Olive press

[beefche]

I attended a fireside last night with Andrew Skinner (rameumpton, were you there? there were 700 in attendance, so no way could I try to find you). He served as director of the BYU Jerusalem Center for a few years. He told the story of how an olive press was built on the BYU property. One year, he had 170 students who gathered olives during the season and then took the olives to the olive press. He described what a press looks like (with 2 stones to press the olives) and stated that when olives are first pressed and the pure oil first begins to descend into the container outside the press, the oil turns red for a few moments. The oil then turns to it's normal golden color.

What I was trying to figure out was the physics of the red color. Why would the olives turn red initially, then turn the golden color? Can someone explain that to a non-scientific person?

[pam]

Just because. Does that answer your question?

[beefche]

Nope. Too scientific.

[Hemidakota]

Just because it is...

Here is link on facts about Olive Oil - Olive Facts - The Olive Oil Source

[ryanh]

My only guess would be that the cartenoids are the first to escape the olives under a light press (or escape in greater quantities early in the pressing process) whereas the chlorophyll and other elements that would balance out the final color are a little slower to extract or run. The cartenoids in olives are a yellow-red. Chlorophyll obviously, is green.

Or, they were simply pressing olives that were overripe! Hence greater yellow-red pigments and lesser chlorphyll.

[pam]

Yeh what he said.

[rameumptom]

Beefche,

Yes, I was there. Sat in the breezeway on the right side.

I'm thinking it has to do with an un-oiled press. The dirt and film on the stones would first be washed through in the initial pressing.

I was one of the last to talk to Dr Skinner afterwards. had a few questions that most would not have understood regarding the cave in which the main oil press resided in jesus' day. It would not have been used in spring for oil pressing, but was used as a place for travelers to rest (I do have some sources), and to stay during Passover.

I asked if perhaps Gethsemane actually happened in the cave, rather than the forest. While he wasn't certain, he thought it was possible, that the cave was used as sacred space. He mentioned that on the other side of the Mt of Olives is a cave that traditionally is where the resurrected Jesus taught the disciples for 40 days the secrets. So, he thought that it was possible that Gethsemane could have occurred in a cave, as well.

We talked on a few other things I won't mention here, but they were very interesting.

[Just_A_Guy]

Aww, c'mon, Rameumptom--you can't leave us hanging like that!

[beefche]

I was almost in the padding seating...if I hadn't missed the exit and had to turn around to get the right exit, my tush would have had more comfortable seating. One of my mission comps reminded me that Bro. Skinner was in my MTC branch presidency...I don't remember him there as I try to block out that painful 2 months (I am not one who enjoyed my time in the MTC).

That is interesting, ram, about the cave. What other things can you share as you waited to speak with him (I'm assuming you eavesdropped while waiting, cause I sure would have)? He's one of my favorite BYU religion professors. Never had him, but he does a lot of those "discussions.." on byutv.

[sixpacktr]

I have gotten hooked on the scripture series for the OT, NT, BoM, etc., on BYUTV, and saw the episode with Bro Skinner and Bro Brown and two other brethren where he related that experience, and the hushed (yet audible) gasp as the students first saw that phenomenon.

When I heard that, I turned to my wife and said that for many, many years I had misunderstood the ordinance of blessing the sick. I had thought the anointing of oil as simply preparatory, etc., and that the actual blessing was the 'main' part (I know, they are both important, but I think you understand what I mean). After hearing that, I suddenly understood why we use olive oil in anointing the sick: we anoint the sick with the blood of Christ which took away our guilt and makes us whole before him. I had heard some other explanations of the use of oil prior to that, but now I understand that EVERYTHING points back to Christ, and having faith in him and in the atonement. So the anointing is what really matters, and it can be sealed w/o a blessing and all would be in proper order (like when conferring the PH on someone, the blessing is optional).

When I was at BYU in August, I asked if the bookstore had these series on DVD. Sadly, they don't. I would love to have them to watch. These men have such an insight, both spiritual and historical, which helps me better understand the writings.

[beefche]

sixpactr, you can get them on MP3--I like to listen to them on the way/back from the temple. I, too, love those series. Brings deeper insight to many things.

I thought more closely about the sacred oil used for anointing when Bro. Skinner said that. Made me realize, too, that it is more important than I gave credit for previously.

[rameumptom]

It also makes sense in that the name "Christ" or "Messiah" means "Anointed." When a king was anointed, he was being set apart as legal heir of the Divine King. A literal adoption into the household of God, so that the mortal king was in many ways considered divine, as well.

When we are anointing for the sick, we are first placing Christ's atoning power on the person. But we are also anointing the person with Christ's atoning blood. D&C 42:44 gets a new meaning for us when we consider it in this light.

