Does God want members of His Church to prosper financially?

[WillowTheWhisp]

“blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit,” - isn't that a bit of a misquote by Brother Brigham? The scripture actually says "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3)

[Snow]

Just read the “book” The Science of Getting Rich GOD’S Way. It is nothing more than nonsensical, untrue, drivel.

It isn’t a book. It’s a typed PDF of about 60 pages in large font.

The forward says that it had it origin in scripture and a book written 100 years ago by Wallace Wattles called The Science of Getting Rich. That is deceptive. Getting Rich God’s Way doesn’t just have its origins in Wattles book. It is, in large measure, a cut and paste job from Wattles. Sentence after sentence and paragraph after paragraph is simply appropriated and dropped into the PDF - sometimes with a word or two changed, sometimes not even that. When copying and pasting the PDF author brazenly neglects to put in direct quotes in quotation marks or cite the reference.

The author (plagiarizer) claims that he normally charges $29.95 for the PDF. Take a guess how many he is selling at $29.95 as he has resorted to giving them away free.

4 The author (plagiarizer) claims that he has a seminar that normally costs $500 but that is is giving that too away for free. Take a guess how many he has sold at $500.

What is the big secret or trick of getting rich - according to the PDF author? I quote:

“Thought is the only power that can produce tangible riches from original

substance. This stuff, from which all things are made, is a substance which has

been commanded by God to obey our thoughts. A thought of a form in this

substance produces the form of that thought.

Original substance moves according to thoughts. Every form and process you see

in nature is the visible expression of a thought in original substance, and that

thought usually originated from God. As a thought is communicated to original

substance the formless stuff takes on the form of that thought. That is the way

things were and are organized and created.”

What does that mean you ask. It means that if you want a DVD player, you don’t need to go to the trouble of actually getting a job, earning some dough and actually buying a DVD player. You just have to think about it:

“If you want a DVD player, hold the mental image of it with the most positive

certainty that it is being made, or is on its way to you. After forming the thought, have the most

absolute and certain faith that the DVD player is coming. Never speak of it in any

other way than being certain it is on its way, and is sure to arrive. Claim that DVD

player as already yours.

That DVD player will be brought to you, by the power of God and original

substance, acting upon the minds of men and women. If you live in Arizona, it

may be that a person will be brought from Japan, Taiwan, or Korea to engage in

some transaction which will result in you getting what you want.”

Pure unmitigated malarkly. That’s hardly in accordance with God’s plan. Everyone with a brain know what the real deal is. “By the sweat of thy face thou eat bread.” You don’t think about the bread and someone delivers it to you. You work for something and earn it through your labor - not imagining it out of “original substance: from the form of the thought.

Here’s the test:

Take 200 people. Tell half that for the next two weeks, they are to imagine themselves getting a new iPhone with a two-year ATT phone and date service. They are to be certain about it - to believe that it will truly happen, out of “original substance.”

Now take the other half. Tell them to go back to their jobs and earn a living for the next two weeks. After payday they are to go to the mall and enter the Apple Store. When an Apple employee asks if they need help, they are to ask for an iPhone, sign the ATT contract and give the Apple Store the requisite money.

After two weeks compare the two groups. Does ANYONE doubt that if people did as instructed the number of people in the first group with new iPhones and contracts will be zero and that the number of people in the second group will be about 100?

This kind of mumbo-jumbo wishful thinking appeals to certain kinds of people: The uneducated, the stupid, the lazy, the desperate and the infirm.

The rest of the world has been though the Enlightenment and knows much better. If you want financial independence, you go to school, get educated, get a job, work hard, achieve responsibility, get promoted, or develop a talent, or skill, or charisma or good/service that other’s desire. They sell that that skill or good for money.

Lazy and stupid people don’t want to bother with all that. They simply want it and that’s why they say lazy and stupid.

[WillowTheWhisp]

If you want financial independence, you go to school, get educated, get a job, work hard, achieve responsibility, get promoted, or develop a talent, or skill, or charisma or good/service that other’s desire. They sell that that skill or good for money.

This is exactly what the church encourages people to do isn't it? The church doesn't say "You are poor, be thankful for that and be happy to be poor. It's a blessing. You'll get to Heaven." The church says strive to improve yourself, get an eduction, work hard, lift yourself up out of povery.

