exaltation

[marshac]

So what do you believe? Do you believe that you will become a god, or that you will become like god? The former indicating equivalency, the later not.

For me, this concept causes some serious raising of eyebrows

Clarifying comments or statements are also welcome. :)

[Palerider]

hey....check this out

Mormon Answers (LDS FAQ): The Divine Potential of Human Beings - or Do Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods?

[Guest tomk]

We will be just like God in every way.

It is God Himself that will make this possible.

Why do you have a problem with this idea?

[Guest tomk]

I should clarify -- we will choose this.

God will force no man to heaven. We must pursue it.

[marshac]

hey....check this out

Mormon Answers (LDS FAQ): The Divine Potential of Human Beings - or Do Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods?

Thanks- that was actually really really helpful and reassuring. One of the issues I have is that sometimes the elders use quotes from the BoM in order to illustrate that it's true- I appreciate how that link uses the Bible as a reference in order to back up and substantiate LDS beliefs.

When you read this-

Gospel Principles

And then look up those verses, it's not exactly reassuring. In fact, that whole page is less than clear what's going on. On first blush, it sounds like pure hubris on the part of man- the notion that someone like us could even begin to claim the same status as God. Now I see why there is a small "g" and not a "G". Seriously- that needs to be better defined. God <> god..... or for all you C++ goons, God != god.

Is my interpretation of what I just read correct?

[john doe]

There is a lot about the afterlife, conditions we will live in, and eternal progression that have not been revealed to us yet. There are lots of ideas out there, some of which I subscribe to, some of which I do not. Just remember that unless something can be backed up by canonized scripture, it is speculation and extrapolation by men.

[JohnnyRudick]

There is a lot about the afterlife, conditions we will live in, and eternal progression that have not been revealed to us yet. There are lots of ideas out there, some of which I subscribe to, some of which I do not. Just remember that unless something can be backed up by canonized scripture, it is speculation and extrapolation by men.

This is true.

Weather it be Joseph Smith Brigham Young or whom ever.

I have sen many a "person" get messed up (myself included) by standing on a quote of a general authority.

Most of the time they are "right on".

But sometimes they can lead us a little off.

For sound Doctrine, stick with the Standard Works of the Church.

When God sees fit, He will include the statements of what ever General Authority He wishes to include into Scripture.

When Anti Mormon types come at me any more I just first as "Book, Chapter and verse please." and go from there.

Bro. Rudick;-)

[Hemidakota]

As I don't believe every active member will become GOD or GODESS. It is the very Christ that chooses those who will sit with Him into the eternalties.

[Hemidakota]

This is true.

Weather it be Joseph Smith Brigham Young or whom ever.

I have sen many a "person" get messed up (myself included) by standing on a quote of a general authority.

Most of the time they are "right on".

But sometimes they can lead us a little off.

For sound Doctrine, stick with the Standard Works of the Church.

When God sees fit, He will include the statements of what ever General Authority He wishes to include into Scripture.

When Anti Mormon types come at me any more I just first as "Book, Chapter and verse please." and go from there.

Bro. Rudick;-)

If we wait for the church as a whole to become spiritually mature in our lifetime, it will not happen without the some 'cleansing first.' Those who are called in this life will obtain the mysteries or doctrines beyond what is given to the church as a whole. They will be ministered by either by a member of the Godhead or those who are called, whether it is annually or times when it is necessary.

Yes! I do agree, for there are items that some GAs taught is not right and require correction.

[Guest ceeboo]

So what do you believe? Do you believe that you will become a god, or that you will become like god? The former indicating equivalency, the later not.

For me, this concept causes some serious raising of eyebrows

Clarifying comments or statements are also welcome. :)

Hi marshac,

I am not LDS so I will simply say the following:

Clearly, IMHO , Joseph Smith and others teach that our God was once a mere man like you and I of a different planet before he was exalted to our God of this planet.

It is also , clear to me, that the teachings also suggest and encourage that Mormons live a good life so that you also may become a God of your own planet.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Guest Ceeboos_Boss]

Hi marshac,

I am not LDS so I will simply say the following:

Clearly, IMHO , Joseph Smith and others teach that our God was once a mere man like you and I of a different planet before he was exalted to our God of this planet.

It is also , clear to me, that the teachings also suggest and encourage that Mormons live a good life so that you also may become a God of your own planet.

Peace,

Ceeboo

I would really like some LDS input on this!:)

[FunkyTown]

Thanks- that was actually really really helpful and reassuring. One of the issues I have is that sometimes the elders use quotes from the BoM in order to illustrate that it's true- I appreciate how that link uses the Bible as a reference in order to back up and substantiate LDS beliefs.

When you read this-

Gospel Principles

And then look up those verses, it's not exactly reassuring. In fact, that whole page is less than clear what's going on. On first blush, it sounds like pure hubris on the part of man- the notion that someone like us could even begin to claim the same status as God. Now I see why there is a small "g" and not a "G". Seriously- that needs to be better defined. God <> god..... or for all you C++ goons, God != god.

