Close minded

[mlbrowninwa]

I just don't understand how some people can be so closed minded to religion. Not just the latter day saints, but all denominations. As most of you know, I was baptized a member of the LDS church a couple weeks ago. My son will become a member next weekend. As my wife wants nothing to do with church, i have made sure that she wasn't around during any of the discussions and do not bring up church stuff when she is around. I do my scripture reading at lunch or when she's not home. Even though she told me that she would not stand in my way, I guess that doesn't mean she will not take shots when ever she feels the need.

I guess my rant is based on how closed minded she and other people are. All of my family and friends have supported me with my decision and ask questions of me wanting to know more about our beliefs. They all quickly learn that we have much more in common than they thought. They are willing to put aside what they have "heard" about the church and trust in someone they have known all their lives. Why can't my wife of 17 years do the same? I know there is little i can do at this point other than to leave this in the hands of Heavenly Father and pray about it daily.

[Guest Godless]

Your wife may be unaware that she's offending you. I've been guilty of that before. Most of my closest friends are either atheists or simply not religious, so I've gotten used to talking critically about religion without having to worry about offending people. A couple of years ago I was dating a girl who was a fairly devout Catholic, and more than once I upset her with some off-handed remark that I had made. I felt bad afterward because I always had nothing but the utmost of respect for her religious beliefs, and I never intended to make light of her faith. Perhaps your wife is on the same boat.

I also can't help noting that it seems that you're going to unnecessary lengths to keep your religious faith from interfering with your marriage. I see no reason why you can't read the scriptures in your wife's presence. You should be able to practice your religion around her even if you're not trying to push her to join you and your son.

[prospectmom]

Sometimes sarcasm, rude remarks when made by a spouse are done in a defensive manner. She may feel a bit threatened by your decision and a bit scared. She may be more interested than she lets on because of her fear and I would guess some nay sayers who have her ear. Keep praying and even talk to your Bishop you may need a blessing for some direction on this matter. You do not need to hide your scripture reading .... make it a natural part of your evening. Saying prayers as a family can be just that not denominational just family prayer. Keep it honest and simple.... Just some ideas. I hope all goes well for you and your family.

[prisonchaplain]

To draw an analogy, I'd say your spouse may be cool, distant, and defensive about your religion because you are her spouse. If her colleague at work, or the postal deliverer, or the clerk at the store suddenly changed religions, she might well ask a few questions, and show at least mild interest. BUT, you are her other 1/2--one that has suddenly changed. She may be shocked, scared, and most certainly uncertain. You've just turned over the apple cart, it's landed on her, and you smile, act polite, and wonder why she's so upset.

Prospectmom might be right. The Apostle Paul certainly is. In 1 Corinthians 7 he says that when a conversion takes place, the new believer must live the best, most godly example possible before the unbelieving spouse. Who knows, he asks--maybe she'll come around. No guarantees, but love and patience are the best hope.

[LDSVALLEY]

prospectmom and prisonchaplain have both made excellent points. Let me add my experience. My wife and I both joined 14 years ago but we are the only members of either family who are LDS. At first they were indifferent to hostile about our choice. We got every anti mormon story out there from them. For the first 2 to 4 years we were as you are being now. We kept it private and didn't bring the church up around any of them. While we thought this was being responsible and avoiding issues we came to realize we were mistaken.

With our children growing, oldest was 1 when we were baptized, it was becoming harder to not act the same around family as we did in our own home. We became more open about the church and allowed them to see the benefit it was for ourselves and our family. Overtime they have come to not only except our membership but to join in on occasion. Both our families helped make our children baptisms a special event, have attended Church nativity events every year for the last 10 years. Watched our kids so we could go to the temple etc. My mother who threatened to never speak to me if I ever sent the Missionaries after her has taken them meals at Thanksgiving when some ended up living on her street for a couple of years.

