3 2004, 11:51 AM

The nasties have come out again.

Back to topic>  I am glad he resigned. What if he didn't admit he was off and needed to step down?

Community of Christ web site:

"What circumstances led to Grant McMurray's resignation?

"Brother McMurray has indicated that he made some inappropriate choices while encountering significant struggles in personal and family life. These circumstances led him to resign from his position as president of the Community of Christ and request release from priesthood office."

No new news there, so I still don't understand it. When I make “inappropriate choices while encountering significant struggles in my personal and family life”, I don’t think about resigning my position in the church. I think about seeking forgiveness and listening to what the authorities in the Church say to help me. And this article doesn’t say that the authorities asked him to resign, it says that he chose to resign on his own. Why would he do that? Do you think they asked him to resign?

There is only speculation.