Fast And Testimony

[Snow]

Some, plenty of, testimonies in Fast and Testimony meeting are just not right. Hardly anybody really bears their testimony anymore and when someone does, cogently, to the point, it is noteworthy by its unusualness.

Yesterday I went in early for Ward Council and heard the other Ward already in session. Some lady was up there bawling up a storm - I don't know about what. Then she started talking about genealogy and still cryed up down, left and right... "geneolgy, sob, whimper... what a cute little word, waw, sob, cry..." I don't need to bore you with all the emotional non-testimony garbage that people carry on about but they did the exact same thing in my on Ward yesterday. I don't mean to be biased but it is ususally the women who are so inappropriate, like somehow, give them a mic and some Kleenex and all the sudden the whole congregation is their own personal therapy session.

I usually don't say anything cuz, you know, I don't want to be too obnoxious but I think it is out of line. I mentioned it to my wife and she said, "I KNOW. I wonder if there will stop having Fast and Testimony Meetings. I could never take my mom (a friendly non-member) to such a meeting - it would be too embarrassing and she (as would any non-Mormon) think we are all a bunch of fruitcakes.

[StrawberryFields]

I think I remember a member of the bishopric reading a letter about this. We were told not to do what you described and no travel logs either.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 10 2005, 09:45 PM

I think I remember a member of the bishopric reading a letter about this. We were told not to do what you described and no travel logs either.

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Our bishop did something cool and different yesterday... He had us sing another song before he would allow anyone to bear their testimony. He explained that he didn't feel the Spirit yet.

He then had us sing... More Holiness Give Me... then he got up and told us that we needed to be lifted and strengthened and to share our testimonies with this in mind. We had some usual every month people... but we had some very strong testimonies born also. It was nice.

[StrawberryFields]

Yesterday we went to another ward. My nephew was being blessed. One lady took up 25 mins...she lost me after 5 mins.

[Jason]

Just a thought here for you LDS types:

If you wanted genuine testimonies...stop making your kids get up and recite from memory the same ol'e thing.

"I know this church is true, I know (fill in the blank) is a prophet, I love my mom and dad, inthenameofjesuschristamen."

Tell your kids to only go up and testify when they really want too, and when they really know what they heck they're doing.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Oct 11 2005, 10:21 AM

Just a thought here for you LDS types:

If you wanted genuine testimonies...stop making your kids get up and recite from memory the same ol'e thing. 

"I know this church is true, I know (fill in the blank) is a prophet, I love my mom and dad, inthenameofjesuschristamen."

Tell your kids to only go up and testify when they really want too, and when they really know what they heck they're doing.

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Done...already. I never liked seeing little kids get up there ... never thought it was right.

[DisRuptive1]

There's a really old lady in my home ward who always has a full heart. She'll probably keel over and die when it explodes.

[Traveler]

On thing that is interesting to me is that it is always someone elses testimonies that are out of order. It is also interesting that when ever someone reports on their missionary serving they seem to be having a problem with a "lazy" companion. It would seem that everybody has problems or is offended by someone else.

Have you ever noticed that very seldom does one admit to having a problem?

For myself I have learned that if I have not fasted with purpose that the spirit is just not as strong at testimony meeting. When someone is able (old enough or spiritual enough) to fast and contribute to fast offerings then they are able to feel and experience the spirit at a fast meeting. On my mission I would encourage visitors (contacts) to fast, pray and make a contribution to fast offerings. I discovered that every contact that did so became strong members - those that fudged or found excuses seem to not develop spiritually. I love fast meeting and I love inviting those that have not fasted with purpose to come fasting. I taught my children to fast and contribute - the testimony came naturally.

One last thing - I once taught a SS class (14 year olds) on fasting. I was surprised that not one of the youth in the class had been taught to fast by given a opportunity to fast for a full 24 hours and present a fast offering. I asked all the youth to fast with me - I called their homes and asked to parents to fast with their children. We all got together to begin and end our fast with a prayer. I never said a thing about testimonies - funny thing, next fast Sunday several of the class members fasted again and presented testimonies that is hard to explain on this forum.

I hope that fast meeting remain open to those that fast.

The Traveler

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 11 2005, 12:25 PM

On thing that is interesting to me is that it is always someone elses testimonies that are out of order.  It is also interesting that when ever someone reports on their missionary serving they seem to be having a problem with a "lazy" companion.  It would seem that everybody has problems or is offended by someone else.

Have you ever noticed that very seldom does one admit to having a problem? 

For myself I have learned that if I have not fasted with purpose that the spirit is just not as strong at testimony meeting.  When someone is able (old enough or spiritual enough) to fast and contribute to fast offerings then they are able to feel and experience the spirit at a fast meeting.  On my mission I would encourage visitors (contacts) to fast, pray and make a contribution to fast offerings.  I discovered that every contact that did so became strong members - those that fudged or found excuses seem to not develop spiritually.  I love fast meeting and I love inviting those that have not fasted with purpose to come fasting.  I taught my children to fast and contribute - the testimony came naturally.

