Need A Little Help

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[Setheus]

What is sad to me is that people don't keep their covenants. When you are baptized/sealed/take sacrament, you are making or renewing covenants and promises. When people join the church they should have recieve a personal revelation that the church is the church of Christ. I personally beleive that if you have not recieved that then DON"T JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Because later on after you have been a member and suddenly find the church to no longer be true is it because that still small voice lied to you? Or perhaps you just assumed it would be true. Or you figured you'd join now recieve revelation later? How sad/stupid.

As far as being baptized at 8 years of age and later using that as ammo to say "I wasn't given a 'choice' in the matter" is like a child being born into great wealth and later saying "What if I had wanted to be a poor person!" Those born into the covenant are blessed beyond all other children because they won't have to rely on the gospel finding them. They are born into it.

For those who asked and recieved that the church is true and have fallen away claiming it is no longer so, what changed? Certainly not the word of God.

I look at it this way. Someone says that the sky is blue. Another says he is wrong that the sky is not blue but only that light reflecting off of gases in the atmosphere create the blue reflection.

Who is right? Is not the sky STILL blue.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[ThunderFire]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Apr 13 2005, 06:11 PM

The reason being that if they still believed, they would understand that their only salvation is inside the Church. 

What I "get" from the scriptures is that my salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone and not a church. I often wonder if this is why people leave, they become disenchanted when they find that the "glory", honor, and praise is being given to an institution instead of the risen Lord.

In Christ I Serve,

Thunderfire

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Have a nice summer!

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Setheus@Apr 13 2005, 02:50 PM

There is a lot of talk going on here but very little is being said. Perhaps this is why the site is LDSTalk?

I do not attempt to "figure out why someone left the church" And I could care less why they leave. I just find it sad that when someone joins the church its all about "I' feel the spirit, its the right thing to do, its the true church, etc etc" BUT when it comes time to leave the church it is ALWAYS "So and so were not nice to me, I was "pressured" to be baptized, I didnt know for sure that the church was true etc etc"> Well, if you didn't ask Heavenly Father if the church was true or not and now you feel like leaving....GO! Have a great life. Take your free agency and run with it.

Just remember, when someone leaves they are ALWAYS welcome back.

Ummm... what about when people discover things about 'the church' and realize that there's no way it can be true? Maybe the missionaries should tell possible converts a bit more about the history. I guess that's my fault b/c I wasn't enough of a skeptic at the time to research it.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 13 2005, 07:04 PM

I think everyone is different. Some just don't know what they have until they lose it, and then they won't admit it.

And some just can't believe they ever believed that stuff in the first place!

Whatever makes you feel superior, Amilia.

[ThunderFire]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Apr 13 2005, 07:44 PM

Again, my theory is that those who leave the Church...even the sinners...no longer believe in the Church's authority as the One True Church.

So it is not the sinning that is causing them to leave...it is their lack of belief in the LDS church.

Interesting theory, they could also be leaving denominational religions because they see the "saved" as being far more lost and even worse sinners then themselves! We are all sinners to the extent that we deny the Eternal Christ and I believe that the ONLY authority the church has is in pointing people to him.

So what is the "one true church"? In the summer of 1828 Joseph Smith wrote what he believed to be the mind and will of God saying, "Behold, this is my doctrine: Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church; whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore, he is not of my church".

I believe that Joseph Smith was right on with this counsel and that the "One True Church" is larger than any one denomination, yet I also believe that mankind seeks to promote their one true "denomination" and the minute they do that their lips may be close to him, yet their hearts are far away.

In Christ I Serve,

Thunderfire

[Amillia]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Apr 13 2005, 08:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Apr 13 2005, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Setheus@Apr 13 2005, 02:50 PM

There is a lot of talk going on here but very little is being said.  Perhaps this is why the site is LDSTalk?

I do not attempt to "figure out why someone left the church"  And I could care less why they leave.  I just find it sad that when someone joins the church its all about "I' feel the spirit, its the right thing to do, its the true church, etc etc" BUT when it comes time to leave the church it is ALWAYS "So and so were not nice to me, I was "pressured" to be baptized, I didnt know for sure that the church was true etc etc">   Well, if you didn't ask Heavenly Father if the church was true or not and now you feel like leaving....GO!  Have a great life.  Take your free agency and run with it.

Just remember, when someone leaves they are ALWAYS welcome back.

Ummm... what about when people discover things about 'the church' and realize that there's no way it can be true? Maybe the missionaries should tell possible converts a bit more about the history. I guess that's my fault b/c I wasn't enough of a skeptic at the time to research it.

