Children's Lack Of Respect

[StrawberryFields]

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property?

Cal started a thread that questions a parent¡Çs option to discipline their child with a spanking. I remember being spanked a few times as a child and I remember it quite clearly. It was something I would want to avoid happening again so I toed the mark for the most part. Then Dr Spock came out with his book stating how wrong it was and the trend started to go towards the "time out" phase which we used mostly in raising our children. Now many kids live in the land of "I want and I will get" and they usually do. We are now trying to undo some of the damage we did to our children from sparing the rod and spoiling the child. Of course we will not to spanking our 20, 18, and 15 year old children but we will be expecting more from them. Gone are the days when they can abuse our things without a price. After replacing several transmissions in vehicles that we own, and let our children use, or more stupidly abuse we will do it no more.

I believe that there is a fine line in raising children who are never punished and grow up to feel entitled to have it all and those who are disciplined to learn to work and become self sufficient. I believe that with the taking away of spanking parents in some respects lost their ability to punish and teach there children through discipline.

Most children get away with so much more then we did as a children and they lack respect for authority. Parents have lost so many rights and I believe that it is reflected in our society.

[Amillia]

Nanny 911 clearly teaches the principles of teaching children respect. It starts with parents teaching this principle by example.

They have to show each other respect, and show respect to the children. I don't believe this includes allowing children to run amuck.

Infact, allowing children to run amuck is one of the most definite ways of showing disrespect for them.

Showing consistent, caring, firm standards ~expecting and accepting only the best standards, is one of the ways to get children to show respect for themselves and others.

One example:

When a child does a sloppy job in cleaning his room, if you point out how it isn't up to the standard such a fine lad would produce ~ using only positive imaging of who this child is and how he should treat himself better by keeping his living space in order ~ ~ then the child starts to see himself as better and more respected person and when he feels respected by himself and others, he shows that respect to others.

I heard it stated a long time ago ~ that we learn what we live:

We learn what we live

If we live with encouragement, we learn to be confident.

If we live with praise, we larn to appreciate.

If we live with approval, we learn to like ourselves.

If we live with acceptance, we learn to lfind love in the world.

If we live with recognition, we learn to have a goal.

If we live with sharing, we learn to be generous.

If we live with honesty and fairness, we learn what truth and justice are.

If we live with security, we learn to have faith in ourselves and those around us.

If we live with Friendliness, we learn that the world is a nice place in which to live. Dorthy L. Nolte

If we live with respect, being shown to us, we learn to respect for others.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 15 2005, 08:07 AM

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property?

Do not concur. It's not the children. It's the parents. As you rear, so shall you reap.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 15 2005, 10:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 15 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Mar 15 2005, 08:07 AM

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property?

Do not concur. It's not the children. It's the parents. As you rear, so shall you reap.

I agree, Snow, it is the parents, but when they are taught this, as SF said, how do you reverse the trend and start teaching parents that the first step is that they be parents instead of friends? That is the problem I see at my house. I am a disciplinarian. I was spanked frequently as a child, of course, spankings gave way to writing sentences which gave way to sit down talks. But those sit down talks did not come till I was old enough to reason, probably 12-14years old, or so. The sentences came when I was in 3rd grade, or so, and continued for many years. My husband was raised with a strict father, but a very lenient mother. And when his father sent the kids off to their room alone, or without dinner, his mother would go behind his back and bring them food, or allow the other kids to play with them, etc. What does a child learn from that? To manipulate the system, that's what. He feels we should only try to reason with our 6 year old daughter. When I have tried stronger measures (when he is home), he goes behind my back and undoes all that I have done.

He is gone four days a week (on average) for his job, and when he is gone, and I am home, our daughter is more strictly disciplined, and is quite well behaved. When he is home, and forbids my discipline, she is up in the middle of the night every night, she doesn't eat, she throws temper tantrums, etc. The biggest problem is the disparity between the discipline styles, and she knows what she can get away with from each parent. I see no benefit in being lenient. They grow up self-absorbed, and have no concept of respect, either for their parents or property.

I don't spank frequently, but I do spank. I take away privileges, she goes to be early, or without dinner (if she refuses to eat what I serve), etc. And if the behavior continues, yes I spank. I think she is more upset that I am upset with her than she is with the swat on the bottom. She is not afraid of me because I don't hurt her, she just knows that she has been not acting right when it happens, and that upsets her. Children really do want to please their parents, and if you give them no goals to work toward, there is no aim in their life. One of those goals should be how to act in public, another should be how to respect adults (particularly their parents.)

