Taking The Sacrament

[TannersDad]

Our Bishop stood up yesterday after we had taken the Sacrament and stressed to us the importance of taking the sacrament with our right hand.

While I have heard that this is encouraged I have never heard it before in a church lesson or from the pulpit. Is this really church doctrine? If it is why is it not taught more effectively?

[Outshined]

I've never heard it described as doctrinal, just traditional. Many consider it to be disrespectful to ude the left hand for the sacrament. When I was in the Middle East, it was considered rude to touch another person with your left hand.

More discrimination against the left-handers, I suppose. It's handism!

[Traveler]

I was taught this as a child but I believe it is more tradition than necessary doctrine. I would advise you have a private discussion with your bishop to determine if this is personal preference or direction by authority. If it is personal preference I would advise you send an letter of gentle inquire to your stake president. If it still remains personal preference and not direction by authority then I suggest you send an other letter of geltle inquire to the brothern (apostles). I suggest you understand the direction you are given. If your biship or stake president indicate that the first presidency has clearified the issue they you can understand it to be doctrine. You may ask for the date of the letter from the brothern so when you teach the doctrine you have reference.

I believe that should you find direction by authority of the brothern a little different from your bishop that you not be concerned - unless your bishop will not accept direction from authority on the matter. It is impossible to understand why your bishop made the request.

The Traveler

[Blessed]

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper. I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

[yaanufs]

I think I'd rather my kids used their left hand for taking the sacrament. They use their right hand for, what seems like constantly, picking their noses.

Yes, they do taste the fruit of their efforts.

No, they don't seem to take any notice when we tell them not to do it.

Left hand is better for all in the congregation I think.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Outshined@Jan 31 2005, 09:28 AM

I've never heard it described as doctrinal, just traditional. Many consider it to be disrespectful to ude the left hand for the sacrament. When I was in the Middle East, it was considered rude to touch another person with your left hand.

More discrimination against the left-handers, I suppose. It's handism!

I believe this is because Islam, which has an excruciatingly detailed set of traditions on how to relieve yourself (as opposed to only one passage in the Bible), mandates the use of the left hand to wipe yourself. With a rock.

Frankly, after reading some of the Hadith on poopin', I'm not terribly inclined to shake either hand of a traditional Muslim.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 01:08 PM

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper. I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

I wonder how important it will be to us when the Lord choses if we go on his right hand or his left.

Matt. 25: 32-34

32 And before him shall be gathered all anations: and he shall bseparate them one from another, as a cshepherd divideth his dsheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his aright• hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright• hand, Come, ye bblessed of my Father, cinherit the dkingdom• prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Outshined]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Jan 31 2005, 02:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Jan 31 2005, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Outshined@Jan 31 2005, 09:28 AM

I've never heard it described as doctrinal, just traditional. Many consider it to be disrespectful to ude the left hand for the sacrament. When I was in the Middle East, it was considered rude to touch another person with your left hand.

More discrimination against the left-handers, I suppose. It's handism!

I believe this is because Islam, which has an excruciatingly detailed set of traditions on how to relieve yourself (as opposed to only one passage in the Bible), mandates the use of the left hand to wipe yourself. With a rock.

Frankly, after reading some of the Hadith on poopin', I'm not terribly inclined to shake either hand of a traditional Muslim.

You are correct, though I didn't go into detail earlier. The left hand is referred to as the wiping hand there...

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia+Jan 31 2005, 01:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Jan 31 2005, 01:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 01:08 PM

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper.  I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

I wonder how important it will be to us when the Lord choses if we go on his right hand or his left.

Matt. 25: 32-34

32 And before him shall be gathered all anations: and he shall bseparate them one from another, as a cshepherd divideth his dsheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his aright• hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright• hand, Come, ye bblessed of my Father, cinherit the dkingdom• prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The right hand, in this scripture, means God's power. To the righteous He gives his power. So, the analogy isn't complete. Taking communion with the right hand doesn't mean the same thing as this scripture.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Amillia+Jan 31 2005, 02:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Jan 31 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 01:08 PM

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper.  I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

I wonder how important it will be to us when the Lord choses if we go on his right hand or his left.

Matt. 25: 32-34

32 And before him shall be gathered all anations: and he shall bseparate them one from another, as a cshepherd divideth his dsheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his aright• hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright• hand, Come, ye bblessed of my Father, cinherit the dkingdom• prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

See Jenda's post.

[mark44]

what an odd bishop. like Ray posted, he should be stressing faith and repentence, not islamic traditions. he should be telling his ward not to purchase big SUV's fully financed, to avoid excessive debt, not to get tatoos plastered over one's bodies, for women to dress modestly, things that have some grain of logic to them.

yeh, satan stands close to your left hand, so don't take sacrament with that! he might jump in to the bread and defile it! what stupid old wives paganistic doctrine.