The church's true power isn't granted through it's history. Too many get lost by looking beyond the mark. Too bad...

The Weakest...

===============

No brain is stronger than its weakest think.

~Thomas L. Masson~

It is all this 'weakest think' among the anti's that have lost them the kingdom.

They spend all their time and energy in this 'weakest think' mode(meaning, looking beyond the mark

for the faults of men) instead of looking for all the great things that the church membership can bring

to them. There are gifts that are so great, one can easily over look the faults of men in the church's

history.

But what do they look for? 'The Weakest Think'!

[Jason]

Amillia,

Funny that the non-thinkers should accuse the thinkers of thinking too much!

That really makes me laugh

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 13 2005, 11:33 PM

Amillia,

Funny that the non-thinkers should accuse the thinkers of thinking too much!

That really makes me laugh

As a man thinketh ~

Anti's think so much negative and do so much in the negative realm, that what thinking they do is conterproductive.

It is better to think a little good, than a whole lot of bad.

[Jason]

Anti's think so much negative and do so much in the negative realm, that what thinking they do is conterproductive.

It's all about perspective. You see those who fight against the Mormon church as negative, sinful people. I see them generally as people who are concerned that this little heresy might spread as part of the predicted apostasy prior to the 2nd coming.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 12:22 AM

Anti's think so much negative and do so much in the negative realm, that what thinking they do is conterproductive.

It's all about perspective. You see those who fight against the Mormon church as negative, sinful people. I see them generally as people who are concerned that this little heresy might spread as part of the predicted apostasy prior to the 2nd coming.

If you don't want to be part of the church ~ fine ~ but it seems to be that there is something wrong with you (not the church ) when you can't leave it alone and get a life, allowing others the same privilege.

That fact that you continue to sling mud, as your prime religious activity, seems to show that you totally lack what the Lord allowed. That being ... all men to worship how , where, or what they may.

Mark 9 teaches that!

[Jason]

If you don't want to be part of the church ~ fine ~ but it seems to be that there is something wrong with you (not the church ) when you can't leave it alone and get a life, allowing others the same privilege.

That fact that you continue to sling mud, as your prime religious activity, seems to show that you totally lack what the Lord allowed. That being ... all men to worship how , where, or what they may.

Mark 9 teaches that! 

So why doesn't your church "get a life" and send home the 50,000 missionaries who daily intrude on the beliefs and practices of others?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 01:04 AM

If you don't want to be part of the church ~ fine ~ but it seems to be that there is something wrong with you (not the church ) when you can't leave it alone and get a life, allowing others the same privilege.

That fact that you continue to sling mud, as your prime religious activity, seems to show that you totally lack what the Lord allowed. That being ... all men to worship how , where, or what they may.

Mark 9 teaches that! 

So why doesn't your church "get a life" and send home the 50,000 missionaries who daily intrude on the beliefs and practices of others?

Those missionaries chose to go out and teach the word. The people who listen, listen voluntarily. You are here on a pro-mormon board voluntarily. You silly silly silly boy.

[begood2]

Outshined,

I'm glad that you shared your website. http://www.ilikelife.com. I think that I have found some very usable resources there. I also enjoyed your comments to Chicago-Guy. I hope the information helped him in his struggles with his faith and how it might effect his precious family.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by pushka@Apr 12 2005, 03:29 PM

I agree with Maureen and Ex Mormon Jason...

How would the LDS people like it if another religion came along and baptised their dead relatives...or themselves...into their religion by proxy because the religion believed it was the 'one true' church of Christ? Presumably when these Jewish, or non-jewish people died they had not accepted the LDS religion, therefore they had no desire to be baptised into it? If you feel that the Jewish people think there must be 'something to' this baptism by proxy by objecting to it, how would you feel if the tables were turned and you were being baptised by proxy into another religion after your death?

I've only read the thread thus far...had to make a comment....

As an LDS person, here's my thoughts:

If another religion believed in baptising our dead family members (or me for that matter) into something totally against our nature, (such as in an afterlife that everyone is to be drawn and quartered, or an afterlife of sheer torture, pain and suffering, or a satan affiliated anything ) as a loving DNA recipient left behind, of course I would object (or want someone else to object in my stead) to even the mear thought of subjecting my relatives into such trivial garbage. I wouldn't want my family name to even be associated with something like that. There better be some research done into what the heck this religion was into, what it's main purpose of such an action would be, and why they even believe in such a thing. If I believed in pain and suffering for all and/or (perish the thought) anything good attributed to satan, it wouldn't bother me at all, that some other "religious" group had something different to offer in the same sick minded crap I just thought up.

