pam Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Okay I need help. As very few right now frequest the Christ.org board..I'm finding myself having to answer questions. I'm afraid I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as many of you are.So here is the question:I'm reading the book of Mormon and have background of other churches and the 'create all things new' and locating Zion in Missouri seems off base from what I've read in the Bible.The 'create all things new' if found in Revelation. Why do you have it being said by Jesus 2000 years ago when Jesus spoke of this at the end of the earth? My response:I think I'm totally confused by your question. Why does who have Jesus saying? Also not sure what you mean by Jesus saying something at the end of the earth. Their response: The verse has Jesus saying things are done that in Revelation are not done until nearly the end. 'Make all things new', are you familiar with that passage? and we see it in the BOM out of order. Can someone help me out...or you can go to Christ.org and post there. Thanks in advance for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Do you have a verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 That's all that is posted so far. I could post that question to the one asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Here are some that I am aware of: The Lord's voice will be heard "unto the ends of the earth" (D&C 1:11), and "the day cometh when the thunders shall utter their voices from the ends of the earth" (D&C 43:21). In other words, God's words shall go forth to the furthermost regions of the earth and will reach any who may have been driven to such places (D&C 109:67). The "end of the earth" is the time when the earth shall pass away, be resurrected, and become a "new earth" (D&C 29:22-23; 43:31; 88:26; CHMR 1:143). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 If my memory serves me correctly, I do believe the verse is Revelation 21. If that be the case then look at the following by ProfessorRichard Draper's book called "Opening the Seven Seals: The Visions of John the Revelator"The New Jerusalem(AN ANALYSIS OF REVELATION 21)THE PEOPLE OF GOD (1-4)1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.As the vision of the general resurrection closes, a new vision immediately opens. John sees what he describes as a new heaven and a new earth (cf. Isa. 51:6; Ps. 102:26-27; Matt. 24:29; 2 Pet. 3:10). However, the old earth is not so much annihilated as reconstituted to become a new celestial orb. What John reports confirms a long established Judeo-Christian tradition. Salvation, in the biblical sense, is not just for mankind but for all creation (see, e.g., 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 8:21). All things are to be saved including the cosmos itself. 1 The Doctrine and Covenants also affirms this view of the earth: "It must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory; for after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father" (D&C 88:18-19). In order to withstand the full glory of God, the earth and its inhabitants will need to be entirely reconstructed."The end shall come, and the heaven and the earth shall be consumed and pass away, and there shall be a new heaven and a new earth. For all old things shall pass away, and all things shall become new, even the heaven and the earth, and all the fulness thereof, both men and beasts, the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea; and not one hair, neither mote, shall be lost, for it is the workmanship of mine hand" (D&C 29:23-25). That the universe or even the galaxy will pass away when the earth is renewed is unlikely. More likely a new heaven will manifest itself as the earth takes up its new position as a celestial sun.What strikes John about the new world is that "there [is] no more sea" (v. 1, KJV). The abode of chaos, the home of the satanic beast, the old seat over which the whore held sway, has vanished. Under the force of the Lamb's radiance, the source of Babylon's sea-borne luxuries and what helped feed and sustain her corruption has boiled into oblivion. But the sea and the abyss are one and the same. Therefore, the destruction of the sea represents the annihilation of the primeval deep, the home of malevolence and evil. Up to this point, it has dominated the world. As the stronghold of Satan's supporters, its existence mocked the hope of a complete victory and a complete sovereignty of the Lord. It has no place in the transformed world where all things spontaneously obey their Lord and their God. 2Previewing what he will explore more fully later, John introduces the central seat of celestial rule—the New Jerusalem. In this, John follows Zechariah 9:9-10. Many of the Old Testament prophets were well aware of the millennial Jerusalem and the splendor that it will acquire (see Isa. 54:11-14; 60:10-14; Hag. 2:7-9; Zech. 2:1-5. Moses 7:62-63 also focuses on the millennial New Jerusalem). The same theme is picked up by nonbiblical Jewish documents dating from the second century b.c., showing a clear belief in a new Jerusalem associated with the heavenly order. 3 John compares the beauty and purity of the city to that of a bride adorned for her husband. The Seer meticulously paints this picture, careful to catch just the right image. The dazzling whiteness of the bride's gown, mirroring her radiant purity, stands in contrast to the gaudy splendor of Babylon, which was exposed as nothing more than the seductive trappings of a decrepit and raddled whore. 