Help me explain 1 Cor 15:29, about baptism for dead

[yenni]

I am Mormon have been for a long time. But I will be the first to admit, though I read my scriptures I rarely get super in depth about what they really mean or whatever, I tend to take them as they are because that's good enough for me. Perhaps I need to change that because whenever someone else has a scripture related question, I'm not always so good at answering. Anywho, my sub-par scripture studying habits aside, I have a question I need help answering.

A friend of mine from school is getting baptized, can't say her mother is enthusiastic with the idea. Anyway so her mother insists on being facebook friends with all of her daughter's friends and this morning on FB she posts this:

Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?(1 Cor 15:29) Could someone please explain this scripture to me and why are the mormons using this as a part of their doctrines for being baptized on behave of dead people who they believe died without faith in jesus and been baptized?

Basically she wants to know why we baptize the dead though they have already been baptized (though not in the church) in relation to this scripture.

Okay, I know perfectly well why we do baptisms for the dead and have no problem explaining it. What I'm wondering is how can I help her understand it through this scripture? I'd really like to answer her question, but I'd like to know what I'm talking about scripturally Any help on this subject would be great and much appreciated, thanks!

[Palerider]

This link might help....check it out and I hope it helps.

FAQ: Baptism for the Dead

[pam]

We know that no one can enter the celestial kingdom without being baptized. We also know that no one can qualify for that kingdom without a resurrected body.

Therefore the question is rather simple. If there were no resurrection (if the dead rise not at all) then there is no reason for baptism.

Do we believe baptism important and that it also goes hand in hand with the resurrection?

Howard W. Hunter noted, “There would be no sense in such ordinances except there be a resurrection. Nothing matters if there is not a resurrection; everything would end in the darkness of death.” (Conference Report, April 1969, Afternoon Session 137.)

In that scripture he was talking about baptisms for the dead. Again baptism being an essential ingredient in entering the celestial kingdom. Those that have never had the chance to learn of Christ and his teachings or to accept them, have that opportunity for baptism.

I guess the big question is: Does your friend's mom believe that baptism is essential? Or is just accepting Christ all that it takes?

[tubaloth]

The problem with that scripture is Paul wasn't trying to teach anything about Baptism for the dead, he was trying to teach about Resurrection and life after death (this is also the same chapter that Paul teaches about the three kingdoms of Heaven).

To teach about Baptism for the head you first have to start at the Atonement. People have to understand that the Atonement covers both the Living and the dead. Or more the easier point is that the Atonement covers all time. The reason this is important is because I know I wasn't around when the Atonement happen. So that means even I have access to this Atoning power some 2 thousand years later.

Most people think of this, but don't understand it. The same holds true for Spirits. They also can have access to the Atonement.

But Baptism is something that is performed physically on the earth.

Now if we stand in behalf of them, just as Christ did the Atonement on our behalf. This is a hard idea to fully understand.

So Paul is teaching there is no use for us to do Baptisms for the dead if there is no life after death. So you have to kind of take the reverse logic on it and say what Paul is teaching is, because there resurrection and life after death, then Baptism for the dead has a purpose.

Thats about as far as you can really get with that scripture.

The other scriptures that Missionaries use to teach this idea is more found in 1 Peter Chapter 3

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Chapter 4

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

This is teaching how Christ set it up for those that died to be preached the Gospel. Why? Christ already atoned for both the Just and the Unjust (The live and the dead). Christ did this so that all man can be judged the same way.

Try to teach that principle first, then baptism for the dead second.

[yenni]

I guess the big question is: Does your friend's mom believe that baptism is essential? Or is just accepting Christ all that it takes?

She believes in baptism but she only believes in getting baptized once. Where she had the problem is why the need to be baptized for the dead who were baptized once and accepted Christ already.

[pam]

It is hard for people who are not LDS to understand the differences in baptism. We believe we need to be baptized by one who holds the authority to do so.

[beefche]

She believes in baptism but she only believes in getting baptized once. Where she had the problem is why the need to be baptized for the dead who were baptized once and accepted Christ already.

This is sometimes a difficult concept for people.

When I was on my mission, I explained it this way. Suppose you wanted to get a driver's license. Your neighbor says that he will help you get that. So, he teaches you to drive, then tests you, then takes your picture and makes a piece of paper that says you know how to drive and have the right to do so. Does this mean you have a license to drive? No. Even though he has the best intentions, your neighbor is not recognized by the state to issue licenses.

The same with baptism. There are many, many good people who have a strong desire to do good. They preach and baptize in Christ's name. But who gave them the authority to do it? This is one interpretation of Matthew 7:21-23

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Doing the will of the Father includes having His authority. So, although the baptisms of other religions do show faith and goodness, they are not done by God's authority. God's authority can only come from God--having a strong desire to do good, or a call of the Spirit is not sufficient. Afterall, the scriptures above show us that many good things can be done without authority (prophesy, cast out devils, many wonderful works). But why does Jesus say He never knew them? Because he did not give them that authority.

[beefche]

Ok, now that I think about this a little more, I think you should keep it simple.

Just say that we believe that God has given His authority to man again and that we believe that the one doing the baptism must have God's priesthood (or authority) in order to baptize. Since we believe that God's priesthood is in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, we believe that all must be baptized by one having authority. Therefore, we do baptism for the dead to make sure they have been baptized by one having God's priesthood.

Also, just a FYI (I'm sure you know this, but it helps to be reminded), don't argue. Just state your beliefs in simple terms.

[Just_A_Guy]

There's an entire (short) section of the D&C that I think addresses this:

D&C 22: Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Manchester, New York, April 1830. HC 1: 79–80. This revelation was given to the Church in consequence of some who had previously been baptized desiring to unite with the Church without rebaptism.

1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting ccovenant, even that which was from the beginning.

2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.

3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old.

4 Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.