[Snow]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Jan 31 2005, 12:00 PM

I believe this is because Islam, which has an excruciatingly detailed set of traditions on how to relieve yourself (as opposed to only one passage in the Bible), mandates the use of the left hand to wipe yourself. With a rock.

Frankly, after reading some of the Hadith on poopin', I'm not terribly inclined to shake either hand of a traditional Muslim.

Ever read King Rat by James Clavell.

Excellent.

[Snow]

Originally posted by mark44@Jan 31 2005, 05:24 PM

what an odd bishop. like Ray posted, he should be stressing faith and repentence, not islamic traditions. he should be telling his ward not to purchase big SUV's fully financed, to avoid excessive debt, not to get tatoos plastered over one's bodies, for women to dress modestly, things that have some grain of logic to them.

I just want to bear my testimony about how fortunate we all are to have posters on this board who know what a Bishop should be doing.

In an unrelated note: 84.1 percent of the population have a highschool education.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Blessed+Jan 31 2005, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Blessed @ Jan 31 2005, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Jan 31 2005, 02:26 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 01:08 PM

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper.  I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

I wonder how important it will be to us when the Lord choses if we go on his right hand or his left.

Matt. 25: 32-34

32 And before him shall be gathered all anations: and he shall bseparate them one from another, as a cshepherd divideth his dsheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his aright• hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright• hand, Come, ye bblessed of my Father, cinherit the dkingdom• prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

See Jenda's post.

I don't agree. All the religious ceremonies are symbolic. Being willing to follow the instructions of performing these religious ceremonies which are given in a certain way to represent the symbolic meaning is what it is all about.

Otherwise, how would bread and water really mean the flesh and blood of Christ? Why not use soda crackers and milk?

[Amillia]

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia+Jan 31 2005, 07:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Jan 31 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by -Amillia@Jan 31 2005, 02:26 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Jan 31 2005, 01:08 PM

Please don't take offense at this... but this smacks of letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law.

What does it really matter which hand we use to take the Lord's Supper.  I cannot see Jesus saying to me if He were serving me "Uh, Blessed, put that back and pick it up with your right hand!"

Like I said, I mean no disprespect, but this is just a bit strange.

I wonder how important it will be to us when the Lord choses if we go on his right hand or his left.

Matt. 25: 32-34

32 And before him shall be gathered all anations: and he shall bseparate them one from another, as a cshepherd divideth his dsheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his aright• hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright• hand, Come, ye bblessed of my Father, cinherit the dkingdom• prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

See Jenda's post.

I don't agree. All the religious ceremonies are symbolic. Being willing to follow the instructions of performing these religious ceremonies which are given in a certain way to represent the symbolic meaning is what it is all about.

Otherwise, how would bread and water really mean the flesh and blood of Christ? Why not use soda crackers and milk?

I believe it is the symbolism of Christ's sacrifice that is important in communion. That we approach the table humbly and repentantly is what is required of us. That is what the scriptures tell us.

Anything that is added to this is another gospel.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Just my two cents worth...but,

I also have been taught this from my youth and I agree with Amillia that there is symbolism involved in using the right hand. We raise our right hand to the square when we are sustaining someone...as PH when we are performing a Confirmation and standing in the circle (if more than 5 LOL) we place our right hand on the head.....so yes, I agree that "when possible" ie: making sure the 18 mos old isnt grabbing the tray....we should try to use our right hand.

HOWEVER,

I have never read or heard at anytime from the President of the Church, nor the Twelve or any GA...that we MUST use our right hand to partake of the sacrament. I think the symbolism is there when we do...but, no condemnation or invalidation of the sacrament if we don't. I would venture to say...that was that good Bishop's desire and counsel for his ward...but, IMO..if it was presented as a "thou shalt"...that wasn't quite correct.

randy

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

When we take with our right hand we are not saying OUR right hand is powerfull. We are recognizing and putting the 'right hand' of the Savior and our hopeful ultimate destiny in our minds.

We are saying we want to be on the right hand of Christ. IT IS SYMBOLIC! Not literal. You are confusing and mixing the two together when you argue it isn't our right hand that has the power. It is symbolic of where we want to be through this covenant and ordinance.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Feb 1 2005, 01:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Feb 1 2005, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Just my two cents worth...but,

I also have been taught this from my youth and I agree with Amillia that there is symbolism involved in using the right hand. We raise our right hand to the square when we are sustaining someone...as PH when we are performing a Confirmation and standing in the circle (if more than 5 LOL) we place our right hand on the head.....so yes, I agree that "when possible" ie: making sure the 18 mos old isnt grabbing the tray....we should try to use our right hand.