We should respect them, too, but I believe that not holding kids to a higher bar is disrespecting them.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Amillia@Mar 15 2005, 01:27 PM

Nanny 911 clearly teaches the principles of teaching children respect. It starts with parents teaching this principle by example.

They have to show each other respect, and show respect to the children. I don't believe this includes allowing children to run amuck.

Infact, allowing children to run amuck is one of the most definite ways of showing disrespect for them.

Showing consistent, caring, firm standards ~expecting and accepting only the best standards, is one of the ways to get children to show respect for themselves and others.

I also enjoy watching Nanny 911 and Super Nanny especially with my husband. It illustrates some techniques that I tried when my children were young. I set limits and enforced rules consistently.

Yes, I agree that children are very intuitive and they pick up on it when one parent does not support (respect) the other parents rules. They quickly learn how to "work" the system which is broken.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 15 2005, 11:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 15 2005, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Mar 15 2005, 08:07 AM

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property?

Do not concur. It's not the children. It's the parents. As you rear, so shall you reap.

Snow, I agree with you to a point that if the parents don't create a respectful environment the child will walk all over them.

The "Child Abuse Platform" has many children feeling that they are entitled to be treated without any discipline. As I look at my kids who are really pretty good kids I remember them using this as a guilt ploy with me when I would take away a privilege. Right behind the guilt trip would be their father telling me to "relax" or to "back off" that I was wrong. Then I look at parents who really have problems who children are involved in crimes or gang activity. What went wrong there?

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 16 2005, 08:11 AM

I agree, Snow, it is the parents, but when they are taught this, as SF said, how do you reverse the trend and start teaching parents that the first step is that they be parents instead of friends? That is the problem I see at my house. I am a disciplinarian. I was spanked frequently as a child, of course, spankings gave way to writing sentences which gave way to sit down talks. But those sit down talks did not come till I was old enough to reason, probably 12-14years old, or so. The sentences came when I was in 3rd grade, or so, and continued for many years. My husband was raised with a strict father, but a very lenient mother. And when his father sent the kids off to their room alone, or without dinner, his mother would go behind his back and bring them food, or allow the other kids to play with them, etc. What does a child learn from that? To manipulate the system, that's what. He feels we should only try to reason with our 6 year old daughter. When I have tried stronger measures (when he is home), he goes behind my back and undoes all that I have done.

He is gone four days a week (on average) for his job, and when he is gone, and I am home, our daughter is more strictly disciplined, and is quite well behaved. When he is home, and forbids my discipline, she is up in the middle of the night every night, she doesn't eat, she throws temper tantrums, etc. The biggest problem is the disparity between the discipline styles, and she knows what she can get away with from each parent. I see no benefit in being lenient. They grow up self-absorbed, and have no concept of respect, either for their parents or property.

I don't spank frequently, but I do spank. I take away privileges, she goes to be early, or without dinner (if she refuses to eat what I serve), etc. And if the behavior continues, yes I spank. I think she is more upset that I am upset with her than she is with the swat on the bottom. She is not afraid of me because I don't hurt her, she just knows that she has been not acting right when it happens, and that upsets her. Children really do want to please their parents, and if you give them no goals to work toward, there is no aim in their life. One of those goals should be how to act in public, another should be how to respect adults (particularly their parents.)

We should respect them, too, but I believe that not holding kids to a higher bar is disrespecting them.

Jenda,

I think that we both might have a similar problem here with me being several hard years ahead of you because my children are older.

My husband had a childhood where he didn't have very much in the way of material possessions and I on the other had had quite a bit. His father is not the most positive person in the world and I believe that he did not practice what he preached when it comes to raising children. When my children where young he would always say to use that "You can never give your children too much love". He would often tell us this after I had disciplined one of the kids. I believe that my husband took these words to mean give your children everything. After three children I felt that I still wanted more but my husband said no. He said that he wanted to provide them with many of the things that he didn't have as a child. My ideal was not placed in the material possessions...it is placed in the dynamics of the family. My husband has worked very hard providing our family every worldly possession.

