blusun7 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well seems like the scriptures are filled everyday almost. Apostasy is taught before the coming of the lord. Whether atheist or not it cannot be denied that it is taught in the bible and is actually happen. I dont mean to offend any atheist on hear but i saw this headline and was like..What!!!???Atheists choose 'de-baptism' to renounce childhood faith - USATODAY.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditioSalvatus Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well seems like the scriptures are filled everyday almost. Apostasy is taught before the coming of the lord. Whether atheist or not it cannot be denied that it is taught in the bible and is actually happen. I dont mean to offend any atheist on hear but i saw this headline and was like..What!!!???The bible is a lot like a Peter Jackson film: cram enough stuff into an overly long piece of work and something is bound to come true and everyone will find something they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Bizarre......seems like they have just left one religion and joined another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freckleface Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 . . . I now pronounce thee officially debaptized. Let the blowing begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Michel Onfray has been doing unbaptisms for a while. I'm concerned about this trend, since the only reason to do this would be to: A) Spite God (Who you claim doesn't exist) or; B) Provide proof to the world that you don't believe in God, which suggests that the 'world' in this case hates the idea of God. Others will claim that they did it to start the healing process of leaving religion, etc, but those arguments don't really hold water if they truly believe God doesn't exist. For some time, I wondered what the long term consequences of being unbaptized is, but who would have authority to unbaptize? And is it really necessary if you're living your life specifically to (On the one hand) spite God and on the other to advocate that he doesn't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyando Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Father's, Mother's, be strong. Do not let your children use a hair dryer with out adult supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The next logical step is unbaptisms for the dead. But I wonder if mainstream atheists will dismiss those who indulge in this practice as "un-atheists"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freckleface Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The Rev. Tom Wubby trains and ordains people to become 'debaptisers.' They unbaptise dead people, and can prevent future baptisms from happening (or so they say). What a bunch of whackaloons. They're currently working on debaptising all the founding fathers and world leaders, but he was too tired to write about it because he's so busy. What a nutter. Their logo is a blow dryer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The Rev. Tom Wubby trains and ordains people to become 'debaptisers.' They unbaptise dead people, and can prevent future baptisms from happening (or so they say). What a bunch of whackaloons.They're currently working on debaptising all the founding fathers and world leaders, but he was too tired to write about it because he's so busy. What a nutter. Their logo is a blow dryer. I would say that is fairly scary stuff. Not that they can prevent future baptisms or that they can or do have the authority to do so, but that he is leading so many astray.Scary stuff. I wonder what the solution is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalShadow Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 As an atheist, I think it's rather silly, but if you really need a symbolic gesture of your de-conversion, I don't see anything wrong with it. For some reason humans are big on ceremonies even outside religion. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw the hair dryer part in the article... almost spit my Mountain Dew out on my monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm sorry, but to me the whole idea of doing an 'unbaptism' lends credence to the validity of the concept of baptism. If there is no God, why bother telling Him you don't want to be part of Him? Just walk away and believe no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalShadow Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm sorry, but to me the whole idea of doing an 'unbaptism' lends credence to the validity of the concept of baptism. If there is no God, why bother telling Him you don't want to be part of Him? Just walk away and believe no more.I don't think it's about telling God you're no longer following, I think it's about a symbolic gesture. If the person thinks the whole thing is anything more than symbolism, they kind of missed the point.With that said, if you don't have to strength to just walk away and not look back, I really don't think a silly ceremony will do much for you, but as I said, people like their ceremonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The next logical step is unbaptisms for the dead.But I wonder if mainstream atheists will dismiss those who indulge in this practice as "un-atheists"?Actually their is a guy who will commit sins for the dead as a response to the lds baptisms for the dead.Read about him a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I don't think it's about telling God you're no longer following, I think it's about a symbolic gesture. If the person thinks the whole thing is anything more than symbolism, they kind of missed the point.With that said, if you don't have to strength to just walk away and not look back, I really don't think a silly ceremony will do much for you, but as I said, people like their ceremonies.I concur. I also think it is about others. I don't believe in Santa, but let my kids put out cookies for him every year. The symbolism speaks to them.In this case the participants may not believe but most likely some of their family and friend do and so the symbolism speaks to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freckleface Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I would say that is fairly scary stuff. Not that they can prevent future baptisms or that they can or do have the authority to do so, but that he is leading so many astray.Scary stuff. I wonder what the solution is.I see these folks on the same level as the lady on the outskirts of town with her crystal ball peasant top, and big gold earrings. But I'll bet you a toosie pop, Funky Town, some of em' be lining up in a few years to get rebaptised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Actually their is a guy who will commit sins for the dead as a response to the lds baptisms for the dead.Read about him a few months ago.That was the columnist--Kirby--in the SL Tribune, and his whole column was rather tongue-in-cheek as I recall. