a few ?s before my baptizm

[maybeinNH]

Hi all

Ok I have a few questions that are not all that related to eachother. SO if you have an answer or can point me to scripture or talks that could I would appreciate it.

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foregien and well blasphamous...

2. What is meant by the first resurestion?

3. When people pass away do they go right to one of the kingdoms of heaven or do they lay in some kind of waiting for reserection?

I am not saying that I do not believe in eternal progression It is just a very foreign concept. What I do know is that this seems to be like dominos for me. I prayed if the BOM was true and was assured that it most certainly is. So if I know that then clearly Joseph SMith was a prophet of G-d which menas this is truely Christs church and that means that President Monson is surely G-ds prophet today. So thankfully beacuase I know these things I feel like I can believe any answer found in scripture or talks and know that it is true even if I cannot wrap my mind around it. SO please help!

[pam]

2. What is meant by the first resurestion?

When Christ comes again, all but the wicked will rise from their graves to meet him. This is known as the first resurrection.

3. When people pass away do they go right to one of the kingdoms of heaven or do they lay in some kind of waiting for reserection?

Taken from lds.org:

Death is an essential part of Heavenly Father's plan of salvation (see 2 Nephi 9:6). In order to become like our Eternal Father, we must experience death and later receive perfect, resurrected bodies.

When the physical body dies, the spirit continues to live. In the spirit world, the spirits of the righteous "are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow" (Alma 40:12). A place called spirit prison is reserved for "those who [have] died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets" (D&C 138:32). The spirits in prison are "taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and all other principles of the gospel that [are] necessary for them to know" (D&C 138:33–34). If they accept the principles of the gospel, repent of their sins, and accept ordinances performed in their behalf in temples, they will be welcomed into paradise.

Because of the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, physical death is only temporary: "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22). Everyone will be resurrected, meaning that every person's spirit will be reunited with his or her body—"restored to their proper and perfect frame" and no longer subject to death (Alma 40:23; see also Alma 11:44–45).

[pam]

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foregien and well blasphamous...

Also taken from lds.org:

Blessings of Exaltation

Our Heavenly Father is perfect. However, he is not jealous of his wisdom and perfection. He glories in the fact that it is possible for his children to become like him. He has said, “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

• 1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
• 2. They will become gods.
• 3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
• 4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
• 5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

Notice I bolded the little "g". We will not become God the Father but can become gods in our own right in the celestial kingdom.

[maybeinNH]

pam you are da bomb!!! exactly what I was looking for I knew I could come here!

[pam]

Glad I could help.

[BenRaines]

Pam is a bomb? Watch out.

Ben Raines

[Mason]

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foregien and well blasphamous...

I am not saying that I do not believe in eternal progression It is just a very foreign concept. What I do know is that this seems to be like dominos for me.

Seems like you missed out on some important Catholic doctrine. Lamentably, this seems to be a growing trend in Catholic churches.

While not exactly the same thing, Catholic doctrine does teach THEOSIS.

St. Athanasius of Alexandria wrote, "God became man so that man might become God." (On the Incarnation 54:3, PG 25:192)

[pam]

I do believe she was asking what LDS teachings are though.

[Mason]

I do believe she was asking what LDS teachings are though.

My point wasn't to dissuade the OP from Mormonism, but to point out that the question shouldn't have been that far of a stretch had she received a proper catechism as a Catholic.

[Guest]

Seems like you missed out on some important Catholic doctrine. Lamentably, this seems to be a growing trend in Catholic churches.

While not exactly the same thing, Catholic doctrine does teach THEOSIS.

St. Athanasius of Alexandria wrote, "God became man so that man might become God." (On the Incarnation 54:3, PG 25:192)

Usually, when people don't say what kind of Catholic they are, they mean Roman Catholic. But then, I was Roman Catholic, so I have a certain bias. Theosis has a different viewpoint in Roman Catholicism than St. Athanasius' viewpoint as adopted by other catholic denominations or orthodox christians and are different from the LDS viewpoint.

Edited August 31, 2009 by anatess

[pam]

And this is going off topic from the OP.

[maybeinNH]

if you go to the wikipedia link Mason provided you can see how vastly diffrent the ideas are under the LDS section and under the Latin Church section since I am ROMAN Catholic. As for your rude comments on what I may have missed out on as a Catholic mind your business. The question was answered why do you have to chime in with negative garbage and to top it off you were wrong. so have a nice day!

[Islander]

My point wasn't to dissuade the OP from Mormonism, but to point out that the question shouldn't have been that far of a stretch had she received a proper catechism as a Catholic.

Just for clarification purposes; The Roman Catholic church did not exist at the time of Athanasius. He is known as a Christian theologian. Appropriating his views as "Catholic" is anachronistic and inaccurate.

