Question to non LDS

[Maya]

I would like to know how you define the word saved, beeing saved??

What does it mean to you to be saved.. from what and to what and why??

[Galatians220]

Hi Maya, nice to see you again :)

Personally, I believe that the word, saved, means deliverance, or spared of something. I looked up the word in greek, the word Saved is "Sozo" The following is from Blue Letter Bible - Home Page (1)

1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

a) one (from injury or peril)

1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health

1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue

b) to save in the technical biblical sense

1) negatively

a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment

b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

In terms of Salvation, from what I see in Scripture, when one is saved, one is delivered from the ultimate penalty of Sin which is Eternal Damnation because for one, Jesus made a Promise... that if we believe, we have Eternal Life and so will never be numbered with the Unbelieving:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. - John 5:24

1. Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Edited July 30, 2009 by Galatians220

[Maya]

My time to say good night... I hope I have many good answers tomorrow here... Yes what you write Galatians is so beautiful and so true!

[deblldo]

Hi,

To be saved from death/sin. As a baptist i have been taught that once you realise you need a saviour to be saved from death, then you accept Jesus christ as the one who came to set us free. At this moment we are sealed with His holy spirit and we are sealed until the resurrection and jesus gives those saved eternal life.

hope this helps,

deb

[prisonchaplain]

Deb's answer is closer to the a doctrine in the Reform tradition called "the perserverance of the saints." The teaching is that God chooses who will be saved, and since they are chosen, they will not fail.

In contrast, I believe being saved means I don't have to go to hell and I get to spend eternity with Jesus Christ my Lord (and by implication, with the Father and Holy Ghost as well). BTW, my eternity begins the moment of my salvation. God resides with me now. Further, in the pentecostal tradition, we believe salvation is not only spiritual. It is physical and emotional. I can pray and believe God for healing. Further, I can live in peace, or emotional soundness. More in line with the LDS doctrine of agency then, I do see the possiblity of losing my salvation, if I neglect it chronically, and shut my ears to the Spirit. On the other hand, such a course would be difficult, since God chases after us.

[dazed-and-confused]

[ More in line with the LDS doctrine of agency then, I do see the possiblity of losing my salvation, if I neglect it chronically, and shut my ears to the Spirit. On the other hand, such a course would be difficult, since God chases after us.

LOL....right you are PC. HF does chase after us, as I can attest to from MANY personal experiences.

What's the old saying?....patience of a saint?........

Well....we ARE talking about GOD, afterall.

Sometimes when i hear some people talking about being saved, i wonder if they know what it REALLY means. And that is when i thank the Spirit for the whisper, it's not my place. That is between them and HF and has little, if anything, to do with me.

I've never liked the whole "we're right and you're wrong" stuff, so when i find myself having those kinds of feelings/thoughts, i try to put them in check real fast. I am where i am because this is where i feel i've been led.....and it feels like home. I'm sure that others feel that as well in their own churches....at least, i hope they do. I do believe that it is a perfect world.

[Galatians220]

Deb's answer is closer to the a doctrine in the Reform tradition called "the perserverance of the saints." The teaching is that God chooses who will be saved, and since they are chosen, they will not fail.

In contrast, I believe being saved means I don't have to go to hell and I get to spend eternity with Jesus Christ my Lord (and by implication, with the Father and Holy Ghost as well). BTW, my eternity begins the moment of my salvation. God resides with me now. Further, in the pentecostal tradition, we believe salvation is not only spiritual. It is physical and emotional. I can pray and believe God for healing. Further, I can live in peace, or emotional soundness. More in line with the LDS doctrine of agency then, I do see the possiblity of losing my salvation, if I neglect it chronically, and shut my ears to the Spirit. On the other hand, such a course would be difficult, since God chases after us.

I'm in full agreement there Brother :)

[fatima]

To my personal faith, no doubt shaped by my fervent love of my Catholic faith, to be "saved" is to be spared the just punishment due to us from the sins we commit. We must freely choose to co-operate with the grace of Almighty God, though. At any time we may reject Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

[Maya]

So in many ways we all believe the same about "beeing saved". It beeing a hope for forgiveness and eternal life.