They respect our not buying on Sunday now when before would be put off by it. Or our not working on Sunday around the house etc. Last week I was having supper with some of my family and they started asking questions about the church and I spent an hour answering. They were even asking if our kids would be going on missions or not and thought it was a good idea!

The point is if you don't force your faith on others, and if you don't hide your faith from others, but simply live your faith it will have a positive influence on others. It will be harder for you then me, at least my wife and I supported each other. And you will have to walk a fine line between harmony in the home and living your new faith. But if you stay the course opportunities will arise that allow you to chip away at the walls around a closed mind. As the others have said in part your wife is on the defense and worried about what this will do to your relationship. And I can almost promise Satan will put many negative influences in her path. But if she sees the benefit the gospel gives her through your conversion she will soften.

Will mine or my wife's family ever join the church, not likely, but they now support us in our joining. Your wife will walk her path as much as you might want her on the gospel path the only way she can get there is with her agency. We are to do all we can and then as you already said let the Lord take care of the rest, and from experience he makes things happen that we would never expect, in his time.

[mlbrowninwa]

Thank you one and all for your responses. I'm just going to continue to pray about this and hope she comes around at some point. Don't know if it helps or not, but she has some co-workers that are members of the church, one of them being the person that gave me my first copy of the Book of Mormon several years ago. They have sent messages of support to me through her, so i know they have been talking about it. I made a few attempts to talk to her about it, but get shot down rather quickly.

I might be expecting too much. My daughter who is 17 and not attending with me either, was uneasy at first, but she was open enough to sit down and have a talk with me. Once i explained some things about how the church works, she was very understanding about it. She thought the missionaries were going to be at the house every other day, lol. We had a nice talk and she said she completely supports my decision, even though she does not want to join. I completely understand and respect her decision. She talks to the missionaries when they are at the house and has even joined me at some social functions and had fun meeting new people. I think that at some point we are going to have to talk about these things, I guess that I will have to wait until she is ready.

[its_Chet]

The point is if you don't force your faith on others, and if you don't hide your faith from others, but simply live your faith it will have a positive influence on others.

As a convert, this has been my experience with my mother. She was never openly hostile to the Church after I joined, but for long afterward she was openly critical and dismissive of some of our more peculiar doctrines.

About a year ago she asked me what the deal was with land in north western Missouri. She asked without any attitude, positive or negative, and I answered the same way, just matter of factly, short and sweet.

Things are much better now than they were at first. She still may never accept the Gospel, but at least there's a lot more peace now.

[avatar4321]

I would caution you on speaking badly about your spouse. Even on an anonymous message board. I would also urge you to love her even more now. Keep her in your prayers and have faith. Ive seen miracles happen.

[jadams_4040]

I just don't understand how some people can be so closed minded to religion. Not just the latter day saints, but all denominations. As most of you know, I was baptized a member of the LDS church a couple weeks ago. My son will become a member next weekend. As my wife wants nothing to do with church, i have made sure that she wasn't around during any of the discussions and do not bring up church stuff when she is around. I do my scripture reading at lunch or when she's not home. Even though she told me that she would not stand in my way, I guess that doesn't mean she will not take shots when ever she feels the need.

I guess my rant is based on how closed minded she and other people are. All of my family and friends have supported me with my decision and ask questions of me wanting to know more about our beliefs. They all quickly learn that we have much more in common than they thought. They are willing to put aside what they have "heard" about the church and trust in someone they have known all their lives. Why can't my wife of 17 years do the same? I know there is little i can do at this point other than to leave this in the hands of Heavenly Father and pray about it daily.

And when that spirit comes around avisiting; make sure ya let her know what it is.:)

[Islander]

My wife and I are both converts. My mother in-law is a sweetheart. She had no clue why her daughter wanted to leave the traditions of her fathers and become something else. She was never critical or hostile towards me or the Church but she was not happy. My other in-laws (my wife's bros, sisters and their husbands/wives) in the other hand, made fun (behind my back), criticized us, antagonized with us and even spoke to our children in negative terms about the Church. We stopped letting them go by themselves to visit (they live just down the street from us).

