Swimsuit Question for the Young women

[john doe]

Okay guys, let's all go back to our corners and cool off before posting. I'm tempted to close this thread as it seems to me that it has outlived its usefulness.

[applepansy]

Okay guys, let's all go back to our corners and cool off before posting. I'm tempted to close this thread as it seems to me that it has outlived its usefulness.

Thank you john. :)

[pam]

Perhaps we should be more Christ like.

Excuse me but I was responding to a post that Janice asked in the form of a question. There was nothing unChristlike but what I said. Merely answering a question.

[pam]

Pam, from the very little I know about you, I'm not surprised the first thing you would notice about someone is their clothing.

Janice

Ouch..that hurt my feelings. Exactly..from the little you know about me.

[hordak]

Excuse me but I was responding to a post that Janice asked in the form of a question. There was nothing unChristlike but what I said. Merely answering a question.

I was not inferring that you were being un Christ like. Your post spoke of how we tend to see people as based on the way they look. While this is true, it is also unfortunate.

Jesus doesn't. He sees peoples hearts. This is the Christlike attitude we should strive to adopt.

[pam]

I would totally agree with that. But we are human and while that is the way we SHOULD be...unfortunately that's not the way the majority of people are.

Also unfortunately the way we dress is usually the first impression people get of someone.

[Janice]

An Olive Branch:

LDS.org - Friend Article - Friend to Friend

Dear President Tanner,

I am 10 years old, and we received our Ensign magazine and enjoyed the record very much. I was very inspired by your talk. I agree there are many problems in this world today. There are many things I don’t understand, one of them is wearing pants to school. My mother says that the presidency wouldn’t like young girls wearing pants to school. We play kick ball and all kinds of out door games that are not presentable in a dress. The principle say it’s all right, and even teachers wear them. I know this gospel is true and I do have a testimony and know you are an inspired man from god and I would like to know your true feelings on this matter. I want to thank you for your time.

*

Love

Valarie

Dear Valarie,

This will acknowledge your very sweet letter. It shows me that you want to do what is right.

You ask about the proper dress for school. The Church has taken the position that whether youth are at school, attending a sacrament or other Church meeting, at a dance or an athletic or sports-camp activity, at home or away, Church standards require young men and women to be appropriately dressed. Modesty is a protection for the youth of the Church and is one of the Lord’s ways to help them live clean, wholesome lives.

Girls should try always to enhance their natural beauty and femininity. They should dress appropriately for any occasion. It would seem proper to wear slacks or pants when playing kickball or the other outdoor games that you mention.

Modesty in dress is a quality of mind and heart, born of respect for oneself, one’s fellowmen, and the Creator of us all. Modesty reflects an attitude of humility, decency, and propriety. Consistent with these principles and guided by the Holy Spirit, let parents, teachers, and youth discuss the particulars of dress, grooming, and personal appearance, and with free agency accept responsibility and choose the right. You should honor your parents, who love you dearly, and follow their advice or instruction after discussing your problems with them.

May the Lord bless you and give you the desire and strength to do right always. By doing this you will be happy, loved, and respected.

*

Love,

N. Eldon Tanner

P.S. Would you or your mother or father have any objection to having your letter and my answer published in the Friend? We feel it may be helpful to others of our youth who have the same question.

Dear President Tanner,

I received your letter today. I appreciate the time you have spent with me and my letter. My parents and I both think it would be nice to put it in the Friend, and I will be honored. Thank you again for your time.

*

Love,

Valarie

I find this exchange fascinating.

1) Note the date.... 1971. It seems strange to us today that any parent would insist that their daughter wear a dress to school. These parents did so using modesty as their reasoning, and backing up their belief with "It's what the First Presidency would want you to do." To the ever lasting credit of this wise 10 year old, she opted to find her own answer.

2) President Tanner manages to tell the Valarie that it's okay to wear pants at school without saying "your parents are wrong." He validates both the parents love for their daughter and the church's stance on modest dress, and tells her to honor her parents.

3) In the paragraph that begins "Modesty in dress is a quality..." President Tanner promotes both of the points of view that have been expressed in this thread: 1) Outward modesty is a reflection of who we are on the inside. 2) Teach and talk about dress, grooming, and personal appearance.

4) I am glad that me makes the point: "Modesty in dress is a quality of mind and heart... Modesty reflects an attitude of humility, decency, and propriety.". THIS is exactly the point I have been so inefficiently trying to make on this thread. He did not offer any rules on when you must wear a dress. He did not tell Valarie how long her dress, hemline, neck, or sleeves should be. He basically said: Respect yourself. Respect others. Be humble. Be decent. Be proper. With these principles in mind, discuss dress, and discuss grooming, and discuss personal appearance. Then, respect your parents, use your free agency, and do the right thing.

Perfect!

Janice

Edited April 1, 2009 by Janice

[Janice]

I missed something when reading this exchange the first time through:

Girls should try always to enhance their natural beauty and femininity. They should dress appropriately for any occasion. It would seem proper to wear slacks or pants when playing kickball or the other outdoor games that you mention.

I'm really glad he said "Girls should try always to enhance their natural beauty and femininity". Sometimes I feel our girls are being told, in the name of modesty, to HIDE their natural beauty and femininity so as to keep boys from having impure thoughts. I'm NOT saying girls should flaunt their natural beauty and femininity with bikinis and too-tight clothing, etc. I'm only saying that we don't need to hide under a burka to be modest.