Is my interpretation of what I just read correct?

You are absolutely correct. A Righteous King who elevates an adopted son to Baron is not made lesser by the decree, even though he elevates another.

[john doe]

Hi marshac,

I am not LDS so I will simply say the following:

Clearly, IMHO , Joseph Smith and others teach that our God was once a mere man like you and I of a different planet before he was exalted to our God of this planet.

It is also , clear to me, that the teachings also suggest and encourage that Mormons live a good life so that you also may become a God of your own planet.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Instead of tossing bombs indiscriminately, could you bring some references to the table so that we have something to base the conversation on?

[beefche]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi marshac,

I am not LDS so I will simply say the following:

Clearly, IMHO , Joseph Smith and others teach that our God was once a mere man like you and I of a different planet before he was exalted to our God of this planet.

It is also , clear to me, that the teachings also suggest and encourage that Mormons live a good life so that you also may become a God of your own planet.

Peace,

Ceeboo

I'll try to answer this.

I've been a member of this church for 20 years. I've been an endowed member for 15 years (meaning I've participated in the temple ordinances).

I have not heard a General Authority of the church teach these things. I have heard that our church teaches these from people in and out of the church, but never from a General Authority.

My understanding is that we can be exalted--which means that we can have all that God now has. Exaltation is different than just being saved. I can be sealed to my husband for all eternity--the bonds of that union will not be severed upon death. If we are exalted, then we can continue to progress (which includes having children). I have the opportunity to become a priestess and queen. I will not rise above God as He is God and my Father. However, I am a joint-heir with Christ and as such am able to inherit all that He would inherit as a result of being God's Son.

I do not understand all the implications of that. Does this mean that I will be a god? I don't know...it sure sounds like it. But, I'm too wrapped up in the here and now to seriously consider myself as a potential god.

Regarding the supposition that God was a mere man....that has never been taught to me. I've had heard the little couplet: as man is now, God once was. But, that has not been taught to me in church on Sunday nor in any temple session. So, to answer that question: was God a man? I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised or dismayed or even lose my faith if I found out that He once was a mere man who frequented an online community and watched TV (). I accepted Him as my God, my King, and my Savior. As such, He is to me more than just a man. I do not view Him as a man in the sense of of the men I know here on earth. I view Him as a man in that His gender is male and He has a manly body.

Finally regarding the issue of faith vs. works. God has provided a way for us to be saved--He gave us His only Son, Jesus Christ, to be our Savior. He is the only way and truth to salvation. Period. God also made it very clear that He expects us to live a good life--to live His commandments, to do good for others, to do things to qualify ourselves. Otherwise, IMO, why have commandments? If all that is necessary is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, then why would God command us to do things? I cannot receive exaltation based on my works alone. However, I also cannot receive exaltation if I choose to disobey God's commandments.

I hope that answers some of your questions.

[MobyMule]

I would really like some LDS input on this!:)

That God was once a man. Well Christ did it why not the Father? mere mortal is an overstatement. The details we don't know.

I have never been taught that I would receive a planet of my own. That is through peoples own interpretations of the doctrine taught. It is possible? I guess anything is possible wth God huh? If we come Joint-Heirs with Christ and recieve ALL the Father has what does that mean? Well I guess we will find out won't we.

[JohnnyRudick]

Hi marshac,

I am not LDS so I will simply say the following:

Clearly, IMHO , Joseph Smith and others teach that our God was once a mere man like you and I of a different planet before he was exalted to our God of this planet.

It is also , clear to me, that the teachings also suggest and encourage that Mormons live a good life so that you also may become a God of your own planet.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Yes, I agree as far as you go here.

But.

You MUST remember.

No mattrer how many worlds on might become a "G"od of,

we have Our Heavenly Father with Whom we are responsible to.

He will always be our Great God of all.

That will never change.

Bro. Rudick

Edited February 26, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After thought;-) (I always seem to do this:-(----)

[Guest ceeboo]

Instead of tossing bombs indiscriminately, could you bring some references to the table so that we have something to base the conversation on?

" Tossing Bombs indiscriminately " ????

" References so you have something to base the conversation on " ???

Okay my dear Moderator friend :) Here you Go

BTW, You are LDS, aren't you????

(Link to Anti-LDS website removed by moderator)

Peace,

Ceeboo

Edited February 26, 2009 by john doe
Removed link to Anti-LDS source. Please read the rules before posting this content.

[hordak]

.

Regarding the supposition that God was a mere man....that has never been taught to me. I've had heard the little couplet: as man is now, God once was. But, that has not been taught to me in church on Sunday nor in any temple session. .

Really? It's part of Gospel principles class and in the manual.

[Guest ceeboo]

Really? It's part of Gospel principles class and in the manual.