[Snow]

This is exactly what the church encourages people to do isn't it? The church doesn't say "You are poor, be thankful for that and be happy to be poor. It's a blessing. You'll get to Heaven." The church says strive to improve yourself, get an eduction, work hard, lift yourself up out of povery.

Yes - that's exactly what the Church does. The Church, it most all it does is very pragmatic - focusing on the practical and hard work and persistence and dedication - not on the pie-in-the-sky theoretical or imaginary.

It boggles the mind that there are those on this thread that are agreeing with the PDF writer that his (plagiarized) ideas are in accordance with the Gospel. We, in the Church, put our shoulder to the wheel and push along. We don't imagine that the hand cart will magically be formed out of original substance and delivered to Salt Lake for us.

When a Church builds a temple, do the Brethren imagine it out of "original substance" and then dedicate it or do they work diligently to instruct the saints, collect tithes and offerings, hire an architect, hire a contract and build the thing, by the sweat of the brow?

[Elgama]

Yes - that's exactly what the Church does. The Church, it most all it does is very pragmatic - focusing on the practical and hard work and persistence and dedication - not on the pie-in-the-sky theoretical or imaginary.

thank you its what i have been putting less elegantly....... I know my best professors did not make huge wages but without their dedication some people that now do wouldn't

-Charley

[Snow]

thank you its what i have been putting less elegantly....... I know my best professors did not make huge wages but without their dedication some people that now do wouldn't

-Charley

Did you go to BYU?

I was just thinking about that. With only a few exceptions until recently BYU didn't offer many doctorate level degrees - not because the Church doesn't believe in post grad education but it has historically chosen to put it's resources into nuts and bolts, hard-working, foundation practical kinds of education that people build their lives and societies.

You'll also note that BYU does not offer a single class named: Think and Grow Rich.

[sgrGODSway]

Snow

Of course you conveniently skipped the part of the book on the need to take action. You can take things out of context if you like, but that's just not right. I don't tell anyone there is no work involved in making the Laws work. YOU MUST TAKE ACTION...and I say so.

I also state very clearly that the book is based on my take on what Wallace Wattles says...giving more emphasis to what has been skipped over concerning God's part in the whole process. It is a public domain work that has been updated and clarified for Christian readers.

Let people read the book in full and let them develop their own opinions. Why the positive feedback from readers? Because they know that there is truth in the book...and unlike what you are telling people...I have a whole chapter on the effort necessary to make the whole process work.

You are right about one thing though. The book is only about 60 pages in 12 pt font. Why? Because it doesn't take 100---200---or even 300+ pages to explain how the process works. Isn't it great to know that God's Laws are simple enough for anyone to understand them? God's Laws aren't only for the scholar.

BTW...I have taught the workshop for more than $500, but I have chosen to give the book away to get the book in the hands of more people. My goal isn't to make money selling the book. My goal is to have others read it. The information has changed my life! I used to be a retail manager working 60-80+ hours a week. Because of God's blessings and obeying the Laws I haven't needed to work for anyone in almost 3 years (It will be 3 years the last week of April 2009) and I only put on average 4-8 hours per week into money making activites. I give the glory to God for that! I have seen several other people put the information in the book to good use and their lifes have benefitted from it...sometimes even more than my own. How cool is that?! That is why I have done what I have done.

Edited March 21, 2009 by sgrGODSway

[Snow]

Of course you conveniently skipped the part of the book on the need to take action. You can take things out of context if you like but that's just not right. I don't tell anyone there is no work involved in making the Laws work. YOU MUST TAKE ACTION...and I say so.

Bull.

Here's the whole DVD quote:

"Just because you are to cause the creation of your riches from the original

formless substance, which permeates all your environment, it does not follow that

they are to take shape from the atmosphere and come into being before your

eyes.

If you want a DVD player, for instance, I do not mean you are to impress the

thought of a DVD player on original substance until the DVD player is formed,

without hands, in the room where you are sitting, or elsewhere. If you want a

DVD player, hold the mental image of it with the most positive certainty that it is

being made, or is on its way to you. After forming the thought, have the most

absolute and certain faith that the DVD player is coming. Never speak of it in any

other way than being certain it is on its way, and is sure to arrive. Claim that DVD

player as already yours.