One last thing - I once taught a SS class (14 year olds) on fasting.  I was surprised that not one of the youth in the class had been taught to fast by given a opportunity to fast for a full 24 hours and present a fast offering.  I asked all the youth to fast with me - I called their homes and asked to parents to fast with their children.  We all got together to begin and end our fast with a prayer.  I never said a thing about testimonies - funny thing, next fast Sunday several of the class members fasted again and presented testimonies that is hard to explain on this forum.

I hope that fast meeting remain open to those that fast.

The Traveler

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It would be wonderful if there were more people like you. I hope also that fast and testimony meeting isn't take away... it does as you say... give strength to the sincere.

[Heather]

My family always gets together for Swiss Days over Labor day weekend. We've been going to it ever since it started, and before I could even remember. We always go to the ward there in Midway, and more often than not, there is a member of the 12 there. (President Monson, Elder Nelson, and Elder Maxwell when he was living.)

The Bishop always says that testimonies will end 10 or so minutes early so that the Apostle in attendance can address us. It never fails that people go on and on with travelogs and pridamonies talking about how great they are and how great their family is. The major thing they always do is thank everyone for doing such a great job with Swiss Days (at least 5 members feel they need to get up and do that.) One time there was a man in his 50s-60s who got up one and sang not one but two hymns during the middle of his "testimony," which ran on for over 15 minutes at least. I don't feel like I'm at a testimony meeting, but rather that I'm at a talent show and the winner is hoping to perform at the next General Conference.

The entire time I'm not feeling the spirit, because I'm just staring at the clock, wishing the person would sit down, and just let the Apostle speak. Once he does, of course it's great, and the spirit is overwhelming. I just wish that the Bishop would forgo fast and testimony meeting all together and let the Apostle take up the whole meeting.

On another matter -- My ward lets the kids get up for the first 5 minutes only. I think that has worked out pretty well.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 11 2005, 10:25 AM

On thing that is interesting to me is that it is always someone elses testimonies that are out of order.  It is also interesting that when ever someone reports on their missionary serving they seem to be having a problem with a "lazy" companion.  It would seem that everybody has problems or is offended by someone else.

Have you ever noticed that very seldom does one admit to having a problem? 

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Well duh Traveler. If people thought their testimony was out of line, then they usually not bear it.

.... good point about fasting though. We should all pay attention to what you said.

[Lindy]

Some real good points made here....

I think people in Fast and Testimony meetings need to rethink what a testimony really is...and stick to the spiritual side of things. For everyones sake

[Paul Osborne]

I have to agree with Snow. I’ve seen too many Fast and Testimony Meetings that tend to make me think I’m a member of the Church of God, Nuts, Flowers, and Candy. I can’t stand it when men get up and start bawling - and the women drip all over the place and reveal their private faces in front of everyone. Get a grip! I've seen some men bawl to the point that it makes me want to tell him to pull himself up by his bootstraps and start acting more dignified.

Travel logs and silly insipid stories are a waste of my time. I want to hear about relationships with Jesus Christ! Tell me about Joseph Smith and how the restoration of the gospel has made a difference in one's life. Give me substance, please.

If I don't feel moved by a testimony, I don't say Amen. It's that simple.

Paul O

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 12 2005, 02:16 PM

I have to agree with Snow. I’ve seen too many Fast and Testimony Meetings that tend to make me think I’m a member of the Church of God, Nuts, Flowers, and Candy. I can’t stand it when men get up and start bawling - and the women drip all over the place and reveal their private faces in front of everyone. Get a grip! I've seen some men bawl to the point that it makes me want to tell him to pull himself up by his bootstraps and start acting more dignified.

Travel logs and silly insipid stories are a waste of my time. I want to hear about relationships with Jesus Christ! Tell me about Joseph Smith and how the restoration of the gospel has made a difference in one's life. Give me substance, please.

If I don't feel moved by a testimony, I don't say Amen. It's that simple.

Paul O

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I agree... it must edify or just don't bother... we have one couple that gets up only to brag they went to Jersalam or that they went to the Hill Camorah... or that their kid is goint to BYU... you can guarantee that it will be a brag session if they get out of their seats to stand at the pulpet...

Of course they always put it into a round about testimony of the truth of the church... but no body is fooled...

[Paul Osborne]

Several years ago in a previous ward the youth were taking over the whole meeting. It was turning into an entertainment show where you could practically blow whistles and bubbles. The bishop finally nipped it in the bud and told the youth to knock it off. From that time on there weren’t very many youth testimonies. The bishop also said that little kids shouldn’t bear their testimonies with mommy or daddy whispering what to say in their ears. Either they stand on their own or don’t come up.

Needless to say, mommy and daddy still brought them up and whispered in their ears the same old thing. I noticed that the bishop never said Amen to any of those testimonies. That taught me a great lesson: Don’t let the tail wag the dog.

The church is still true. :)

Paul O

[Traveler]

Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings. I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet? If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?

The Traveler

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 13 2005, 11:17 AM

Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings.  I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet?  If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?