I believe that all of these things he has worked towards are just surface things. When the kids really have a problem they come to me because I am solid and they know where I stand on issues. My husband has practiced the parenting skill of do nothing until it is really bad and then makes unrealistic threats that everyone knows he will never see through to the end. Many times I have wanted to throw in the towel and give up because it is just too hard to fight this kind of battle. The reality is that we can't because the stakes are too high with our children. I have even begged him to take just one aspect of parenting such as curfew. This worked for about two months and then he just refused to stay up and wait for them. I have even considered forcing him to step up the plate from my default but he was just oblivious to the problem. Now my oldest is married and he still shows very little respect for things that are important to me. He and his wife came for dinner awhile back and just as I had brought the last thing to the table he farted. This is something he used to do before he was married and I would ask him to leave the room and my husband would just grin and shake his head. This time I told him that it would be a long time before I invited him back to dinner at my house. ERRRR

I can now also see my influence in his life as he prepares to buy his first house and he will call me for advice. When he began making money he asked me many things about managing it and he also learned from me to shop for bargains which have been a passion of mine.

Yes being liked and "worshipped" by his children has been a quest of my husbands that he has accomplished. Having my children grow up as responsible, community serving adults is something I am still working on. Going to parent teachers conferences and hearing that our child doesn¡Çt turn in assignments and something that I won't do alone. I insist that he go with me on because she isn't made to do much at home either.

BTW, When one of our children disrespects their father and I hear it I still correct them. When they do the same to me when he is around he just sits there oblivious to what just occurred. They are getting older now, and they know what is happening, I wonder how long they will continue to really think that their father is swell.

[pushka]

I agree with you all that it is extremely difficult to discipline your children when the 2 parents disagree on the correct methods to be used...I know that this was the situation with me and my ex husband, he was for smacking, I was for talking it over and trying to reach a reasonable conclusion, sometimes the children gave in completely to what I wanted from them, sometimes we compromised...we can get it wrong as parents too you know!

I don't agree that giving love to your child should equal giving them/buying them everything they desire...I do believe in teaching them to save up for things, work for spending money and respect the fact that families have to survive on a budget so teaching them patience too...I don't always get this right tho, and must admit it is very difficult to not give in to a little appealing face, pleading for a game, (which is my son's tactic as opposed to throwing a tantrum)...but, there has to be a point at which he takes no for an answer, and more and more, as he grows older, he has been learning this.

My children are more unruly, less disciplined when they are with me...yes they are very 'obedient' to their dad when they stay at his house, but they have little respect for him because he shouts at them and threatens them with violence if they don't co-operate...at my house I am still learning to be more disciplined with my children, to teach us all how to co-operate to get things done around the house...cooking, cleaning etc. which they are now at an age to take more of a role in...but my children are generally happier at my house, they say, we take time out to sit together watching programmes, or playing games...they are able to have friends over for sleepovers, videos and trips to the cinema or shopping, which they don't at their dad's house...

Also, tonight we attended my son's first Parents Evening at his Secondary School...the reports were fantastic...he's an average pupil, so I'm not necessarily commenting on the quality of his work, though that was acceptable...it was the way in which all of the teachers we saw praised Daniel for his gentle nature, kindness, caring and helpfulness...they saw that his sister Rebecca was with us and praised her behaviour too...they said that they were both a credit to us as parents, and we were very proud of that... :)

[Traveler]

Not all children are the same - even in the same family.

I have always felt there is a difference between teaching and training. Things like protocol (respect) are trained not taught. A dog can be trained to respect.

Values on the other hand must be taught - but I often see parents trying to train their children concerning values.

In case anyone is wondering - training involves positive and negitive reinforcement with specific behavior in mind. Teaching requires the learner to make logical associations. For example - Explaning to a child that if they do not share others may not want to play with them. Or certain characters make sounds to form words. Punishing a child for not learning is counter productive. For example - punishing a child for not sharing often has negative effects in their understanding a concept and may instill in them a value of being selfish.

I think it is a shame when parents so full of foolish ideas that they will exert greater effort and concern to train their pets than they will their children.

The Traveler

[Cal]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 15 2005, 09:07 AM

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property?

Cal started a thread that questions a parent¡Çs option to discipline their child with a spanking. I remember being spanked a few times as a child and I remember it quite clearly. It was something I would want to avoid happening again so I toed the mark for the most part. Then Dr Spock came out with his book stating how wrong it was and the trend started to go towards the "time out" phase which we used mostly in raising our children. Now many kids live in the land of "I want and I will get" and they usually do. We are now trying to undo some of the damage we did to our children from sparing the rod and spoiling the child. Of course we will not to spanking our 20, 18, and 15 year old children but we will be expecting more from them. Gone are the days when they can abuse our things without a price. After replacing several transmissions in vehicles that we own, and let our children use, or more stupidly abuse we will do it no more.