That DVD player will be brought to you, by the power of God and original

substance, acting upon the minds of men and women. If you live in Arizona, it

may be that a person will be brought from Japan, Taiwan, or Korea to engage in

some transaction which will result in you getting what you want. If so, the whole

matter will be as much to that person's advantage as it is to yours.

Remember that original formless substance, and God's Spiritual Influence, is

through all, in all, communicating with all, and has the ability to influence all. The

desire of the original formless substance, to be obedient to God and His children,

has caused the creation of all the DVD players already made, and it can cause the

creation of millions more, and will do so, whenever people set the original

substance in motion by desire and faith, while obeying the Laws that cause the

DVD players to be created.

You can certainly have a DVD player in your house, and it is just as certain that

you can have any other thing which you want, and which you will use, for the

advancement of your own life and the lives of others.

You do not need to hesitate to ask largely. It is God's pleasure to give you all the

good He has for you. Jesus said,“...it is your Father's pleasure to give you the

kingdom.”

God and the original formless substance want you to live all the life that is

possible and inherent in you, and want you to have all that you can use for the

living of the most abundant life of which you are capable."

You ought to be ashamed of yourself... coming in here and promoting this plagiarized drivel as God's plan.

[Elgama]

Did you go to BYU?

I was just thinking about that. With only a few exceptions until recently BYU didn't offer many doctorate level degrees - not because the Church doesn't believe in post grad education but it has historically chosen to put it's resources into nuts and bolts, hard-working, foundation practical kinds of education that people build their lives and societies.

You'll also note that BYU does not offer a single class named: Think and Grow Rich.

nope lol went to what is now called Winchester University - we had some men that were top of their fields in History and Archaeology, not to mention Colin Firth's parents........ however they had chosen smaller university to be more fulfilled with their teaching and to have more contact with students.. The nature of my course meant everyone was there for academic fulfillment and not financial gain - Archaeology is not exactly the best paid profession in the world but you know what don't know many with the job who are unhappy, frustrated or stressed, its a very relaxed way to work

-Charley

[Snow]

nope lol went to what is now called Winchester University - we had some men that were top of their fields in History and Archaeology, not to mention Colin Firth's parents........ however they had chosen smaller university to be more fulfilled with their teaching and to have more contact with students.. The nature of my course meant everyone was there for academic fulfillment and not financial gain - Archaeology is not exactly the best paid profession in the world but you know what don't know many with the job who are unhappy, frustrated or stressed, its a very relaxed way to work

-Charley

Cool!

[sgrGODSway]

Snow

Easy does it with the insults :-)

Quote from Chapter 11:

"Thought is the creative power, or the impelling force, which causes the original formless substance to act. Thinking in a certain way will bring riches to you, but you must not rely on thought alone, paying no attention to personal action.

We have not yet reached the stage of development in which we can create directly from the formless substance, without nature's processes or the work of human hands. People must not only think, but by personal action must supplement that thought.

By thought you can cause the gold in the center of the mountains to be driven toward you, but it will not mine itself, refine itself, coin itself into double eagles, and come rolling along the roads seeking its way into your pocket".

[Elgama]

Throughout this thread this song keeps coming to mind so figured i;d post it

I didnt know when I was lucky

Discontented feeling bad

Filled with envy

For possessions other people had

I found my pride had always hurt me

Fought the world to gain control

Not realising

I was sitting on a beach of gold

Oh lord Im a poor man

With all the riches I can hold

Im a beggar

And Im sitting on a beach of gold

The problems I encountered

Gave me strength helped me sustain

To know the pleasure

First I had to cure the pain

When I was searching for solutions

I found the answer lay in me

Im a drifter

But Im drifting on a silver sea

Oh lord Im a poor man

With all the riches I can hold

Im a beggar

And Im sitting on a beach of gold

I didnt have courage

My life was as dark as night

When alone in the darkness

I saw the brightest light

Let the light shine down

Are you out there now on empty

Feel youve nothing left to give

Sick of trying

Have you lost the will to live?

