Taking the sacrament

[Wingnut]

AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

:bangcomputer:

(Nothing personal Halfers...)

If you read all my statements in this thread, you'll see that TWICE I have said that I use my right hand. However, my reason for doing so is that I am right-handed and it therefore feels more physically natural and comfortable.

My point is that this conversation is stupid and that there shouldn't be a focus in the first place on which hand is used.

[Misshalfway]

It's all good. I don't however consider the conversation is stupid. Perhaps less important than some other things and perhaps over argued. And I don't think the hand thing is irrelevant. I think to some people it is meaningful.....even if that doesn't apply to you. I think perhaps it isn't as important as other parts to the ordinance.....so perhaps we are on the same page there. It just seems we are interpreting the quote differently.

[Wingnut]

I think to some people it is meaningful.....

I have no problem with people thinking it's meaningful, and it being meaningful to them. My problem is forcing that meaning on a general group and making blanket statements and expecting everyone to agree with them. I have no problem with the significance itself.

[beefche]

I'm curious if discussing our opinions, thoughts, and feelings on a forum is considered expecting everyone to adopt our opinion, thoughts, and feelings.

I've learned from this discussion. MOE's explanation of the historical significance of the right hand was educational. And at no point, did I feel that he was telling me to use my left hand to wipe my tush to not "dirty" my right hand.

[Wingnut]

I'm curious if discussing our opinions, thoughts, and feelings on a forum is considered expecting everyone to adopt our opinion, thoughts, and feelings.

When people say "let's just all use our right hand," I'd say that sounds like trying to get everyone else to adopt their point of view.

[beefche]

I think we should take the bread and water with our right hands and not with our left. If you consider the hand with which we make covenants, this makes sense.

What think ya'll?

Let me be clear. The above was my clumsy way of discussing people's opinions. I clarified my position when Justice posted this and I said that I completely agree with him:

To me, covenants are made symbolically with the right hand because Christ is on the right hand of the Father, and we must go through Christ to get to the Father. So, when I make or renew covenants I use my right hand.

When I see people use their left hand I figure it's their business.

However, when we are discussing what is proper, we are allowed to say what we think without condemning people who disagree, correct?

I believe almost everyone uses "we" and that it doesn't always mean that one expects everyone to conform to one's way of thinking. But just in case my words were unclear (which I concede is probable), then what I think is right and proper doesn't mean that I expect every person to adopt my beliefs.

[Wingnut]

I think we should take the bread and water with our right hands and not with our left.

Why can't we make it a habit to use our right hand?

Why can't we just take the sacrament with the right hand and get focused on what the sacrament is really all about?

Beefche, you say that you clarified the first quote here, but there are two other on this thread (only one from you) that sound like blanket statements.

How can you focus on the symbolism if you have removed the symbol?

I missed this post somehow earlier. You can focus on the symbolism because the symbols are the bread and the water. There is nothing in the Sacrament prayers about hands. The symbol is in no way removed if one takes the Sacrament with one's left hand.

[Carl62]

AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

:bangcomputer:

(Nothing personal Halfers...)

If you read all my statements in this thread, you'll see that TWICE I have said that I use my right hand. However, my reason for doing so is that I am right-handed and it therefore feels more physically natural and comfortable.

My point is that this conversation is stupid and that there shouldn't be a focus in the first place on which hand is used.

Wingnut, if I could give you 100 'thanks' for that post I would. You hit the nail right on the head.

[Misshalfway]

No more blanket statements! It makes Wing uncomfortable.

[beefche]

Beefche, you say that you clarified the first quote here, but there are two other on this thread (only one from you) that sound like blanket statements.

I missed this post somehow earlier. You can focus on the symbolism because the symbols are the bread and the water. There is nothing in the Sacrament prayers about hands. The symbol is in no way removed if one takes the Sacrament with one's left hand.

I just want to make sure I understand, Wing. Since I only clarified one specific statement and stated that I obviously used poor language in that statement and even attempted to clarify my thoughts, that I have contradicted myself because I made other statements to the contrary? Even after my last post in which I thought I was clear that I felt the same way as Justice--that I thought was clearly not judgment on what others choose to do?

And just want to make sure I continue to understand. Since the symbols of the Sacrament are the bread and water, that I don't have the choice (I'm not sure what word to use here--choice? right? presumptuousness?) to see anything deeper into symbols and must be missing the mark when I believe that using my right hand has a symbolism on its own and in connection with the sacrament.