But you did say

because the religion believed it was the 'one true' church of Christ?

, any doubts about the good intentions would be blown away with the wind. But that is only because I believe in Christ, and know that anything relating to Him couldn't be bad. They only thing I can understand is the difference of opinion, and the views about the NT Christ; they (the Jews) have such a different view, and the fear of this unknown earthly man having a "one true church"..... if you look at it from that standpoint it could be a bit unnerving.

However, the Jews and the LDS believe in the same God.....yes, of course they have different views of the same one, but the same one nonetheless; and upon finding out that there is free agency given to those to choose any path they desire after baptism, I wouldn't be offended at all, because of that word CHOICE.

CHOICE is a lovely word.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 13 2005, 11:22 PM

Anti's think so much negative and do so much in the negative realm, that what thinking they do is conterproductive.

It's all about perspective. You see those who fight against the Mormon church as negative, sinful people. I see them generally as people who are concerned that this little heresy might spread as part of the predicted apostasy prior to the 2nd coming.

Ex, I would commend to you Gamaliel's advice to the Jewish leaders. See Acts 5:34-39.

As for Mormon missionaries, they're supposed to be teaching the gospel as the Church understands it to willing listeners. They're not sent out to combat any particular "heresy." I doubt many Mormons hang out on Eastern Orthodox web sites arguing that St. John Chrystostom was a nasty anti-Semite, or that its hierarchy was too influenced by Byzantine politics, or that baklava is sacriligious.

[ThunderFire]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Apr 14 2005, 06:03 AM

However, the Jews and the LDS believe in the same God.....

Are we so sure about this? The Jews do not believe (or teach) that God is an exalted being from Kolab which is basic LDS belief. It is appropriate then to say that both Jew and LDS believe there is a God, but when we look at foundational beliefs, Jews and LDS can argue that they do not believe in the "same" God. This may appear nitpicky, but to the Jews this would be a major train wreck in finding commonality of belief in the "same" God when they do not view God as an exalted being. B)

In Christ I Serve,

Thunderfire

[Jason]

Ex, I would commend to you Gamaliel's advice to the Jewish leaders. See Acts 5:34-39.

I honestly don't think this applies. I would disregard his advice based on the fact that many false religions have existed for thousands of years. I've always believed his was a foolish comment.

As for Mormon missionaries, they're supposed to be teaching the gospel as the Church understands it to willing listeners.

Course you and I both know that we pushed Mormonism on many unwilling listeners.

They're not sent out to combat any particular "heresy."

Heresy no, general apostasy of all of christendom, yes.

I doubt many Mormons hang out on Eastern Orthodox web sites arguing that St. John Chrystostom was a nasty anti-Semite, or that its hierarchy was too influenced by Byzantine politics, or that baklava is sacriligious.

I doubt many Mormons have even heard of St. John Chrysostom, let alone ancient Byzantium!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ThunderFire+Apr 14 2005, 12:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ThunderFire @ Apr 14 2005, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@Apr 14 2005, 06:03 AM

However, the Jews and the LDS believe in the same God.....

Are we so sure about this? The Jews do not believe (or teach) that God is an exalted being from Kolab which is basic LDS belief. It is appropriate then to say that both Jew and LDS believe there is a God, but when we look at foundational beliefs, Jews and LDS can argue that they do not believe in the "same" God. This may appear nitpicky, but to the Jews this would be a major train wreck in finding commonality of belief in the "same" God when they do not view God as an exalted being. B)

In Christ I Serve,

Thunderfire

I think he is referring to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob/ the creator.

Believing different things about that God doesn't make it necessary to believe they are two different Gods.

[Jason]

I think he is referring to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob/ the creator.

Believing different things about that God doesn't make it necessary to believe they are two different Gods.

Sharing the same name doesn't mean you share the same God.

[Setheus]

You used to have intellegant remarks and comments Ex, but now that you have reached the limits of what you are willing to undertand you have become boring. And your comments are now lame.

QUOTE

I doubt many Mormons hang out on Eastern Orthodox web sites arguing that St. John Chrystostom was a nasty anti-Semite, or that its hierarchy was too influenced by Byzantine politics, or that baklava is sacriligious.

I doubt many Mormons have even heard of St. John Chrysostom, let alone ancient Byzantium!

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

The point is You always come to the Mormon site. If you have found truth and peace elsewhere why do you return "here"?

Go away and make your self a happier person. You deserve it. :)