Fast forward 5 years. Two years ago on Thanksgiving I offered a prayer at dinner time. After meals we went walking and some of my in-laws that stayed behind started their favorite sport (Mormon-bashing) infront of our children. My MIL was present and told them she found them (comments) offensive, disrespectful and dishonest. She asked them "what is so bad about believing in Christ, trusting in God and honoring one's wife and family? What is so bad about not getting intoxicated every weekend and going out with the guys to the strip joints like so-and-so-your-husbands-and-brothers?" It is all on tape. They were recording the kids doing Karaoke when the exchange happened. They still don't care but they have never said another word about it.

I baptized my mother in-law and one of my brothers in law a year ago. I bit my tongue too many times to count. Anyone that knows me also know that I am not the tongue-biting-kind. I still have, after 10 years of being converted, somewhat of a difficult time "turning in the other chick". In years past, I would have dislocated somebody's jaw without letting go of my turkey dinner plate if they would have offended me or my wife like that. But I kept my peace.

I am getting better and these issues with the family helped. Great are the rewards that come from listening to the Spirit and the scriptures:

"And faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work.

Remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence.

Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Amen." D&C 4.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Islander

[mlbrowninwa]

Islander I hear you. I too have struggled over the years with a quick temper and speaking before thinking. Another one of my biggest problems over the years has been patience. I need that here. It is going to take time and I need to keep that in mind. Joining the church was a big deal for me and her in a different way. My son and I was talking last night about his up coming baptism in a couple days and she at least joined in the conversation in a positive fashion. So that was nice. It will be interesting to see if she comes to the ceremony.

[Elphaba]

Why can't my wife of 17 years do the same?

I think I have some perspective others might not, and I write the following, which is admittedly harsh, only to suggest what she might be feeling. I am writing it as if I know where she is coming from, when I am actually only guessing based on your description of her behavior. I just don’t want to preface each sentence with “If this is how she feels. . . .“

Nothing I’ve written below is to condemn your choices or actions. So keep in mind, if you’re saying to yourself, as you read along “That’s not right,” just know I’ll believe you.

From your wife’s perspective, you have changed the status quo she was happy with for 17 years. You have split up the couple the two of you previously were by joining a church she despises, and since you did so against her wishes, she feels dismissed, excluded and most of all, betrayed.

Your conversion demonstrates to her that the worldview you both shared for 17 years, and which she still adheres to, was never valid to begin with. You have chosen to reject that worldview, and thus reject her beliefs, all for a church she believes is wrong.

You joined the Church as a person, not as the couple you are, and, in fact, for the time being that couple no longer exists. She is your wife, not the Church, yet when you join the Church your responsibilities change, physically and emotionally. There are times when you are going to have to put her second and the Church first, and in choosing to do so, you’ve chosen to exclude her, all for a belief she thinks is false.

To top it off, you've converted her son to a church she despises, picking at the wound she already feels by all of the above.

Okay, I think that’s enough to give you an idea of where she might be coming from. So, if I'm right, what do you do? You ask her if this is what she’s feeling, and if she says yes, you explain to her that you understand it.

Then you prove you understand it by validating her feelings as often as possible. Don't just say "I understand how you feel." You say, "I understand you feel like I betrayed you," and then do something, every day, to prove you didn't.

Hopefully, with time, if she sees you still place her first in your life, combined with her realization that your commitment to the Church is real and permanent, she will probably come around to accepting it. Perhaps not, but I can almost guarantee you that if you don’t validate her feelings about your conversion, your marriage will suffer.

The bottom line is, you are the one who changed her marriage, and expecting her to make changes to accommodate you, when she is so vociferously opposed to your choice, is unrealistic in the immediate future.

Again, if you can acknowledge this to her, it might help.

Take it or leave it.

Elphaba