"They should dress appropriately for any occasion." -- That really is a good sum of modest attire. Asking a girl to wear a dress while playing kickball so she can remain modest is silly. Of course, she does not need to wear uber-short cut off's with a tank top either.

Janice

[Janice]

Ouch..that hurt my feelings. Exactly..from the little you know about me.

Pam, I offer my sincere apology. Honestly. I was trying to make a point, and I did so at the expense of your feelings. That was rude of me. I knew you were not trying to say you judge people on their clothing.

It's a sad aspect of humanity that we do, so to speak, judge books by their cover, or people by their clothing. I wish it was not so. I wish we could all look past what people wear and see into their hearts.

I really, honestly do feel that in general we over-focus on clothing when we teach modesty, and it concerns me. Can't we cast an equally bright light on all the other aspects of modesty without diminishing the importance of modest clothing? When we over-focus on clothing, we only exacerbate the problem of seeing the clothing and not the person. I feel if we could spend more time on the other principles of modesty, then we would be less apt to judge the book by it's cover, or the person by the clothing.

Janice

[applepansy]

An Olive Branch:

LDS.org - Friend Article - Friend to Friend

Dear President Tanner,

I am 10 years old, and we received our Ensign magazine and enjoyed the record very much. I was very inspired by your talk. I agree there are many problems in this world today. There are many things I don’t understand, one of them is wearing pants to school. My mother says that the presidency wouldn’t like young girls wearing pants to school. We play kick ball and all kinds of out door games that are not presentable in a dress. The principle say it’s all right, and even teachers wear them. I know this gospel is true and I do have a testimony and know you are an inspired man from god and I would like to know your true feelings on this matter. I want to thank you for your time.

*

Love

Valarie

Dear Valarie,

This will acknowledge your very sweet letter. It shows me that you want to do what is right.

You ask about the proper dress for school. The Church has taken the position that whether youth are at school, attending a sacrament or other Church meeting, at a dance or an athletic or sports-camp activity, at home or away, Church standards require young men and women to be appropriately dressed. Modesty is a protection for the youth of the Church and is one of the Lord’s ways to help them live clean, wholesome lives.

Girls should try always to enhance their natural beauty and femininity. They should dress appropriately for any occasion. It would seem proper to wear slacks or pants when playing kickball or the other outdoor games that you mention.

Modesty in dress is a quality of mind and heart, born of respect for oneself, one’s fellowmen, and the Creator of us all. Modesty reflects an attitude of humility, decency, and propriety. Consistent with these principles and guided by the Holy Spirit, let parents, teachers, and youth discuss the particulars of dress, grooming, and personal appearance, and with free agency accept responsibility and choose the right. You should honor your parents, who love you dearly, and follow their advice or instruction after discussing your problems with them.

May the Lord bless you and give you the desire and strength to do right always. By doing this you will be happy, loved, and respected.

*

Love,

N. Eldon Tanner

P.S. Would you or your mother or father have any objection to having your letter and my answer published in the Friend? We feel it may be helpful to others of our youth who have the same question.

Dear President Tanner,

I received your letter today. I appreciate the time you have spent with me and my letter. My parents and I both think it would be nice to put it in the Friend, and I will be honored. Thank you again for your time.

*

Love,

Valarie

Thank you. This story illustrates both sides of the modesty coin.

applepansy

P.S. Janice, I'm not sure where this went wrong. When you argue your way through an issue you finally get there. :)

[Janice]

Thank you. This story illustrates both sides of the modesty coin.

And so long as both sides are taught, then we are all happy! My concern is that too often we only teach the clothing side, which presents a lopsided understanding of modesty.

Janice

[applepansy]

I'm really glad he said "Girls should try always to enhance their natural beauty and femininity". Sometimes I feel our girls are being told, in the name of modesty, to HIDE their natural beauty and femininity so as to keep boys from having impure thoughts. I'm NOT saying girls should flaunt their natural beauty and femininity with bikinis and too-tight clothing, etc. I'm only saying that we don't need to hide under a burka to be modest.

"They should dress appropriately for any occasion." -- That really is a good sum of modest attire. Asking a girl to wear a dress while playing kickball so she can remain modest is silly. Of course, she does not need to wear uber-short cut off's with a tank top either.

Janice

I agree!!!! The wards I've lived in all encouraged Girls to enhance their natural beauty and feminity.

No one here has said we should hide who we are.

I was a teenager in the time when dresses for girls at school was the standard. I understand the frustration of the young girl who wrote to Pres. Tanner. We're not in that era anymore. I do not see people asking girls to hide under a burka . . . at least not within the Church.

Again, thank you for posting Pres. Tanner's reply.

applepansy

[plhprdgh]

i like "tankini's" personally. i find they cover more and better than normal "one peices". maybe that's just me though. if you can get the cute little bottoms with a skirt, then the "tank" part for the top.

i'm not a fan of bikini's though, on anyone. why anyone would want to show that much of their body is beyond me.

I am a big fan of bikini. For swim purpose always like to buy bikini only. today there is a new style in the market Its tankini.The tankini is two separate pieces so there is no riding, no pinching and no cutting into your skin.

[Guest adverdelex]

I really like two pieces over one-piece suits because the one pieces make me really cold when the wet suit is against my skin. And for some reason, the bikinis that tie/clasp behind my neck really hurt my neck and end up giving me a headache.

[Mute]

In my opinion, people should wear what they feel comfortable in and like the look of. If it makes them feel better to wear a bikini instead of a one piece, then I think they should wear a bikini.