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The best thing I have gotten from this thread is the word wackaloons ... I love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViolinGirl Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Wouldn't it just be easier to give God the middle finger and tell him to go pound sand? Seriously, what is wrong with society today? What is so harmful about loving your neighbors and following God's commandments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Wouldn't it just be easier to give God the middle finger and tell him to go pound sand?Seriously, what is wrong with society today? What is so harmful about loving your neighbors and following God's commandments?Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 ok maybe its because I am not American but what the big deal ??? I don't see it as hugely different in mentality to me turning my back on my first Christian baptism when I became LDS. Its just a rite of passage - it means nothing to me and is about as affective as my baby christening -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) ok maybe its because I am not American but what the big deal ??? I don't see it as hugely different in mentality to me turning my back on my first Christian baptism when I became LDS. Its just a rite of passage - it means nothing to me and is about as affective as my baby christening-CharleyDepends how you mean a big deal, if you mean, "Oh my goodness! Look what they are doing! The offense, its oppresses!" then yeah I'm with you, 'course I've not seen any of that. If you mean, what's the big deal in why are people raising an eyebrow, its mostly because for most people being unbaptized implies the initial baptism has some sort of efficacy. It'd be like if I walked down the street and somebody blew bubbles in my direction and proclaimed me a member of the Church of Spongebob Squarepants and I went through the effort to be unbaptized from the Church of Spongebob Squarepants, the first baptism was poppycock, there is no reason to be unbaptized. Which is unless I'm totally off base what people are commenting about in this thread.As for other comments I realize symbolism and ritual isn't limited to religion (Atheists wear wedding rings for example), so I can understand how it could be cathartic even if you feel it as valid as a Spongebob bubble baptism as there is a lot more cultural and emotional baggage if you were brought up in something as opposed to the Spongebob hypothetical. Basically I can kinda see both sides of it. Edited July 23, 2009 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Depends how you mean a big deal, if you mean, "Oh my goodness! Look what they are doing! The offense, its oppresses!" then yeah I'm with you, 'course I've not seen any of that. If you mean, what's the big deal in why are people raising an eyebrow, its mostly because for most people being unbaptized implies the initial baptism has some sort of efficacy. It'd be like if I walked down the street and somebody blew bubbles in my direction and proclaimed me a member of the Church of Spongebob Squarepants and I went through the effort to be unbaptized from the Church of Spongebob Squarepants, the first baptism was poppycock, there is no reason to be unbaptized. Which is unless I'm totally off base what people are commenting about in this thread.This is basically how I feel about it. I was baptized into the LDS Church when I was 8 years old. That means nothing to me now, hence I feel no need to counteract it. I can understand the appeal of symbolic gestures to some people, but I personally have never been all that big on symbolism and rituals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) From a psychological standpoint, atheism is nothing but an attempt to find public approval and support (among like-minded individuals) for one's choice to deny the existence of and exclude God from one's life and reference. It is sort of a communal effort and statement of affirmation in-unison rejection of deity. The bottom line is that God interferes with some human's social agendas. For some, God's life plan and road map for us is too restrictive and limiting. The decision to utterly reject deity is fraught with such internal conflict and turmoil, the subconscious tension and anxiety it generates is such that some individuals spend enormous amounts of time, energy, money and resources in these cathartic "excision" rituals. (e.g "de-baptizing", protesting against religion, arguing in religious boards) The philosophical jundra is just window dressing/explanation for the decision. Let's look at it this way: if they are right and there is no God I'd still be OK and would have lived a, nice quiet and happy life with my wife and family. And they would have spent an extraordinary amount of time and energy fighting for nothing and arguing a complete intangible. But, if they are wrong, I would not want to be in their skin at the last day. Edited July 23, 2009 by Islander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Let's look at it this way: if they are right and there is no God I'd still be OK and would have lived a, nice quiet and happy life with my wife and family. And they would have spent an extraordinary amount of time and energy fighting for nothing and arguing a complete intangible. But, if they are wrong, I would not want to be in their skin at the last day.I think that depends on what "version" of God your speaking of. The extreme Traditional "Hellfire" christian God yes. But in the LDS Judged according to knowledge an Atheist who keeps the 10 commandments because they are good advice, is better off then a Christian who keeps them they "have to".IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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