However there is a couple of things I wonder. Please give reasons to your answer.

Who will be saved?

Only those that belong to your church?

Do also those who never hear about Christ have a possibility to be saved?

How about those that have got some parts of the gospel "wrong" like not believing in trinity or islamites what about christians, hindues, buddhists?

What about small children who die without beeing babtized?

What about those that die without beeing babtized as their parents wont allow them?

[fatima]

So in many ways we all believe the same about "beeing saved". It beeing a hope for forgiveness and eternal life.

However there is a couple of things I wonder. Please give reasons to your answer.

Who will be saved?

Only those that belong to your church?

Do also those who never hear about Christ have a possibility to be saved?

How about those that have got some parts of the gospel "wrong" like not believing in trinity or islamites what about christians, hindues, buddhists?

What about small children who die without beeing babtized?

What about those that die without beeing babtized as their parents wont allow them?

I cannot be the judge of who will be saved and who will not. What I can tell you (although I do not have time to look up the passages) is that as far as my Catholic faith teaches, all those who seek Truth will be saved. Naturally, God knows our innermost thoughts, desires, etc. We cannot fool him, so if we do not know Truth because we choose to not know Truth then we are culpable for our ignorance. If our view on Truth is skewed because we have been wrongly taught, or if we've been abused (again, in the case of Catholicism, those who have been abused by a priest) by clergy, parents or other "teacher" of that Truth, our responsibility would be diminished.

As for infant Baptism, I can only trust in God's Mercy. I do believe, as the Catholic Church teaches, that there is "baptism of desire", so that these precious ones do, indeed, see the face of God. We cannot overlook the theological Truth that every man, woman and child needs the Savior and His Sacrifice to enter Heaven. That begs the question, "what do they need to be saved from?" Another topic, I suppose.

[prisonchaplain]

Who will be saved?

Jesus is the gatekeeper. He is the only Way. Those who receive his mercy, grace and forgiveness will be saved.

Only those that belong to your church?

Close. Only those who belong to my Savior.

Do also those who never hear about Christ have a possibility to be saved?

This is a hotly debated topic. Is general revelation (i.e. the witness of an ordered creation, expressions of unconditional love, etc) enough to convert a soul, minus a specific presentation of the Good News? I'm aware that LDS theology answers this question specifically, but for me, my faith in God's justice, mercy, grace, and love are enough. I don't know the answer, but I know that come the Day of Judgment there will be no objections, and that all will say, "God is good, just, merciful and gracious."

How about those that have got some parts of the gospel "wrong" like not believing in trinity or islamites what about christians, hindues, buddhists?

Again, the surest answer is that God is just. So, we'd best evangelize with fervency, so that all will know. And yet, to those with ancestors who did not hear, my encouragement would be that God will surely do right by all of his creation.

What about small children who die without beeing babtized?

Most churches that do not baptize infants believe in an Age of Accountability, before which all who die will be redeemed.

What about those that die without beeing babtized as their parents wont allow them?

The guilt is upon the parents. Also, most evangelicals believe that baptism is an obedience that follows salvation, not one that brings salvation.

[Maya]

That begs the question, "what do they need to be saved from?" Another topic, I suppose.

Actually I asked that too in my OP. We ahve less Katholics than LDs in my country, so I dont tknow that much about catholism today.

To clare something Fatima: So you do not thik deliberate ignorance is ok?

Thanks PC. I almost become a pentacostal when in High school. I had twins in my class that were pentacostals and I even red "Runn baby run" and a few other books by thsi guy and went to see him in Helsinki when he had a huge meeting there. He is a great guy, what a story.

Many here, where I live think that babtizement, Bible or Church are not needed, everyone will be saved by their faith... except ofcourse those that dont believe in trinity, which is over half of worlds inhabitants.

Yes you know the LDS look on the things... What would you say are the differences in what we believe or we - christians? : Apostasy, Trinity, eternal marriage, God and Jesus have a body, that at the reasaurection we get a body, We are literally Gods children and will enherit him and grow to be like him, understanding of the biblical sun, moon, stars as different palces in highest heaven, that we have a profet, that the Church is to be led the same way it was done in Jesus time, we believe everyone needs a babtizement to be saved and that is why we do the Templework...