4One point needs to be emphasized. At the center of John's new vision lies a city—a real city. John clearly makes this the heart of the vision. Heaven exists as a society. Joseph Smith explained that the "same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy" (D&C 130:2). The celestial kingdom is a community or system of communities presided over by a central city. Celestial beings, the church of the Firstborn, occupy these areas as families, for families make up communities. Thus, the ideal and perfect community is the eternal family of God. 5John records that "the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them" (v. 3, KJV). His statement echoes Ezekiel 48:35, which notes that the name of the eternal city is "The Lord is there" (KJV). The word John uses for "tabernacle" (Greek skn) translates the Hebrew mishkan.Mishkan means "tent." However, in a number of places in the Old Testament, it is used to denote God's personal presence and attention to Israel (see Lev. 26:11; Ezek. 37:27). 6 The Seer's statement thus emphasizes the very personal association that will be set up on the new earth between God and his children.The reason why such an association can be maintained is clearly stated: "They shall be his [God's] people" (v. 3, KJV). This fulfills the promise that God made with Israel at Sinai, which had been continuously renewed through his prophets (see Lev. 26:12; Jer. 7:23; 11:4; cf. Hosea 1:9. Note how the promise is renewed in Jer. 30:22; Ezek. 36:28; 37:23, 27; Zech. 8:8). The covenant found fulfillment in the Lord (see Rom. 9:25; 1 Pet. 2:10), and it continues today as part of the new and everlasting covenant. Out of heaven, John hears a great voice proclaiming the privileges of those who have sacrificed the things of the old world in hope of obtaining those of the new. While on earth, they felt themselves as little more than strangers and pilgrims seeking "a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (Heb. 11:16, KJV). 7 The blessing is spoken by none other than God himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Okay but what about his comment about it being out of order in the Book of Mormon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Okay this wasn't a ploy to get people to come to Christ.org which is another site owned by MoreGoodFoundation. I really do need help answering the question....but really would love to have more people visit the other site as well. The site is all about Christ...nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missingsomething Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think he meant because most of the bom takes place before christ's birth... and he is claiming that the bible says it happens after his 2nd coming My mind went to... we do not know God's timing... and things are often not literal in the scriptures ... Its so easy to pick one verse and turn it to mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Pam....do you have any of the LDS Institute manuals???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Pam....do you have any of the LDS Institute manuals????Behold, the manuals are online, for free, yo.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Seminaries and Institutes of ReligionSeriously, I think the question needs some clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 When Jesus says "Old things are done away, and all things have become new" (in the present tense), He is wrapping up a sermon very similar to the Sermon on the Mount wherein He explains a new and higher standard of living. He's not talking about the events spoken of in Revelation (which have not happened yet); He's talking about the fulfilling of the Mosaic Law (as He Himself explains later in 3 Nephi 15:3-10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think also we have had a similar question in the past...Why wording is different in the Bible and in the Book Of Mormon. Justice had answered it quite well in that Christ was speaking to two different peoples on both accounts. One before the atonement and one after the atonement. Thank you JUG...(not meant offensively) your answer helped quite a bit. It's hard trying to ask and answer in two different forums. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Many prophecies have multiple fulfillments. Joel prophecied of people receiving dreams and visions prior to the final days of destruction. Peter claimed that day was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, even though the sun was not darkened, nor did the moon turn to blood. IOW, Peter was saying it was partially fulfilled, as the complete fulfillment will not occur until a later time when people have visions AND the sun/moon are darkened. We get the same thing with the prophecies on Christ. Prophecies on him are partially fulfilled in his first coming in the flesh, and completely fulfilled in his second coming in glory. It may be that whatever this person is claiming may be this kind of issue, where a dual fulfillment is supposed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Okay but what about his comment about it being out of order in the Book of Mormon?Exactly what is out of order? It is not clear in the conversion within the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm going to close this thread as Ram has now posted on the other board to help answer the question. Thanks Ram for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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