I'd like some clarification on Smith and Masons

[Lilac]

I have read that Smith joined the Masons and shortly after that, he began building temples and introduced temple rituals.

Is this historically accurate?

Can you point me to an accurate source.

I don't believe everything I read about Mormons or any religion unless I ask the people directly.

I don't want to debate Masons vs. Mormons. I'd just like accurate information that I can read myself.

PS Just to clarify, I'm a serious investigator and not trolling.

[jadams_4040]

I have read that Smith joined the Masons and shortly after that, he began building temples and introduced temple rituals.

Is this historically accurate?

Can you point me to an accurate source.

I don't believe everything I read about Mormons or any religion unless I ask the people directly.

I don't want to debate Masons vs. Mormons. I'd just like accurate information that I can read myself.

PS Just to clarify, I'm a serious investigator and not trolling.

Dont have refferance sources for you, but it surely does look as if yer at least partly correct; And the way i see it; after doing masonry research, they go back a very very long time; {b.c} or shorty into {a,d} but anyway can we say for sure this would make temple ordinances untrue?

how do we know the masons were not fullfilling prophecy and went courupt; started changing the ordinances ,breaking the covenants e;t;c as prophecied? Do we know for sure they did not origanaly hold truths?:)

[Lilac]

I don't know what to think.

This is what is going on in my head:

I thought that Joseph Smith had a direct revelation from God about temple and their need. I thought he got divine revelations about temple ordinances.

Then I read that he joined the Masons, obvioulsy must've seen their rituals and now he talks about temples, ordinances etc.

This bothers me.

Anyone?

[NeuroTypical]

Joseph Smith did not become a Mason until 1842. By then, the Books of Abraham and Moses had been translated, the Kirtland temple had been dedicated in 1836, and D&C 124 was written in January 1841.

Furthermore, the existing records about Joseph Smith's involvement with Masons relate that he only went to about six meetings total. Hardly enough time to learn anything about the secret practices and elaborate ritual of the Masons.

And still further, there were a few LDS masons of the time that later quit the church and became critical of it, yet none of them claimed Joseph Smith plagarized any temple ceremonies. Not even John C. Bennett, who was one of the more viscious enemies of the church at the time.

All that said, yes, there are a couple very clear and striking similarities between Masonic and temple symbolism.

LM

[MaMeeshkaMow]

My belief is that God inspired Joseph to go visit them because they had some elements of true symbolic practices (they go all the way back to the temple of Solomon I believe) and then God taught Joseph what was right, what to use and what he should teach. Thus, some elements are similar.

[WmLee]

LoudMouth is correct. However, Joseph Smith was a Master Mason and had petitioned to open and hold a lodge in Nauvoo. That was one of his problems on the political side. Nauvoo was growing and the number of Saints became a threat to political leaders and an easy way to cut out the competition was to slander and eliminate Joseph Smith.

[bytebear]

I tend to agree with MaMeeshkaMow. I also think that God wanted to teach his "mysteries" through symbolism and was not necessarily bent on a specific order of symbolism. The temple ceremony has changed over the years, but the ordinance and the covenant has not changed. So, did Smith find inspiration through Masonic symbolism. Yes, but did it define the ordinance? no. Also, keep in mind that much of American symbolism comes from masonic sources (look at your one dollar bill, or read Dan Brown's latest novel).

[BenRaines]

Lilac, what is your reference to the facts that you have come across regarding Joseph Smith? If we have that as a reference then it would be easier to address them.

Ben Raines

[Celica]

There's nothing wrong with being a Mason.

[cookslc]

Joseph Smith did not become a Mason until 1842. By then, the Books of Abraham and Moses had been translated, the Kirtland temple had been dedicated in 1836, and D&C 124 was written in January 1841.

Furthermore, the existing records about Joseph Smith's involvement with Masons relate that he only went to about six meetings total. Hardly enough time to learn anything about the secret practices and elaborate ritual of the Masons.

And still further, there were a few LDS masons of the time that later quit the church and became critical of it, yet none of them claimed Joseph Smith plagarized any temple ceremonies. Not even John C. Bennett, who was one of the more viscious enemies of the church at the time.

All that said, yes, there are a couple very clear and striking similarities between Masonic and temple symbolism.

LM

This is correct. See History of the Church, I think V. 4 and the new book by Mathew Brown on Mormons and Masons. While his timeline is good, he is not so good on Masonic ritual.

As a matter of clarification, Joseph Smith was not a Mason at the time of the request to form a Lodge. No doubt he was aware of the request.

There were LDS Masons prior to the settlement of Nauvoo, many of them prominent and close to Joseph Smith: Hyrum Smith (Joseph Smith's brother), Newel K. Whitney, Heber C. Kimball, John C. Bennett, George Miller, Lucius N. Scovil, Elijah Fordham, John Smith, Austin Cowles, Noah Rogers, and James Adams. Adams had been Deputy Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Illinois since 1840.