[Galatians220]

So in many ways we all believe the same about "beeing saved". It beeing a hope for forgiveness and eternal life.

However there is a couple of things I wonder. Please give reasons to your answer.

Who will be saved?

Only those that belong to your church?

Do also those who never hear about Christ have a possibility to be saved?

How about those that have got some parts of the gospel "wrong" like not believing in trinity or islamites what about christians, hindues, buddhists?

What about small children who die without beeing babtized?

What about those that die without beeing babtized as their parents wont allow them?

Q-1 No one is barred from Salvation. People of all color, ethnicity, standing, rank, or caste; slave abd free can have that free gift of Salvation with no strings attached.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Timothy 2:3-4

Q-2 Not my church that people can be saved and not from any church because the Gospel is so simple that even a Child can believe and be saved. Note, the Gospel IS NOT the Bible, nor is it the four accounts because that their account, telling of the smae message. The Gospel is essentially this:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: - 1 Corinthians 15:1-5

The necessary key to salvation is a simple child-like faith, trusting, in the Lord Jesus. The initial Faith is, Saving faith. It is Faith, the one time obedience, that saves:

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:17, 9-10

Q-3 Those who have never heard of the Gospel will have their conscience to judge them. Before Christ, the OT saints haven't heard of the Gospel so they are in their graves, "Asleep" until Christ entered; whoever believes will be following him (John 5:25). It makes sense therefore that even though the Gospel is already introduced 2000 years ago, those who haven't heard will know in death.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) - Romans 2:14-15

Romans 1:18... Evidence around them, even the evidence of the Godhead, they are without excuse

Psalm 19:1-4 -

1 ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

The Stars in which all star are named and have never changed their meaning according to one who wrote the book "The Witness of the Stars"

According to him, the stars were named in order fortelling of the Messiah who was to come. Stars were not meant to be used for indvidual use, thats Astrology; true and original star names talks about Satan symbolized as Scorpius, Jesus as the Lamb, etc. None of the names have been changed.

Q-4 The essential doctrines necessary for salvation does not consist in secondary issues such as whether God Predestines, or whether we ought to keep the Sabbath. These secondary issues have divided the churches in europe than America but everyone who loves the Gospel have recognized that what really mattered are only three things:

I. Who God is

II. Is Jesus God's Son and the Anointed One?

III. the Means of Salvation

I. Who God is, is very important because there have been many gods, godesses, and demi-gods created not by God or an invisible force but by Man:

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

First, God is only One, single supreme Deity (Deuteronomy 6:4). The God of the Bible is Mono-theistic.

That said however, He is a Godhead. While it remains true that God is one, it is clear both in the OT and the NT that not only the Father is God, but the Son also as well as the Holy Spirit. They are all eternal and equal but unique in three distict Persons which is why I believe in the Trinity

Second, God is not just loving and Merciful but Just and Holy so therefore, He has to punish sin for what it is (Exodus 34:6-7). Because of Adam's sin, all men are under wrath and all have died (Romans 5:12-21)

II. Jesus is the Messiah, and the Son of God

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. - 1 John 4:1-3

III. The Means of Salvation

From our prespective, This doctrine separates Biblical Christianity from all religions because most believe that you have to attain, you have to Merit, earn, follow, live, be faithful etc. It is often by following prescribed principles of living or philosophy. Either way, it is up to the believer whether he/she stays in the right path to enter Nirvana, Saved, Paradice etc.

The reason why works should never be added to faith is on my Statement of Faith titled "Salvation." The purpose of the Law is to show man, that he cannot reach heaven because he is

1. Totally depraved, having Adam's Nature, therefore he will always sin (Romans 5:12-18, Ephesians 2:2-4)

2. And to show that He needed a Savior (Romans 3:19-23).

The Bible says that if at all we use the Law, even with Faith, the person is under a Curse, and under a debt. the person unfortunately is also not saved either because they have not accepted the Free Gift, and not accept the Righeousness of God:

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. - Romans 10:2-4

Q-5 Babies who die will not go to hell when they are not baptized. Baptism is only a symbol like circumcision to the Jews, marking them as unique . Circumcison never saved them, and Baptism never washes sins away either. Consider David's son who never have been baptized yet David said:

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. - 2 Samuel 12:21-23

Anyone, trying to enforce Baptism is enforcing the law back on the believer which does not save. Peter, on hearing that some group tried to persuade others to be circumcised said this:

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. - Acts 15:10-11

Q-6 Baptism is important because it is a symbol, partaking in the death, burial and ressurection of Christ. Because it doesn't save, the one who was refused to be baptized is safe.