Dont be drowning in the shallows

With the beach so near at hand

Hear the voice say

Stand up get up

And join me on the gilded sand

Come and join me on the beach

With all the riches I can hold

Cause Im a beggar

And Im sitting on a beach of gold

Oh lord Im a poor man

With all the riches I can hold

Im a beggar

Im sitting on a beach of gold

My children my salvation

The father to this man

Theyre my teachers

Playing on the golden sand

With my family all around me

Ive all the riches I can hold

Im a beggar

Sitting on a beach of gold

Oh lord Im a poor man

With all the riches I can hold

Im a beggar

Sitting on a beach of gold

Mike & The Mechanics lyrics

[sgrGODSway]

Snow, earlier you said:

"Bull. What are we? Idiots?

Explain the law that made Saddam Hussein and Bernie Madoff filthy rich and made Joseph Smith and my grandparents dirt poor".

Throughout this post you have mostly posted comments like that that really don't help anyone.

That is about as thoughtful as the person who says there must not be a God because people are starving, killed, tortured, or deal with other negative circumstances in their lives.

Calling people stupid, myself or anyone else, who agree with what's written in the book is just plain ignorant.

If, in your mind, we are off track lovingly convince us...but please don't insult us. You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar :-)

Thank you. I hope you consider your tone as you comment. There is no need to get nasty. We are all...you included...doing the best we can to help others:-)

[Elgama]

By thought you can cause the gold in the center of the mountains to be driven toward you, but it will not mine itself, refine itself, coin itself into double eagles, and come rolling along the roads seeking its way into your pocket".

surely though if you are living your life as the Lord commands that can happen if it is what you need or require.

I don't know how many times I have been struggling and needed help and it has happened whether that help be financial or emotional

-Charley

[sgrGODSway]

Elgama

You are correct. Sometimes God does that because of a special need. Most of the time He requires us to "do something." But rest assured He will always make up the difference if we have faith that He will.

[Snow]

Snow, earlier you said:

"Bull. What are we? Idiots?

Explain the law that made Saddam Hussein and Bernie Madoff filthy rich and made Joseph Smith and my grandparents dirt poor".

Throughout this post you have mostly posted comments like that that really don't help anyone.

That is about as thoughtful as the person who says there must not be a God because people are starving, killed, tortured, or deal with other negative circumstances in their lives.

Calling people stupid, myself or anyone else, who agree with what's written in the book is just plain ignorant.

If, in your mind, we are off track lovingly convince us...but please don't insult us. You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar :-)

Thank you. I hope you consider your tone as you comment. There is no need to get nasty. We are all...you included...doing the best we can to help others:-)

Alright - let's cut right to the chase.

Your PDF is called The Science of Getting Rich God's Way. Where's the science. Produce it. What evidence do you have that:

"There is an original substance from which all things are made, and which,

in its original state permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the

universe. A thought, in this substance, produces the thing that is imaged by the

thought. A person can form things in their thought, and, by impressing their

thought upon formless substance, can cause the thing they think about

to be created."???? And that a person who wants a DVD can get one by thinking about it as if he already has it?

Scientific proof please.

I'd be willing to bet that you have none; only the kind of "proof" offered in your PDF - like... yoiu know this guy and this guy taught the secret to someone else and that someone else your friend knows needed a rug and a coal stove and so thought them up according to the principles of "original substance" and lo and behold - he got them... and then a bay window to.

Be honest - you have no such friend who had no such student who got a stove and rug. Isn't that so. It's untrue and we both know it...., which by the way I can prove.

I stand by what I said. This kind of malarky appeals to the stupid, the lazy, the uneducated and the desperate.... and NO, you are not helping others. You're preaching nonsense. You should be preaching education and hard work.

[Connie]

A second principle to guide our progress to become one is to be humble. Pride is the great enemy of unity. You have seen and felt its terrible effects. Just days ago I watched as two people—good people—began with a mild disagreement. It started as a discussion of what was true but became a contest about who was right. Voices become gradually louder. Faces became a little more flushed. Instead of talking about the issue, people began talking about themselves, giving evidence why their view, given their great ability and background, was more likely to be right.

You would have felt alarm as I did. We have seen the life-destroying effects of such tragic conflict. You and I know people who left the fellowship of the Saints over injured pride.

Happily I am seeing more and more skillful peacemakers who calm troubled waters before harm is done. You could be one of those peacemakers, whether you are in the conflict or an observer.