HOWEVER,

I have never read or heard at anytime from the President of the Church, nor the Twelve or any GA...that we MUST use our right hand to partake of the sacrament. I think the symbolism is there when we do...but, no condemnation or invalidation of the sacrament if we don't. I would venture to say...that was that good Bishop's desire and counsel for his ward...but, IMO..if it was presented as a "thou shalt"...that wasn't quite correct.

randy

I agree that our sacrement is still valid, but we lose the opportunity of correlating the symbolic meaning into our submissive, repentive hearts, imaging the right hand of Christ. :)

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Oh..and just another thought that popped into my head when I reread Jenda's comment that "God's right hand bestows power" which is true of course...and in this light as PH holders we have been called and ordained and given the "power and authority" to act in the name of Jesus Christ....so since God and Christ are our examples in ALL things, it stands to reason, IF God uses his "right hand" to bestow power...we should use our "right hand" also. Just a thought.

randy

....now IF I just happened to be a "right handed" amputee...the Lord would accept my "left hand" with love!!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Feb 1 2005, 01:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Feb 1 2005, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Oh..and just another thought that popped into my head when I reread Jenda's comment that "God's right hand bestows power" which is true of course...and in this light as PH holders we have been called and ordained and given the "power and authority" to act in the name of Jesus Christ....so since God and Christ are our examples in ALL things, it stands to reason, IF God uses his "right hand" to bestow power...we should use our "right hand" also. Just a thought.

randy

....now IF I just happened to be a "right handed" amputee...the Lord would accept my "left hand" with love!!

Excellent thought. :)

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Feb 1 2005, 12:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Feb 1 2005, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Just my two cents worth...but,

I also have been taught this from my youth and I agree with Amillia that there is symbolism involved in using the right hand. We raise our right hand to the square when we are sustaining someone...as PH when we are performing a Confirmation and standing in the circle (if more than 5 LOL) we place our right hand on the head.....so yes, I agree that "when possible" ie: making sure the 18 mos old isnt grabbing the tray....we should try to use our right hand.

HOWEVER,

I have never read or heard at anytime from the President of the Church, nor the Twelve or any GA...that we MUST use our right hand to partake of the sacrament. I think the symbolism is there when we do...but, no condemnation or invalidation of the sacrament if we don't. I would venture to say...that was that good Bishop's desire and counsel for his ward...but, IMO..if it was presented as a "thou shalt"...that wasn't quite correct.

randy

So, what would that symbolism be? Limited to partaking of communion, that is.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 1 2005, 02:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 1 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Randy Johnson@Feb 1 2005, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

Just my two cents worth...but,

I also have been taught this from my youth and I agree with Amillia that there is symbolism involved in using the right hand. We raise our right hand to the square when we are sustaining someone...as PH when we are performing a Confirmation and standing in the circle (if more than 5 LOL) we place our right hand on the head.....so yes, I agree that "when possible" ie: making sure the 18 mos old isnt grabbing the tray....we should try to use our right hand.

HOWEVER,

I have never read or heard at anytime from the President of the Church, nor the Twelve or any GA...that we MUST use our right hand to partake of the sacrament. I think the symbolism is there when we do...but, no condemnation or invalidation of the sacrament if we don't. I would venture to say...that was that good Bishop's desire and counsel for his ward...but, IMO..if it was presented as a "thou shalt"...that wasn't quite correct.

randy

So, what would that symbolism be?

IT is explained in the scripture I gave you in Mosiah, and the uses of the right hand in other ordinances.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia+Feb 1 2005, 12:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Feb 1 2005, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Feb 1 2005, 10:51 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 12:16 AM

Compare MOSIAH CHAPTER 5 with the sacremental prayers. The requirement to take upon us HIS name has everything to do with being on the right hand. Symbolically this all comes together consistently.

Our right hand is nothing. It is Christ's right hand (or God's) that is important.

Our right hand can do nothing. God's right hand bestows His power.

When we take with our right hand we are not saying OUR right hand is powerfull. We are recognizing and putting the 'right hand' of the Savior and our hopeful ultimate destiny in our minds.

We are saying we want to be on the right hand of Christ. IT IS SYMBOLIC! Not literal. You are confusing and mixing the two together when you argue it isn't our right hand that has the power. It is symbolic of where we want to be through this covenant and ordinance.

Could you point me to a more specific verse than just Mosiah 5. You have to remember that my BoM is different from yours, and a whole chapter is kind of vague.