I believe that there is a fine line in raising children who are never punished and grow up to feel entitled to have it all and those who are disciplined to learn to work and become self sufficient. I believe that with the taking away of spanking parents in some respects lost their ability to punish and teach there children through discipline.

Most children get away with so much more then we did as a children and they lack respect for authority. Parents have lost so many rights and I believe that it is reflected in our society.

The logical error of "black and white, either or" thinking.

Your posting implies that without spanking a parent cannot set limits and hold a child accountable. Nothing is further from the truth. Yes, it may require that the PARENT show some self restraint---heaven forbid we model self restraint for our kids.

I seriously doubt that the lack of spanking is the reason kids feel "entitled". The wrongful sense of entitlement that some kids exhibit comes from a parent who sets no limits, enforces no rules and basically lets the kid do what ever he/she wants. What does that have to do with spanking.

The only parent who has no "tools" in his/her arsenal besides spanking is not armed very well. Be a little thoughtful about it and you can come up with plenty of tools to hold kids accountable--and they work a hell of a lot better than spanking.

My philosophy, and I've raised 4 kids who turned out very well, hold kids accountable, but NEVER let them think you don't TRUST them. Once you do, you've lost them, no matter how much spanking you do. Keep your self under control, but thoughtful before you act and don't give them TOO MUCH to rebel against. They will often surprise you at their own good judgement.

On the other hand, there are some kids who will drive you crazy until the day you die, and you won't be able to do a thing about it, and spanking won't help. If you get one of those genetic mutants, just look up to the sky, and ask, in a very loud voice, "Why me, Lord?"

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Cal@Mar 17 2005, 08:00 PM

Your posting implies that without spanking a parent cannot set limits and hold a child accountable.

WHERE does it imply this?

Cal, you misinterpreted my post and nothing could be further from the truth.

What I DID say was that as corporal punishment became frowned upon by the vast majority of the people, parents were not being trained in other methods of discipline that worked. Children grew to have more rights then parents as the Child Abuse Phenomenon became in Vogue. Sure, there are real cases of child abuse and I don't condone an adult beating up on a child or visa-versa. I am a believer that there are better ways of teaching children while also empowering them with their own natural consequences.

Now tell me just where you got the information that I was pro-spanking?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Mar 18 2005, 08:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Mar 18 2005, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Mar 17 2005, 08:00 PM

Your posting implies that without spanking a parent cannot set limits and hold a child accountable.

WHERE does it imply this?

Cal, you misinterpreted my post and nothing could be further from the truth.

What I DID say was that as corporal punishment became frowned upon by the vast majority of the people, parents were not being trained in other methods of discipline that worked. Children grew to have more rights then parents as the Child Abuse Phenomenon became in Vogue. Sure, there are real cases of child abuse and I don't condone an adult beating up on a child or visa-versa. I am a believer that there are better ways of teaching children while also empowering them with their own natural consequences.

Now tell me just where you got the information that I was pro-spanking?

Strawberry,

You wrote:

I believe that with the taking away of spanking parents in some respects lost their ability to punish and teach there children through discipline.

YOu implied that parents can't effectively set limits without spanking. Read what you wrote.

If I misinterpreted your real position, you helped me do it.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Cal@Mar 18 2005, 01:32 PM

If I misinterpreted your real position, you helped me do it.

DID NOT!

Yeah, in those particular words you quoted from my post, I can see where you might misinterprut my position.

[Setheus]

I agree, its "mostly" the parents. Look at how discipline has changed. Before when you did something wrong it was a smack on the but and go to your room . Now its

"why did u do that? how did that make u feel?" bull crud....

But at the same time. People make their own choices and if they truly want to be bad then no ammount of discipline will change that. For some cases even the spirit of the Lord won't change their ways. But that is a rare few.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Setheus@Mar 18 2005, 03:27 PM

I agree, its "mostly" the parents. Look at how discipline has changed. Before when you did something wrong it was a smack on the but and go to your room . Now its

"why did u do that? how did that make u feel?" bull crud....

But at the same time. People make their own choices and if they truly want to be bad then no ammount of discipline will change that. For some cases even the spirit of the Lord won't change their ways. But that is a rare few.

When you say "bull crud" do you believe the new way to be better or worse then the old way of discipline?

To me the old way was...You do something wrong and the parents will punish you.

The new way is...You do something wrong and you punish yourself IF the parents will follow through with it and natural consequences follow.

[Setheus]

It just depends. If you knew it was wrong and did it then u need parents to punish you. If you had no clue what u did to be wrong then allow the natural consiquenses to follow.

its the difference between ignorance and stupidity.