[Guest]

But, St. Athanasius was a member of the religion that later on became ROMAN Catholic. But, he was exiled, brought back, exiled again, brought back again... I really don't know if he remained under any religious group at his demise.

In any case, even if the OP was an orthodox or eastern catholic, etc., still - his statement about man becoming gods as feeling like blasphemy still stands. Because, none of the Catholics believe in theosis the way LDS believe it as stated by Pam.

[Islander]

But, St. Athanasius was a member of the religion that later on became ROMAN Catholic. But, he was exiled, brought back, exiled again, brought back again... I really don't know if he remained under any religious group at his demise.

In any case, even if the OP was an orthodox or eastern catholic, etc., still - his statement about man becoming gods as feeling like blasphemy still stands. Because, none of the Catholics believe in theosis the way LDS believe it as stated by Pam.

I guess that is because by the 4th century AD the theology of the original church had been corrupted and clear and pristine doctrines had been discarded in favor of other interpretations.

The doctrine is quite simple, we have traits and potential to be like our Father in Heaven as we are indeed His offprings:

Psalm 82

Acts 17:29

Rom 8:17

1 John 3:2

Rev 3:21

[Guest]

In any case, I don't think it is necessary to be able to wrap your mind around eternal progression before baptism. I do believe completely in "line upon line, precept upon precept" and with the OPs testimony of the BofM and Joseph Smith in addition to his testimony of Jesus Christ and his desire to follow His commandments, it is enough to start you off on the right path by baptism and confirmation.

When my son got baptized (8 years old) 2 weekend ago, he had a baptismal interview. I don't remember getting a baptismal interview 9 years ago when I myself got baptized. (Of course, I'm an old woman close to senile, so I might have just forgotten). But, if Temple Recommend interviews are the same as baptismal interviews - you basically just need to have a testimony of Jesus, Joseph Smith, and BofM and that's it.

[Mason]

if you go to the wikipedia link Mason provided you can see how vastly diffrent the ideas are under the LDS section and under the Latin Church section since I am ROMAN Catholic. As for your rude comments on what I may have missed out on as a Catholic mind your business. The question was answered why do you have to chime in with negative garbage and to top it off you were wrong. so have a nice day!

What you call "vastly different" I call similar. Just as I consider Mormons Christian, while others consider them a cult. I see more similarities than I do differences.

May I also take the time to point out at no time in this thread did you identify yourself as a ROMAN Catholic. Nor did I suggest you were a ROMAN Catholic. As you and others here may know, there are 400 Million Catholics in the world who are NOT Roman Catholic (EO's, OO's, Anglicans, and Old Catholics). It is my observation that few Catholics know about Theosis, and I was suggesting that had you studied it previously, the Mormon theory in question might not have appeared that new or as you put it, blasphemous.

While I mean no malice in this thread, I fear you have taken my comments incorrectly. Might I suggest if you don't want people to know about your "business" you refrain from posting said business on the internet?

[Mason]

Just for clarification purposes; The Roman Catholic church did not exist at the time of Athanasius. He is known as a Christian theologian. Appropriating his views as "Catholic" is anachronistic and inaccurate.

Would you mind providing credible sources which refer to St Athanasius as anything but a Catholic theologian?

While you are correct that the ROMAN Catholic church did not exist at the time, the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH most certainly did exist, and he was a Bishop of said church.

[pam]

If you all would like to discuss this please start another thread. This was not the intent of the OP.

[pam]

What you call "vastly different" I call similar. Just as I consider Mormons Christian, while others consider them a cult. I see more similarities than I do differences.

May I also take the time to point out at no time in this thread did you identify yourself as a ROMAN Catholic. Nor did I suggest you were a ROMAN Catholic. As you and others here may know, there are 400 Million Catholics in the world who are NOT Roman Catholic (EO's, OO's, Anglicans, and Old Catholics). It is my observation that few Catholics know about Theosis, and I was suggesting that had you studied it previously, the Mormon theory in question might not have appeared that new or as you put it, blasphemous.

While I mean no malice in this thread, I fear you have taken my comments incorrectly. Might I suggest if you don't want people to know about your "business" you refrain from posting said business on the internet?

The point is..she was not asking about anything Catholic. She asked some simple questions about LDS beliefs. You chose to take it beyond her intent.

[Mason]

The point is..she was not asking about anything Catholic. She asked some simple questions about LDS beliefs. You chose to take it beyond her intent.

In her OP, she referenced the fact that due to her Catholic upbringing, Eternal Progression was foreign to her. Had she not mentioned her Catholicism, I would have never posted in this thread to begin with. Since she chose to make that a starting point I interjected the fact that for a properly catechised Catholic, of whatever flavor, Eternal Progression isn't totally dissimilar from the orthodox theory of Theosis.

I was then attacked and belittled by the OP and not a single moderator chose to stop her.

If I was an investigator of the church, could I attack and belittle non-Mormons here without fear of censure?