.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Galatians220

[AnthonyB]

PC,

Thanks for saying "most" Evanglelicals believe that baptism follows salvation

Maya,

1)Who will be saved?

Salvation is only in Jesus Christ and through his atonement; Jesus gets to make the call. However God in his word has attached being saved by grace to faith. Faith in Jesus is designed to be expressed by belief, confession, repentance and being baptised. To those who respond in faith, God has made the promise of salvation. Those who for whatever reason fail to make a faithful response to the gospel have to rely on the mercy of God. God wishes that all be saved and none perish, since that is God's wish, it is also my hope that His mercy abounds to as many as possible. But they don't have the promise of salvation offered in the gospel. Every christian and church has the responsibility to spread the offer to many as possible to give them a chance to respond.

2) Only those that belong to your church?

The promise of salvation is available to all who in faith respond to Jesus. Those who respond in faith to Jesus, are in Christ, they are His body, His church. All those in Christ are part of His Church, the only real church, regardless of what sect, denomination, movement or book club they choose to associate with. There is "One body, one faith, one Lord, one immersion" (into Christ).

Do also those who never hear about Christ have a possibility to be saved?

People will be judged by the light that they have, so yes possible. Yet again it based on a possibility not the assurances made available through faith in Jesus.

How about those that have got some parts of the gospel "wrong" like not believing in trinity or islamites what about christians, hindues, buddhists?

The promises of salvation in the gospel are not based any creed or membership of any particular group but be being immersed in Christ through grace by faith. Peoples of other faiths will be judged by the light they have recieved in the mercy of God.

What about small children who die without beeing babtized?

What about those that die without beeing babtized as their parents wont allow them?

All incapable of responding to receiving the gospel ( infants and those without the mental ability to respond in faith) are not held accoutable for Adam's sin and are incapable of yet committing sin themselves. They are saved by the atonement of Jesus.

Although there is "one baptism" or immersion into Christ as the time to express faith in Jesus in the Christian church (Eph 4:5) there are two aspects to it. The outer aspect of the ordinance and the inner spiritual aspect. God has chosen to place the two immersions together and we should always choose to follow him. However God in his sovereignty is able to supply the inner/spiritual immersion into Chirst in cases were the outer physical baptism was precluded by valid reasons.

Baptism is illustrated by 3 OT events. The Red Sea crossing and Noah's ark are both cases of God saving his people not symbolically but literally. Some Christians hold baptism is compared to circumcission others that it is contrasted. However if circumcission is indeed the OT equivalent to baptism then the Isrealites at the Red Sea were all being rebaptised!

Edited August 4, 2009 by AnthonyB

[thews]

I would like to know how you define the word saved, beeing saved??

What does it mean to you to be saved.. from what and to what and why??

One of my pet peeves. When someone calls themselves "saved," it makes the decision that they are saved by them, when judgement is only for the Lord. We can believe we'll be saved, but stating it as a matter of fact is not a good idea IMO.

[RiversideGuy]

I would like to know how you define the word saved, being saved??

What does it mean to you to be saved.. from what and to what and why??

It means that one has been saved by placing one's faith fully on the Lord Jesus Christ for one's eternal security. That the gift of Christ's full payment for one's sin has been accepted by the sinner who recognizes that only God can save. That individual is saved from an eternal separation from God, which is the wage expected for having sinned. Christ died in my place and rose from the dead. If I accept that payment I receive the gift. When one rejects Christ, one is rejecting God's only remedy and is lost.

Just as Christ walked on this earth, so only in this life may one have an opportunity to accept Christ.