Ulmec (Jeradite) people

[darrel]

I was watching a History Channel documentry the other night in which they showed the discoveries of some of the oldest worked stone heads found in the Americas. They said that they were from the Ulmec peoples dating about 2000 years bc.

I am curious if anyone has seen these stone heads and if they look to you to have curiousl features of wide nostrals and large lips. My impression was to think that they resembled a black race of people.

Does anyone have any opinions on this abservation.

Could the Ulmec or Jeradite people from the Tower of Babel have been a black race of people.

Edited February 11, 2009 by darrel

[Maya]

Here a few links. Ofcourse all history is very speculative.

Evidence of the African Migration to America and Olmec Religion

Mayan civilization and parallels to the Book of Mormon

Mormon Sites - rising from the dust... (readingroom)

[Hemidakota]

I was watching a History Channel documentry the other night in which they showed the discoveries of some of the oldest worked stone heads found in the Americas. They said that they were from the Olmec peoples dating about 2000 years bc.

I am curious if anyone has seen these stone heads and if they look to you to have curious features of wide nostrils and large lips. My impression was to think that they resembled a black race of people.

Does anyone have any opinions on this observation.

Could the Ulmec or Jeradite people from the Tower of Babel have been a black race of people.

Yes! I do believe, long with others in the field of archeology that the Olmec, a.k.a, People of Jared once settled in that region. Also believe that Lehi when landed in that region, south of Guatemala City along the western shores, the civic unrest and fighting, a few people of Jared may had fled south. When Nephi moved inland, he was greeted by these individuals who are already built up cities.

As I do believe that the first Chinese decedents maybe the People of Jared who did not cross the ocean.

[Hemidakota]

I am curious if anyone has seen these stone heads and if they look to you to have curiousl features of wide nostrals and large lips. My impression was to think that they resembled a black race of people.

Not likely....however, mixing of races of other civilization that we are not privy at this time to know may had crossed over in the northern portion of the Americas.

[NeuroTypical]

I've yet to see conclusive evidence linking the Olmecs to the Jaredites. For that matter, I've never seen conclusive evidence linking anything archaeologists have found or seen that link up with BoM peoples.

There's evidence out there for sure, but it ain't conclusive.

LM

[Hemidakota]

As there was no Adam or Eve, let alone a person called Christ. Even worse, Enoch Calendar being called the Mayan Calender.

[Maya]

I sit tight and wait for more interesting possibilities.... I love all the possibilities!

[tefor]

If you want some more information, I strongly recomment An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon, by John L. Sorenson. He spends quite a bit of time talking about how in Mesoamerica cultures would conquer and build upon (literally) weaker societies. As I remember, he specifically mentions the Olmecs; I believe he also ties it in with how the people of Zarahemla built upon what was left of the Jaredite civilization. It's been a while since I read it so I don't remember precisely, but it's definitely worth reading--and fascinating in its own right.

[poulsenll]

Based on what little geography is described in the book of Ether, the Jaredites were located somewhat farther to the north than were the main body of the Olmec. The geography suggests that they were north of the narrow neck to the west of the Gulf of Mexico.

Ether 9:

3 And the Lord awarned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer bdeparted out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of cShim, and came over by the place dwhere the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward, and came to a place which was called Ablom, by the seashore, and there he pitched his tent, and also his sons and his daughters, and all his household, save it were Jared and his family.

Although the 24 gold plates containing the book of Ether were found among the people of Zarahemla who came up into the Land of Zarahemla from an area to the north, there is no compelling reason to indicate that they were the Jaredites described in the plates. This is not to say that they may not have been decendants of some of the others who accompanied Jared and his brother to the new world.

A careful reading of the fate of Coriantumr tells us that he would be cared for and buried by the people who would inherit his land of promise. This could not be the people of Zarahemla for the simple reason that the Land of Zarahemla was not in the same place as the land of the Jaredites, his land of inheritence. Cumorah was north of the narrow neck and Zarahemla was southward from the narrow neck.

As for the negroid features of the collosal heads, they do not represent the actual features and physionomy of the Olmecs. We have other carvings . The flat features resulted from the source of the stone used to create the heads. The heads were carved from rectangular blocks of stone used as thrones belonging to the ruler whose head was carved from the stone after death. The amount of stone and more likely the desire to retain as much of the throne like nature of the block resulted in a seriously flattened image and the appearance of negroid like features.

Larry P

[justamere10]

I was watching a History Channel documentry the other night in which they showed the discoveries of some of the oldest worked stone heads found in the Americas. They said that they were from the Ulmec peoples dating about 2000 years bc.

I am curious if anyone has seen these stone heads and if they look to you to have curiousl features of wide nostrals and large lips. My impression was to think that they resembled a black race of people.

Does anyone have any opinions on this abservation.

Could the Ulmec or Jeradite people from the Tower of Babel have been a black race of people.

I have seen quite a few Olmec heads in Mexico and have some small replicas in my home. Yes, they appear to have Negroid features but I think Dr. Poulsen has already commented on that.

Some of the artifacts in Mexico museums appear to be Negroid. I also saw some ancient skulls in a small village museum in Mexico that appeared to be Negroid by the general shape of the head as I recall. Maybe they were slaves captured in Africa. :)

I was on a field trip with Jerry Ainsworth once, working small villages for information. We began hearing about a large stone that had been dug out of a farmer's field a few days before. We finally tracked it down being the first gringos to see it. It was perhaps six feet high, six inches in depth (very heavy) and had the features of a man carved into it. Possibly Olmec?

On that same expedition locals in several villages told us of a recent flood when the bones of "giants" were exposed along the river. As I recall, some of the Jaredites were described in the Book of Mormon as being very large when their bones and decaying weapons were found.

[rameumptom]

While there is no evidence that the Jaredites were the Olmecs, it is very possible that the Jaredites were in contact with the Olmecs, or were a subset of their civilization. Yes, the Olmec statuary do suggest African origins, but there is no evidence other than the statues to show Africans were here in such large numbers to be considered Olmecs.

Given that the Jaredites came from the Tower of Babel, which traditionally had peoples from all over helping build the tower, it is possible that Jared and his friends could have included Chinese, Africans, and others in their troupe. It is also possible that they encountered the peoples already here.

What we do know is that the Olmec timeframe matches that of the Jaredites, and that the Pre-Mayans match the timeframe for the Lehites. That is not to say others weren't already there in either case, but that there are some matches.

[tefor]

Last night BYU TV had a fascinating program called "Journey of Faith: The New World which discussed some of these things. Not sure when it's on again, but it's worth watching.

[Madriglace]

I was able to see the Olmec heads in the archeological museum in mexico City ... to me they look more like some of the people from the south seas ... which from watching the program Journey of Faith on BYU Channel makes sense .... considering the route that the program suggest that they took.

[tefor]

I was able to see the Olmec heads in the archeological museum in mexico City ... to me they look more like some of the people from the south seas ... which from watching the program Journey of Faith on BYU Channel makes sense .... considering the route that the program suggest that they took.

Yeah, that program brought up a lot of things that I'd never considered when reading the BOM--such as the suggestion that the Lehites stopped at ports along the way in Asia and the South Pacific to replenish supplies and water and what-not; it's fascinating to think who they might have encountered along the way, and what kind of influence they might have had on them. (After all, Lehi was quite the missionary.)