One way I have seen it done is to search for anything on which we agree. To be that peacemaker, you need to have the simple faith that as children of God, with all our differences, it is likely that in a strong position we take, there will be elements of truth. The great peacemaker, the restorer of unity, is the one who finds a way to help people see the truth they share. That truth they share is always greater and more important to them than their differences. You can help yourself and others to see that common ground if you ask for help from God and then act. He will answer your prayer to help restore peace, as He has mine.

That same principle applies as we build unity with people who are from vastly different backgrounds. The children of God have more in common than they have differences. And even the differences can be seen as an opportunity. God will help us see a difference in someone else not as a source of irritation but as a contribution. The Lord can help you see and value what another person brings which you lack. More than once the Lord has helped me see His kindness in giving me association with someone whose difference from me was just the help I needed. That has been the Lord’s way of adding something I lacked to serve Him better.

- Pres. Henry B. Eyring

In light of these inspiring words from a member of the first presidency, i am going to list the things in sgrGODSway's book that i feel are consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1. There is abundance (see D&C 104:17).

2. We are to counsel with the Lord in all our doings (Alma 37:37).

3. We are to thank the Lord in all things (D&C 59:7).

These are the three that pop immediately to my head, there may be more. But then i was reading the book to find what was right in it and not what was wrong. I still continue to have many questions.

sgrGODSway: I don't know if you've done much study on the law of consecration and the concept of Zion but do you feel these laws are consistent with that?

[sgrGODSway]

Connie

I do. All I am sharing is how to be, do, and have everything we need to be, do, and have to reach or greatest potential. When we are the best we can be, and we help others become the best they can be, we are doing the best we can right now. I feel that we are our brothers keepers. That's WHY I wrote the book. I am sharing something that helps others AND DOESN'T conflict with the Gospel.

Acquiring wealth just to stock pile it isn't a very good use of money. It is to bless lives, and it's ok if yours is one of those lives that is blessed.

Let's think about consecration. When everyone does their very best there is always more than enough for all. It's only when people get competitive (selfish) or lazy that this system doesn't work. Being competitive and lazy IS NOT GOD's WAY. When everyone gives their all, you have a city like Enoch. Our talents and abilities get combined with the talents and abilities of everyone when we live the Law of Consecration. Some day we'll try living that Law again and God's people will do it successfully.

Here is what I said in the Preface and I mean it:

"In fact I could have given my book the title How To Create The Life You Really Want Using God's Help and that would have been very appropriate."

This is what the book is about. This post is "Does God want members of His Church to prosper financially?", but the book teaches "how to create the life you really want using God's help" as well. Most of the same Laws I share in the book apply to health, relationships, etc...as well as to acquiring money. It's the process of creation, and chances are we know this at a spiritual level. Why? Because chances are pretty good that we helped Jehovah and Michael in the work of organizing and creating the world we live in. We just don't remember it all. I honestly don't think creating the earth was a struggle. I think it all came very naturally because we had Jehovah guiding the way and teaching the process of organization and creation.

The Laws of creation didn't change when we came to earth, and when the veil gets lifted we'll realize that. How we use our free agency will determine, for the most part, the kind of life we live. We create a lot more in our life than we realize. We create our life and others create theirs, and some choose to do good and some choose to do evil. Hence why often bad things happen to good people...plus some of it is just a part of our mortal experience. We "taste the bitter so we can know the sweet."

When we realize how much influence we really have over our personal lives, and we understand God's Laws of Creation, hopefully we'll use that knowledge to do His will...and develop ourselves and serve others. I am just trying to bring an awareness of these Laws to others. I lived 37 years before I was truly aware of them. I am 40 now and my life as very different...in a very good way!

Edited March 22, 2009 by sgrGODSway

[sgrGODSway]

friend (frnd)

n.

1. A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.

2. A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.

3. A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.

4. One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement

[solomon-helaman]

Here is a great clip about creating.

Hopefully it works. You can also find it by going to lds.org and clicking on the mormon messages.

[sgrGODSway]

That video is GREAT! It sums up the message of the book I wrote very well. I hope everyone who reads this post checks out the video!

solomon-helaman - THANK YOU!

[Snow]

That video is GREAT! It sums up the message of the book I wrote very well. I hope everyone who reads this post checks out the video!

solomon-helaman - THANK YOU!