[Hemidakota]

Hi all

Ok I have a few questions that are not all that related to eachother. SO if you have an answer or can point me to scripture or talks that could I would appreciate it.

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foregien and well blasphamous...

2. What is meant by the first resurestion?

3. When people pass away do they go right to one of the kingdoms of heaven or do they lay in some kind of waiting for reserection?

4] I am not saying that I do not believe in eternal progression It is just a very foreign concept. What I do know is that this seems to be like dominos for me. I prayed if the BOM was true and was assured that it most certainly is. So if I know that then clearly Joseph SMith was a prophet of G-d which menas this is truely Christs church and that means that President Monson is surely G-ds prophet today. So thankfully beacuase I know these things I feel like I can believe any answer found in scripture or talks and know that it is true even if I cannot wrap my mind around it. SO please help!

1] Being ignorant is not bliss. Why? This is a stalemate for the soul who need to be taught this principle in spirit world vice moving forward in this life.

2] Not all un-endowed and endowed members will obtain the highest order without the Godhead consent. This is not given lightly even if this person did what was required. The only way to know for sure is following what Peter [2 Peter] stated and Joseph Smith confirmed how to reached this state.

3] There are two resurrections on the first day. First one is the morning of the first Resurrection, and second, the Afternoon of the First Resurrection. Those who obtained the morning will inherit the Celestial Kingdom, but it does not indicate these will inherit the highest order in that state, just the Celestial Kingdom. This kingdom has three divisions only the highest level is shared with our Creator and His beloved Son, everything they have obtained and will have a endless eternal journey.

Regarding the Afternoon of the First Resurrection, "And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh." (D. & C. 88:99.) This is the afternoon of the first resurrection; it takes place after our Lord has ushered in the millennium. Those coming forth at that time do so with terrestrial bodies and are thus destined to inherit a terrestrial glory in eternity. (D. & C. 76:71-80.)

4] The answer to this is your spiritual maturity level in being recipient to those truths and the desire to know.

[Hemidakota]

Hi all

Ok I have a few questions that are not all that related to each other. SO if you have an answer or can point me to scripture or talks that could I would appreciate it.

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foreign and well blasphemous...

2. What is meant by the first resurrection?

3. When people pass away do they go right to one of the kingdoms of heaven or do they lay in some kind of waiting for resurrection?

4] I am not saying that I do not believe in eternal progression It is just a very foreign concept. What I do know is that this seems to be like dominos for me. I prayed if the BOM was true and was assured that it most certainly is. So if I know that then clearly Joseph Smith was a prophet of G-d which meant this is truly Christs church and that means that President Monson is surely G-ds prophet today. So thankfully because I know these things I feel like I can believe any answer found in scripture or talks and know that it is true even if I cannot wrap my mind around it. SO please help!

1] Being ignorant is not bliss. Why? This is a stalemate for the soul who needs to be taught this principle in spirit world/paradise vice moving forward in this life. I rather follow the same path as those who preceded me in receiving it in this life and move forward in not waiting for the Judgment day.

2] There are two resurrections on the first day. First one is the morning of the first Resurrection, and second, the Afternoon of the First Resurrection. Those who obtained the morning will inherit the Celestial Kingdom, but it does not indicate these will inherit the highest order in that state, just the Celestial Kingdom. This kingdom has three divisions only the highest level is shared with our Creator and His beloved Son, everything they have obtained and will have a endless eternal journey.

Not all un-endowed and endowed members will obtain the highest order without the Godhead consent. This is not given lightly even if this person did what was required. The only way to know for sure is following what Peter [2 Peter] stated and Joseph Smith confirmed how to reached this state.

Regarding the Afternoon of the First Resurrection, "And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh." (D. & C. 88:99.) This is the afternoon of the first resurrection; it takes place after our Lord has ushered in the millennium. Those coming forth at that time do so with terrestrial bodies and are thus destined to inherit a terrestrial glory in eternity. (D. & C. 76:71-80.)

3] See statement 1 for the very few who will not have to wait for judgment in receiving there reward of eternal life. The rest who do repent in this life will receive Paradise as the temporal state. All others who do not repent will receive the Spirit Prison. Location of such for both is here on this earth.

It was in accordance with this principle that the Prophet wrote by way of revelation: "Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." (D. & C. 130:18-19.)

4] The answer to this is your spiritual maturity level in being recipient to those truths and the desire to know.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Snow]

Hi all

Ok I have a few questions that are not all that related to eachother. SO if you have an answer or can point me to scripture or talks that could I would appreciate it.

1. Eternal Progression...I understand the concept up to the point where I here people say that we will BECOME gods....As a lifelong Catholic till this point this concept seems very foregien and well blasphamous...

Did you know that it was a core belief of the catholic church for the first couple hundred years of ancient christianity?

[Lilac]

Maybe the thread got off topic but I learned something new.