Not sure about Gospel principles ( never saw it ) But I can tell you that it is a HIGHLIGHT in the Mormonism Encyclopedia ( Says it is one of JS's best sermons ) and Cleary is taught by JS himself.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[beefche]

Really? It's part of Gospel principles class and in the manual.

I've never attended Gospel principles, so I looked up the manual online. This is what it says:

What Kind of Being Is God?

Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). God’s body, however, is perfected and glorified, with a glory beyond all description.

God is perfect. He is a God of love, mercy, charity, truth, power, faith, knowledge, and judgment. He has all power. He knows all things. He is full of goodness.

All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god. He has said, “Behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

I reviewed our current RS/Priesthood manual and didn't see anything that said God was like us before He became God.

Hordak, can you be more specific and show me what you are thinking of? If I've been taught that, then I wasn't paying attention. I view God as man in the sense that He is male and has a manly body. That I've been taught. But I seriously don't recall ever being taught that he was once like you or I. The only "lesson" with which I'm familiar is from the King Follett discourse, which is not necessarily doctrine (otherwise it would be cannonized).

[beefche]

Not sure about Gospel principles ( never saw it ) But I can tell you that it is a HIGHLIGHT in the Mormonism Encyclopedia ( Says it is one of JS's best sermons ) and Cleary is taught by JS himself.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Ceebs, if I may be so bold and ask, if this is true, why is it disturbing? If the Catholic Church released a statement that said essentially the same thing, would it rock your faith? I'm not trying to be contentious...I want to understand why this disturbs so many people.

[hordak]

I've never attended Gospel principles, so I looked up the manual online. This is what it says:

What Kind of Being Is God?

Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). God’s body, however, is perfected and glorified, with a glory beyond all description.

God is perfect. He is a God of love, mercy, charity, truth, power, faith, knowledge, and judgment. He has all power. He knows all things. He is full of goodness.

All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god. He has said, “Behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

I reviewed our current RS/Priesthood manual and didn't see anything that said God was like us before He became God.

Hordak, can you be more specific and show me what you are thinking of? If I've been taught that, then I wasn't paying attention. I view God as man in the sense that He is male and has a manly body. That I've been taught. But I seriously don't recall ever being taught that he was once like you or I. The only "lesson" with which I'm familiar is from the King Follett discourse, which is not necessarily doctrine (otherwise it would be cannonized).

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348).

This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46).

Exaltation Ch. 47

Gospel Principles

[Guest ceeboo]

Ceebs, if I may be so bold and ask, if this is true, why is it disturbing? If the Catholic Church released a statement that said essentially the same thing, would it rock your faith? I'm not trying to be contentious...I want to understand why this disturbs so many people.

My dear friend :)

I will do my vert best here to return the same courtesy and respect that you have so graciously given me on several accounts :)

I am not trying to be contentious either and maybe I should steer clear of these threads.

Why is it disturbing??? It is more than disturbing!!!!! To have someone claim that MY GOD ( Maker of all, All powerful, Creator of EVERYTHING ) was once a mere man of another planet JUST LIKE YOU AND I ( MAKING US EQUAL IN EVERY ASPECT ) and then EARNED the position of God of this earth is, well ????????????

Sorry, I hope that did not offend but PLEASE understand how offensive that teaching is to many of your NON LDS friends.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[beefche]

My dear friend :)

I will do my vert best here to return the same courtesy and respect that you have so graciously given me on several accounts :)

I am not trying to be contentious either and maybe I should steer clear of these threads.

Why is it disturbing??? It is more than disturbing!!!!! To have someone claim that MY GOD ( Maker of all, All powerful, Creator of EVERYTHING ) was once a mere man of another planet JUST LIKE YOU AND I ( MAKING US EQUAL IN EVERY ASPECT ) and then EARNED the position of God of this earth is, well ????????????

Sorry, I hope that did not offend but PLEASE understand how offensive that teaching is to many of your NON LDS friends.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Fair enough. And please know that any replies I make are made in the same spirit--I just want to understand (and I don't want to keep typing that with each reply. )

So, does it bother you that Jesus was a man on earth with you and I? He was a man...a perfect man, but a mortal man nonetheless. If Jesus was a man, why is it more than disturbing to think of God the Father once as a man?

And I don't think of God or Jesus as equal to me even though they were men. Jesus is God and although was mortal for a short time, He was still (and remains) superior to me. I'm sorry, I just don't understand how being mortal at one time makes He and I equal.

Edited February 26, 2009 by beefche
another thought hit me...

[beefche]

Exaltation Ch. 47

Gospel Principles

Thanks hordak. I'll be honest...didn't know that was in any manual. I've never had a problem with that concept, but just don't ever recall actually being taught that. Still don't, but I have no problem accepting that principle.

I will pay closer attention next time I'm in the temple to see if any of that is taught there as well--there's so much symbolism that it's likely I'm either sleeping...er...pondering other things and missed it.