But Traveler, what's the chance that whining on the internet might be that very thing that would make the difference. Maybe someone might come across the thread and recognize that they are that "overly-emotional-travellog-pat-themselves-on-the-back" testimony giver and make that effort to change - just because of this whiny thread.

M.

[Paul Osborne]

Good thinking, Maureen.

Paul O

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Maureen+Oct 13 2005, 02:20 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 13 2005, 11:17 AM

Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings.  I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet?  If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?

But Traveler, what's the chance that whining on the internet might be that very thing that would make the difference. Maybe someone might come across the thread and recognize that they are that "overly-emotional-travellog-pat-themselves-on-the-back" testimony giver and make that effort to change - just because of this whiny thread.

M.

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When Jesus met with his Apostles for Passover the evening before he was taken by certain jews to be crucified he indicated that one among them was not spiritually connected and would fail (betray) him. The response among trusted Apostles was to ask "L-rd is it I?"

I hinted in a previous post that this concept of "L-rd is it I?" seems to be to be missing by those on the forum (as well as most of us stalwart LDS. Since we seem to be dealing exclusively with spiritual giants on this forum - I thought to suggest something else that would be more applicable to the forum

The Traveler

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Traveler+Oct 13 2005, 05:03 PM-->

Originally posted by Maureen@Oct 13 2005, 02:20 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 13 2005, 11:17 AM

Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings.  I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet?  If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?

But Traveler, what's the chance that whining on the internet might be that very thing that would make the difference. Maybe someone might come across the thread and recognize that they are that "overly-emotional-travellog-pat-themselves-on-the-back" testimony giver and make that effort to change - just because of this whiny thread.

M.

←

When Jesus met with his Apostles for Passover the evening before he was taken by certain jews to be crucified he indicated that one among them was not spiritually connected and would fail (betray) him. The response among trusted Apostles was to ask "L-rd is it I?"

I hinted in a previous post that this concept of "L-rd is it I?" seems to be to be missing by those on the forum (as well as most of us stalwart LDS. Since we seem to be dealing exclusively with spiritual giants on this forum - I thought to suggest something else that would be more applicable to the forum

The Traveler

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Interesting... it seems that the self-defence machanism is in full force... in everyone here... including the guilty...

[Paul Osborne]

You guys haven't even begun to hear me complain. If I was to unload my complaints about all the cra8 that goes on at church it would make your heads spin.

But, I'm a good boy, and won't do that.

Paul O

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 13 2005, 06:55 PM

You guys haven't even begun to hear me complain. If I was to unload my complaints about all the cra8 that goes on at church it would make your heads spin.

But, I'm a good boy, and won't do that.

Paul O

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You are a brighter than most kind of guy, Paul. Is there any thing you have observed in scripture (in particular the Book of Mormon) that you think pertains to what you observe at church?

The Traveler

[Snow]

Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 13 2005, 03:03 PM

I hinted in a previous post that this concept of "L-rd is it I?" seems to be to be missing by those on the forum (as well as most of us stalwart LDS.  Since we seem to be dealing exclusively with spiritual giants  on this forum - I thought to suggest something else that would be more applicable to the forum

The Traveler

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Yes, yes we know Traveler-holier-than-thou.

Please tell me how me questioning whether or not I am the one who causes Mormons to abuse the Fast and Testimony Meeting by mucking it up with travelogues, bragging, social gossip and silly histrionics will some how make it better?

I am not the one doing those things. When I bear my testimony, I bear my testimony - period. When I teach classes where it is appropriate to do so, I talk about bearing one's testimony - properly. Questioning whether or not I am the one to blame, as you lecture us, does nothing to halt the ones that are out of line.

[john doe]

Yes, yes we know Traveler-holier-than-thou.

Yes, but he's quite humble about telling us how great he is. "I remember when we had a walking-on-water contest, I won, and we all found that only the most righteous could do it on the first try." Sorry, Tr-v, but Snow has a point, this whole "don't you wish you were as good as me" act does get tiresome sometimes. Now,

[Snow]

We were talking in the exective committee meeting this morning about what we could do to further the missionary work in the ward. The subject of bringing investigators came up and so I said that I wouldn't consider bringing (and we do bring a fair amount of non-members to church) non-members to Fast and Testimony what with all the histrionics and pomp.

I didn't have to get anything else out before there was a mutual murmur, rolling of the eyes and nodding in agreement. I suggested that perhaps bearing testimonies appropriately would be a good subject for a future Sacrament Meeting. The Bishops agreed and thought we ought to do it a couple weeks after a Fast and Testimony meeting so that people wouldn't get the idea that we had them in mind when speaking.

Of course, I was nominated as the likely candidate to give such a talk. In as much as I just spoke a couple months ago, maybe I'll get lucky and they'll pick someone else.

The Bishop did say something interesting... that in some meetings where investigators were present, he cringed at some of the testimonies but in talking with the investigators they thought the meeting inspiring and some meetings that he thought were dandy did not so impress the investigators....