On June 28, 1841, one of the Mormon Masons, Lucius Scovil, and others petitioned Bodley Lodge No. 1, Quincy, Illinois, to ask the Grand Lodge of Illinois to establish a lodge in Nauvoo. This request was denied, as the writers were unknown to the Bodley Lodge. However, on October 15, 1841, Grand Master Abraham Jonas granted a special dispensation to form a lodge, without waiting for the recommendation of a recognized lodge. During the next two years dispensations were also granted for four other lodges which contained a largely LDS membership.

Joseph Smith and his counselor, Sidney Rigdon, were initiated on March 15, 1842. The next day, he "was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree."

Masonic ceremonies do not originate in King Solomon's Temple. The backdrop for the Masonic drama of the Third Degree takes place there, and the tools and implements of the stone mason are used to teach moral lessons.

[Palerider]

check this link out......

The Mormon Temple Ceremony and Mormon Temples: Temples, Mormons and Masons - The Authentic Ancient Nature of the LDS Temple

[Lilac]

Lilac, what is your reference to the facts that you have come across regarding Joseph Smith? If we have that as a reference then it would be easier to address them.

Ben Raines

I cannot find where I read that. Next time, I will save the place so you can read the source. Good suggestion.

[Lilac]

Joseph Smith did not become a Mason until 1842. By then, the Books of Abraham and Moses had been translated, the Kirtland temple had been dedicated in 1836, and D&C 124 was written in January 1841.

I guess what I read is inaccurate? I'm happy to hear that.

[SteveB]

I have read that Smith joined the Masons and shortly after that, he began building temples and introduced temple rituals.

Is this historically accurate?

Josesph Smith, and most, if not all, of the first generation leaders of the Church were Masons. You can find the minutes of meetings in Nauvoo that verify this.

There is no necessary correlation between that membership and the formation of any ritual or beliefs on Smith's part. There is such a thing as parallel development.

A common error is to consider Freemasonry a religion. It is not. It is religious, and promotes spirituality, but it doesn't include any credo beyond an insistence on a belief in a supreme being, however the member defines that.

Freemasonry promotes a teaching of individual freedom and dignity, so attracts people who think that way.

Bro. Joseph wrote of how he enjoyed meetings, and served as the Chaplain in lodge. It gave him the rare opportunity to not be the boss. Following Smith's murder, and the subsequent acceptance by the Grand Lodge of Illinois of his murderers, there was a break between the Church and Freemasons, which was healed in the 1960s I believe.

There is a Grand Lodge of Utah, which can provide you with more information about this subject, I am sure.

Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Utah

Fraternally,

SteveB

Maryland and DC

[rameumptom]

Joseph Smith joined the Masons in the Nauvoo period. He had already built a temple in Kirtland, and had planned at least 2 temples in Missouri (before they were driven out). So the temples were not directly connected to Masonry.

Joseph Smith told Benjamin F. Johnson that the Masonic endowment was an apostate endowment (not necessarily meant in a bad way, just stating that it was a corrupted version of the original). It is very evident that Joseph Smith used the Masonic endowment to construct the Nauvoo endowment. However, the key concepts of the endowment are found in the Book of Mormon, and so it is more likely that Joseph used the Masonic rite as a building block to construct the restored endowment.

Differences? The Masonic endowment is only for men. There is no eternal marriage component, nor baptism for the dead. The Mormon endowment focuses on both men and women receiving the rite, culminating in the marriage sealing. The Masonic endowment is performed only for oneself, while the Mormon endowment provides saving ordinances for the dead by proxy.

[SteveB]

As I said, Freemasonry isn't a religion, and has religious components. A Masonic Lodge has an altar, and on the altar are scriptures. Always a Bible; often others, as used by the majority of the brethren in the lodge. In my lodge (yes, I am a Freemason and a Mormon) I have known brethren to bring a Book of Mormon to the altar with them as well. I have known Jews to bring Torahs, and Muslims to bring Korans. I have seen the Bagavad Ghita on the altar, and I have seen four or five "Volumes of Sacred Law," on the same altar.

I have never heard an endowment mentioned in Freemasonry.

Freemasonry is not a path to salvation; that is to be worked out by the individual within his religious community.

All this said, no one, especially not me, speaks for Freemasonry or all Freemasons. Your understandings may vary.

I believe that I share with Bro. Joseph a special bond because of our mutual love of Freemasonry. Bro. Joseph was originally quite anti-Masonic, as were many from the area of New York that he came from. The "secret combinations" that are so often condemned were probably based on anti-Masonic sentiment. But you can judge a tree by its fruit, and Bro. Joseph saw that most of the men that formed the core of the leadership drawn to the Church were Masons, so he took a better look at it, and joined up. It took me fifty years to overcome my predjudices about Freemasonry, and today I love it.

SteveB

Washington DC & Maryland

[livy111us]

I'd recommend these articles:

Temple endowment and Freemasonry - FAIRMormon

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices

and these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?pi=0&ps=20&sf=&sa=0&sq=&dm=0&p=380518A7BFFBAF16

[Lilac]

Thank you for your help.

I've enjoyed all the articles that you posted.

Incidentally, my father was a Mason and always said that the whole thing came from the Old Testament.

(I had a bad relationship with my father so I don't know too much about it)

Blessings.