I'm seriously not trying to be snarky (honestly, cause I've had a lot of snarky thoughts that I refuse to put in writing), but I guess I don't see why my choice to use my right hand puts me into a category in which thoughts, intents, and judgments are placed upon me for simply expressing an opinion.

And in case it needs saying and isn't implicit with my posts, I am sorry I was not clear in expressing my thoughts. And I'll bow out of this discussion.

[sixpacktr]

How's this for a blanket statement:

Pride keeps us from accepting counsel because it interferes with 'my will' instead of doing 'thine'.

[Carl62]

This whole debate reminds me of Matthew 23:23-31 where the scribes and the Pharisees were so worried about the outward appearances and ordinances of worshipping God that Jesus ended up slamming them on this way of thinking. Again, is using the right hand vs. the left hand going to make any difference whatsoever in what happens to us in the next life, or is our judgement going to be based on what is in our hearts which Jesus said is the part we should actually be focusing on?

[Guest Alana]

Does my not knowing about this right hand stuff make the sacrament any less valid for me? Not at all. Of course, the more we know, the more is expected of us. If it's so important for us to take it with the right hand, why aren't those who haven't been to the temple told this? Does this mean that my taking the sacrament with my left hand because I'm not in the know (not been through the temple) is any less effective than those who do, or who take it with their right hand because that's just what happened?

[Misshalfway]

Does my not knowing about this right hand stuff make the sacrament any less valid for me? Not at all. Of course, the more we know, the more is expected of us. If it's so important for us to take it with the right hand, why aren't those who haven't been to the temple told this? Does this mean that my taking the sacrament with my left hand because I'm not in the know (not been through the temple) is any less effective than those who do, or who take it with their right hand because that's just what happened?

Nothing is wrong with this. Your worship is no less effective. And NO ONE is saying this.

[lattelady]

Beefche, or anyone else for that matter, if your statement has a firm foundation, you never ever have to bow out of a discussion!! Don't leave on account of any one person's comments!! If you believe firmly in what you're saying, then hold your ground! I have a "Flair Pin" on my Facebook page that says, "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes." I love it because I want to learn to speak truth, even when it's scary. But truth has to have a firm foundation. If you can stand firm on your foundation, then STAND!

[Misshalfway]

We love you Beefche. Don't leave.

Guys....this is just a discussion. There are lots of "shoulds" coming from both sides of it -- and that is ok. I highly doubt that anyone believes that Beefche or I am going around the chapel looking over our horned rims marking down all lefties and including them in a report to the bishop!

I think at the end of the day we all agree that the sacrament has meaning for us. If the RT hand thing adds meaning to it, I think such should be supported considering many of us have been taught the significant of it all our lives. If someone doesn't find meaning, I think that this is ok as well. Sometimes arguing threads can be fun. And frankly wing, I was funning with you a bit. I am sorry. Clearly it did get too serious. I don't think anyone intended that.

So...so can we just hug and have cake?

[Vort]

No more blanket statements! It makes Wing uncomfortable.

Blanket statements are always false.

[Misshalfway]

It was a joke, Vort.

[john doe]

I don't know why everyone here gets so bent out of shape about which hand to take the sacrament with. Just take it with the right hand, unless the situation makes it easier to take it with the left. The right is preferred, but not required. There. Problem solved.

Now quit bickering or I'll closed this thread. Why do we have people fighting so hard about the silliest of things?

[john doe]

It was a joke, Vort.

So was his.

[Vort]

It was a joke, Vort.

Unfortunately, those of us who eschew smileys and "LOL"s run the risk of having our jokes fly over the heads of our readers...

[Misshalfway]

Unfortunately, those of us who eschew smileys and "LOL"s run the risk of having our jokes fly over the heads of our readers...

Duly noted.

[Vort]

Duly noted.

No, please! That was in no way a request for more smiley usage!

(As JD said, my response was a joke to your joke, so I was commenting on my own joke going over your head...aw, heck, it's no fun when you have to explain it.)

[Misshalfway]

LOL!

OH dear. I DID miss your joke and now I feel like dork because good humor should never be overlooked! It's against my personal policy!

I am sorry this conversation got frustrating. It was fun a few pages ago.

[sixpacktr]

I don't know why everyone here gets so bent out of shape about which hand to take the sacrament with. Just take it with the right hand, unless the situation makes it easier to take it with the left. The right is preferred, but not required. There. Problem solved.

Now quit bickering or I'll closed this thread. Why do we have people fighting so hard about the silliest of things?

Because we're so bored at work?

Gnats taste good, even if they do go down hard?