Yeah - except your PDF is about getting rich by thinking about it and President Uchtdork's message was about becoming an instrument in the hand of the Lord - by becoming a mother, by bringing smiles and happiness to others, by developing your talents, by being of compassionate service to others.

Are you not going to address the issue of proof of your claims for your false assertion that you have a friend that taught your method to a student who then wished for a rug and stove and later a bay window and then got them?

[solomon-helaman]

I propose that we ignore snow's nonsensical comments if you have not already done so. What a headache.

[solomon-helaman]

I was told earlier that I misquoted Brigham Young. That person can go to the reference that I quoted from.

Here is a new quote from him, and a reference. Someone else was asking how sgr's book deals with the law of consecration and a zion society.

The Order of Enoch—Study of Law—How to Become Rich.

Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered at the General Conference, in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Monday Morning, April 7, 1873

"Here is Horace S. Eldredge, he is one of our wealthy men. What did he have when he came here? Nothing that I know of, except just enough to get here with his family. William Jennings has been called a millionaire. What was he worth when be came here? He had comparatively little. Now he is one of our wealthy men. William H. Hooper is another of our wealthy men. He is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. How much had he to pay as surplus when he came here. He could pay no surplus, for he was worth nothing; but he is now wealthy. If he had gone to California I believe he would have been poor today.

"There is any amount of property, and gold and silver in the earth and on the earth, and the Lord gives to this one and that one—the wicked as well as the righteous—to see what they will do with it, but it all belongs to him. He has handed over a goodly portion to this people, and, through our faith, patience and industry, we have made us good, comfortable homes here, and there are many who are tolerably well off, and if they were in many parts of the world they would be called wealthy. But it is not ours, and all we have to do is to try and find out what the Lord wants us to do with what we have in our possession, and then go and do it. If we step beyond this, or to the right or to the left, we step into an illegitimate train of business. Our legitimate business is to do what the Lord wants us to do with that which he bestows upon us, and dispose of it just as he dictates, whether it is to give all, one-tenth, or the surplus. I was present at the time the revelation came for the brethren to give their surplus property into the hands of the Bishops for the building up of Zion, but I never knew a man yet who had a dollar of surplus property. No matter how much one might have he wanted all he had for himself, for his children, his grandchildren, and so forth.

"If we are disposed to enter into covenant one with another, and have an agreement made according to the laws of our land, and we are disposed to put our property into the hands of trustees, and work as we are directed—eat, drink, sleep, ride, walk, talk, study, school our children, our middle-aged and our aged, and learn the arts and sciences, the laws of the Priesthood, the laws of life, anatomy, physic and anything and everything useful upon the earth, the Lord has not the least objection in the world, and would be perfectly willing for us to do it, and I should like, right well, for us to try it. I know how to start such a society, right in this city, and how to make its members rich. I would go to now, and buy out the poorest ward in this city, and then commence with men and women who have not a dollar in the world. Bring them here from England, or any part of the earth, set them down in this ward and put them to work, and in five years we would begin to enter other wards, and we would buy this house and that house, and the next house, and we would add ward to ward until we owned the whole city, every dollar's worth of property there is in it. We could do this, and let the rich go to California to get gold, and we would buy their property. Would you like to know how to do this? I can tell you in a very few words—never want a thing you cannot get, live within your means, manufacture that which you wear, and raise that which you eat. Raise every calf and lamb; raise the chickens, and have your eggs, make your butter and cheese, and always have a little to spare. The first year we raise a crop, and we have more than we want. We buy nothing, we sell a little. The next year we raise more; we buy nothing, and we sell more. In this way we could pile up the gold and silver and in twenty years a hundred families working like this could buy out their neighbors. I see men who earn four, five, ten or fifteen dollars a day and spend every dime of it. Such men spend their means foolishly, they waste it instead of taking care of it."

He goes on to say that we should study out the laws of the land. I would suggest that he makes that suggestion because it is as we obey eternal laws we become rich. Before you say I have a misquote go read the reference.

[Snow]

I propose that we ignore snow's nonsensical comments if you have not already done so. What a headache.

I'd challenge you to demonstrate that what I posted is nonsensical but frankly we both know you can't... hence you resorting to labeling rather than demonstrating it... and if I had to guess, I say that solomon-helaman and the plagiarist are the same guy or are related.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Snow