[Hemidakota]

Beefche,

I asked if perhaps Gethsemane actually happened in the cave, rather than the forest. While he wasn't certain, he thought it was possible, that the cave was used as sacred space. He mentioned that on the other side of the Mt of Olives is a cave that traditionally is where the resurrected Jesus taught the disciples for 40 days the secrets. So, he thought that it was possible that Gethsemane could have occurred in a cave, as well.

I highly doubt it since both Lee and Kimball when visiting the area declared one of those hand crafted caves, was the location where Christ's body was laid, they even went on talked about the location where Christ suffered for the sins of the world as He laid prostrated on the earth in the garden above Jerusalem. Though, not being in that location, I would take both words as revelatory for me as truths. Even when I visited Adam-ondi-Ahman and stood [spot] on what I term a resemblance of Adams’s first built alter in offering sacrifices to GOD and felt the Spirit of confirmation. This same pattern must have been the same as both men felt of the promptings of the amiable whisperings of the Spirit when both visited the area during their tenure as brethren in the church.

As I don't believe ever that the Savior would go to a cave and offer up a solemn prayer to His FATHER over precious matters or applying the atonement for us all. Seeing John was awake during this precious moment, I believe it was quite the opposite. If I was in His shoes, I would opt for the highest point - openly – to make this moment happen as described in the scriptures.

Now, when it comes to a cave, I am reminded of both Mohammad and Lucifer. Mohammad in receiving instruction from the Angel Gabriel and Lucifer headed for after being commanded to leave by Peter. James, and John.

:

Edited September 30, 2009 by Hemidakota

[sixpacktr]

sixpactr, you can get them on MP3--I like to listen to them on the way/back from the temple. I, too, love those series. Brings deeper insight to many things.

How? I went to BYUTV, and see that they now have a tab that is strictly for all of these series (D&C, NT, OT, BoM, Isaiah) so that you can watch whichever one you want whenever you want.

Thanks for the tip...

[beefche]

I'm trying to remember, but I think I went to Itunes store and downloaded them from there (they are free). I'll try to see if I can find it when I get home from work.

I just did a google search for "byutv discussions" and it brought up the website, but my work firewall blocked it.

[sixpacktr]

Yup, Itunes has it. I just have to subscribe to the podcast, which MIGHT be a video...not sure, but we'll see as they come thru...

thanks for the help...

[beefche]

When I subscribed, it was to the MP3, not a video.

[sixpacktr]

got em all. PLUS, the BoM, the NT, the PoGP scriptures. And it is MP3.

Thanks again for the tip...

[Hemidakota]

How? I went to BYUTV, and see that they now have a tab that is strictly for all of these series (D&C, NT, OT, BoM, Isaiah) so that you can watch whichever one you want whenever you want.

Thanks for the tip...

I do saved them on the DVR when played..interesting tidbits with the Discussion panel for the Book of Mormon.

[Hemidakota]

I'm trying to remember, but I think I went to Itunes store and downloaded them from there (they are free). I'll try to see if I can find it when I get home from work.

I just did a google search for "byutv discussions" and it brought up the website, but my work firewall blocked it.

I can't even access the YOUTUBE site when someone list them here.

[rameumptom]

I highly doubt it since both Lee and Kimball when visiting the area declared one of those hand crafted caves, was the location where Christ's body was laid, they even went on talked about the location where Christ suffered for the sins of the world as He laid prostrated on the earth in the garden above Jerusalem. Though, not being in that location, I would take both words as revelatory for me as truths. Even when I visited Adam-ondi-Ahman and stood [spot] on what I term a resemblance of Adams’s first built alter in offering sacrifices to GOD and felt the Spirit of confirmation. This same pattern must have been the same as both men felt of the promptings of the amiable whisperings of the Spirit when both visited the area during their tenure as brethren in the church.

As I don't believe ever that the Savior would go to a cave and offer up a solemn prayer to His FATHER over precious matters or applying the atonement for us all. Seeing John was awake during this precious moment, I believe it was quite the opposite. If I was in His shoes, I would opt for the highest point - openly – to make this moment happen as described in the scriptures.

:

In ancient writings, Adam and Eve dwelled in the Cave of Treasures after being cast out of the Garden. The cave is considered a sacred place, as in the stories of Adam and Eve, they were enclosed within a cave for 3 days, representing the days the Lord's body would be in the tomb.

A cave, especially one that is an oil/wine press, would definitely be representative of Jesus Christ. It would tie Gethsemane in with his death and resurrection. Caves, as I just mentioned, were used as sacred space. Remember, Jesus' birth in the manger, probably was a cave. So, he begins his work in a sacred cave and ends it in a sacred cave.

Just as the resurrected Christ would rise up out of the tomb/cave to resurrect us all, so in his atonement, he would rise up out of spiritual death/Gethsemane's cave to atone for us all.

Presidents Kimball and Lee were giving their opinions on where the tomb for Jesus' body was. That has nothing to do with where Gethsemane or the teachings during the 40 days occurred.

Edited October 1, 2009 by rameumptom