Prophets and profits

[john doe]

Truth is, if you look at the Prophet and Apostles, most of them were already very rich before even being called to such positions. I would hope that the church pays for their traveling and whatnot - it would get really expensive for them if it was otherwise.

Very rich? I doubt it. Well off? Many of them, I'll grant.

The prophet and apostles aren't doing it for money - they don't even have enough time to themselves to make the extra money worth it (I hear they get one month out of the year off, like in July).

The church runs 24/7/365, I doubt they simultaneously take a coordinated month off. Odds are they take time as they need to spend with their families. A couple days here, a few days there, not a ton of time but enough time to recharge and strengthen their families.

[Vort]

The church runs 24/7/365, I doubt they simultaneously take a coordinated month off. Odds are they take time as they need to spend with their families. A couple days here, a few days there, not a ton of time but enough time to recharge and strengthen their families.

Ii doubt they even get as much vacation as the average professional.

Consider: There are about 3000 stakes in the world. Each stake presidency needs to be reorganized every ten years or so, on average. That's about 300 stake presidency reorganizations per year, or 6 per week (not counting General Conference weeks).

Each stake presidency reorganization requires a member of the Quorum of Twelve (I think).

Assuming each stake presidency can be reorganized in only a single week, that suggests that, on average, at any given time HALF of the Quorum of Twelve is off reorganizing stakes around the world.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This suggests a few things to me:

• The Brethren are very, very, very busy.
• Especially considering that they're mostly septuagenarians and octogenarians.
• The brethren almost certainly work a lot more than 2000 hours a year.
• The life of an apostle is not one of luxurious world travel.
• If they have not already done so, the Brethren will soon need to offload the reorganization of stake presidencies to one of the quorums of seventy. In a few years, there simply won't be enough apostles to handle the stake presidency reorgs, never mind everything else they do.

[john doe]

#5 is already happening today. My Stake was reorganized by 2 Seventies earlier this year.

[pam]

My opinion is if we did pay our clergy..we could never pay someone like President Hinckley enough for all the work he did. I read his biography and that man was a workaholic. If not working doing Church business, he was busy at home remodeling his house. Everytime they had a child get married he seemed to remodel their house.

He talked once of going on a vacation when his children were smaller. He took his kids to see the ocean which they had never seen before. They sat in the car looking at it for about 5 minutes and said okay kids..now you've seen it. He was so used to being on the go all the time.

They truly are dedicated men with a love of the gospel.

[clark87]

Very rich? I doubt it. Well off? Many of them, I'll grant.

Good catch, John Doe. I really don't know their financial situations, personally. However, the apostles seem to love their work. They have a good Spirit about them, and I don't think that they would have that Spirit if they were doing it for money. They've got a higher motivation, I feel.

[bytebear]

If they are wealthy they got that way through private endeavors, and not through church funds. I still consider it a lay clergy, even at the highest levels, simply because no one in the church makes church leadership a vocation. It comes after (or during) their chosen vocation.

[Rico]

Why would that be an uneasy relationship? If they paid into social security and Medicare with their taxes over the course of their working life why would it be bad for them to collect the benefits they paid into? Basically, if President Monson, qualified for and collected Social Security how is that any different than my grandpa doing so except that President Monson is a lot busier in his retirement than my grandpa is?

How much is paid in vs how much is paid out. A younger person starting out today will pay in(with interest) more than they will ever get out of system. An older person collecting social security now has paid in less than they are receiving. That lesser amount is a transfer payment. Maybe we don't like to use the word, but it's welfare. It's just disguised welfare.

I refuse to delude myself into believing that social security is anything but a cleverly disguised welfare system that everyone over 65 can partake in.

I am sure just about everyone will disagree, but that's ok. Just go back into the history of the programs and the first benefactors....

[Vort]

An older person collecting social security now has paid in less than they are receiving.

I don't believe this. I suspect that no one gets his money's worth out of SS.

I refuse to delude myself into believing that social security is anything but a cleverly disguised welfare system that everyone over 65 can partake in.

Agreed, except for the "cleverly disguised" part.

[john doe]

You're right, it is a welfare system. They disguise it as an entitlement.

The problem with that is that it is a forced pay-in system. I couldn't opt-out on paying for social security if I wanted to. The government forces me to pay into it. Then they guarantee that in exchange for this forced pay-in, they will give me back a small pittance when I get old. I wonder how much better off I would be if I had control over the investment strategy of the money I have paid into the system.

But back to the GA's. Yes, they are entitled to the money, they government made a contract with them, and they did their part of the bargain, whether they liked it or not. But I would imagine that with the Church's disdain for government welfare, if the Church is in a position to make sure the GA does not need to recieve the government chack and support them without hurting church coffers, they would do so. I imagine it's very likely that most return the money or don't cash the checks and the Church makes sure their needs are taken care of.