Hemidakota Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 There is a difference on what both men were allowed to be written of the pre-mortal life. Both men did witness the beginning of the spiritual birth to the birth of the first Adams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deseretgov Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Now I don't know the entire history behind the Book of Abraham. But one explaination I like is the the Papyrus was more of a Urim and Thumim. The text of the Book of Abraham was not on the papyrus but rather the papyrus was a sort of tool use to reveal the Book of Abraham.I will pray tonight and ask for a spiritual experience tomorrow while I'm the right frame of mind and before I can convince myself not to!I don't think it is wise to pray for a spiritual experience on a certain date. God may have other plans than to give you a spiritual experience on that date. Maybe God wants you to search more before he gives you a spiitual witness. On my mission we had two very good investigators that did all we asked of them. They came to church. They read the scriptures. Even the way we first contacted them we miraculous. However they did not recieve a witness of the truth of what we taught. That doesn't mean that it's not true it just means that perhaps God did not want them to know the truth right then.Other times we must prove to God that we really want the truth by struggling through our search. Praying everyday for weeks months sometimes years before God gives an answer. We must allow God's will and timeline to happen and not impose our own.EDIT:I have started to read Moses, then I will read Abraham. Although its raising a lot of questions already...We love questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul_Searcher Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Good because I have a bucket load!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 The link that bytor provided is a good one, although perhaps a little difficult to read, as it appears to be a transcript. Let’s reproduce a shortened version:For the Book of Abraham In 1835, the Church bought some Egyptian artifacts, most notably a set of mummies, that had been brought to the US from Egypt. Included with the mummies were some papyri containing the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham and the text that was translated. I believe it was Truman Madsen that I heard talk about how one of the facsimiles was incomplete, and Smith completed the drawing. Smith then translated what became the text of the Book of Abraham The mummies remained with Emma Smith’s family after the saints were sent packing out of Illinois. They were eventually sold to a museum in St. Louis, which then moved to Chicago. The artifacts were destroyed in Chicago’s big fire in 1871 In 1966 fragments of the papyri were found in the New York Metropolitan Museum. Another fragment was found in the Church Historian’s Office. Some controversy exists between scholars and religionists over whether translations of the papyri are correct.Unfortunately, with texts as old as these—and that deal with a civilization with which we have no first hand experience—it’s going to be very difficult to determine whether everything in these translations is correct. Hopefully, however, knowing how the artifacts were obtained and what happened to them will alleviate the concern that the entire thing was fabricated. The papyri did in fact exist. I suppose the only question we have to be concerned about is whether or not Smith could reasonably translate them.You might try this Wikipedia article—it at least will also discuss some of the controversy around the papyri. I find FAIR tends to be a little biased in its presentation.Book of Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If you are truly want to know everything about the Book of Abraham, purchase the book called "The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri" by Professor Hugh B. Nibley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul_Searcher Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Why had no one attempted to translate them before?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Translated what before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Why had no one attempted to translate them before??Several papyri and eleven mummies were discovered in Thebes by Antonio Lebolo between 1818 and 1822. Sometime between 1822 and his death on February 19, 1830, Lebolo arranged to have them sold. The mummies were shipped to New York, where they were purchased by Michael Chandler in 1833. Over the next two years Chandler toured the eastern United States, displaying and selling some of the mummies. In July 1835, Chandler brought the remaining four mummies and associated papyri to Kirtland, Ohio, then home of the Latter-Day Saints. Although the Rosetta Stone had been discovered in 1799, the ability to read Egyptian wasn't well developed until the 1850s. Chandler asked Joseph Smith to look at the scrolls and give some insight into what was written on them, due to Smith's notoriety and claim to have translated the golden plates of the Book of Mormon. After examining the scrolls, Smith, Joseph Coe and Simeon Andrews purchased the four mummies and at least five papyrus documents for $2400Book of Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have started to read Moses, then I will read Abraham. Although its raising a lot of questions already... Something you may find interesting when you read Abraham (in particular chapter 2-3). Make a comparison to Doctrine and Covenants section 88. In essence similar things are being described but one is from a very ancient time whose entire scientific paradigm was based on relationships of ratios and greater than, less than or equal. And the other is a description based on Newtonian principles of science familiar to our day. Then realize that you are getting a glimpse of G-d speaking of concepts based on two different places and times through the one Joseph Smith. I do not understand how one can read these two different approaches beautifully expressed through one individual and not realize that Joseph Smith is indeed a prophet. I just wish we had a update based on Special Reflectivity and Quantum Mechanics. :)The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Why had no one attempted to translate them before?? The Book of Abraham, although related to the papyri is not a translation of the papyri.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLight Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 The Book of Abraham, although related to the papyri is not a translation of the papyri.The TravelerReally...not to rock the boat but perhaps you should read the preface of the Book of Abraham:"THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH A Translation of some ancient Records, that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. - The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus." Additionally:I commence the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc. - a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them. Truly we can say, the Lord is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 236). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnc76v22 Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I read the introduction to Abraham and it said some papyrus paper 'fell into the hands' of Joseph Smith. I wasn't too satisfied with that explanation so I looked on lds.org for more info. It basically said you need faith to believe it is what it says it is.That is not enough for me, it sounds a bit too convenient a reason-using the old Holy Ghost to prove truthfulness.1. The first principle of the gospel is Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.2. The promise that is given in the Moroni 10:3-5 also applies to the Book of Abraham.Without the Holy Ghost, no amount of evidence will ever be enough. See the quotes below my signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I can attest, Moroni was literally right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Really...not to rock the boat but perhaps you should read the preface of the Book of Abraham:"THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH A Translation of some ancient Records, that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. - The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus." Additionally:I commence the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc. - a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them. Truly we can say, the Lord is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 236). As of this current date the only papyrus in anyone’s possession are some facsimiles and a remnant of a scroll that contains what is called the Book of Breathings. However, there are literary and conceptual parallels in the Book of Breathings and the Book of Abraham that if there is interest I could highlight but I am not about to make this a debate about misconceptions concerning the Book of Breathiings. It is important to note that the Book of Breathings is not a single reference document but each copy was customized to a specific individual – most likely to be used as a sort of ancient teleprompter or aid in preparing for and navigating the “after life”. I highlighted your quote that indicates the Book of Abraham was one of several scrolls and anyone that has referenced current documents realizes that the Book of Abraham is not among the few documents and texts that have surfaced. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnc76v22 Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I just wish we had a update based on Special Reflectivity and Quantum Mechanics. :)The TravelerHow about Inflation Theory? :)“And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.”-Moses 1:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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