My Trip to Paris, now Has more meaning.

[xoomer]

My life has been rather Chaotic, to say the least lately. As I posted earlier, I was in Paris for 16 days where I fell in Love, Yes I said it Love, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about her. I proposed to her. We talk daily. I stay up late to talk to her. due to the time difference. I'm Learning her Native Language so I can communicate easier. I sent her a Tagalog BOM, and gave her the address of Several wards within a few kilometers of her apartment. Although I had to Explain who Nephi Was... (that was an interesting conversation)

the other day she left an URGENT message on my Voice mail... so I called her, She's Pregnant, Yes its mine, Yes I broke the law of Chastity. Yes I'm trying to get a hold of my bishop, no answer And my tithing checks have not been cashed so I'm assuming he is out of town. I don't know Why exactly I'm writing this Message here on this message board.

I Feel guilty because I have been walking away from the church as of late. I've told the missionaries that I don't want any more classes, until I figure all of this out. I'm so happy about the situation, I finally have what I have wanted for a long time, A family. Well soon anyway.

Maybe I'm crazy, She started talking baby names yesterday and told me we were going to have a Zach Jr if its a boy, and I get to come up with names for a girl... So far, I have several,

Kaori = Strong in Japanese

Annora = With Honor

Kiada = Little Dragon (my kid will definitely be a little dragon)

Saya

Mayu

Kristen (a girl I have known since Elementary school Who actually helped bring me to the Church)

Elisa

Joanne (Joan of Arc was an obsession of mine.)

I don't know I guess this is just a random post.

[Charlyc]

I'd say that you don't have a family until you marry her.

Kaori sounds nice to me.

[hordak]

Don't take this the wrong way but...

3 letters D N A.

Since you proposed to someone you met on vacation and spent a whopping 16 days with, i'm going to go out on a limb and assume your young. "Young ung" have a tendency to be naive, don't take it personal we all we're there at one time or another( even Pam:) )

Also the fact she would have (assuming unprotected) sex with a man she has know for 16 days max who was only visiting doesn't speak highly of her forethought.

I could be wrong and this could have been the mistake of to deeply in love individuals but it sound to me like infatuation gone wrong.

Get a DNA test when the Baby is born before you make anymore rash decisions. If yours, take care of it, if not let this be a lesson.

[pam]

don't take it personal we all we're there at one time or another( even Pam:) )

Heyyyyyyyyyy watch it bucko.

[pam]

But I have to admit...I had the exact same thoughts as hordak when I read your OP.

[xoomer]

I would also agree, But I was her first. this I know...

[Dr T]

Her first what xoomer? I'd rec. taking it a little slower.

[pam]

I don't want to sound rude. But there are many that would claim pregnancy to gain marriage to gain Visas to the US. Sorry circumstances but true.

[john doe]

I would also agree, But I was her first. this I know...

How do you know? Because she told you?

[xoomer]

She was a Virgin. and We have paperwork to prove early pregnancy.

I don't know i will figure it out... I guess.

[Charlyc]

I don't want to sound rude. But there are many that would claim pregnancy to gain marriage to gain Visas to the US. Sorry circumstances but true.

Only complete nutcases would want to go to US today (after what Reagan and the Bushes did); smart people will catch an Australian!! , ..

or was that criminals only...Hmmm not sure now.

[Charlyc]

She was a Virgin. and We have paperwork to prove early pregnancy.

I don't know i will figure it out... I guess.

Mate, or dude, do the right thing here. Marry the girl you deflowered...ah.....knocked up as you'd say?

If it doesn't work out, well sh.. happens. But you do your best to remember that (obviously) sweet romance and time together. If I was your bishop, and I did suggest this when I was, I'd strongly advice you to do you best and give it your all to make that marriage work...and Pray about this, as you should, but l'd bet you an arm&aleg that God agrees with this because a baby is coming. Don't even mention abortion ok!!!!!!!

Good luck

[ryanh]

Mate, or dude, do the right thing here. Marry the girl you deflowered...ah.....knocked up as you'd say?

If it doesn't work out, well sh.. happens. But you do your best to remember that (obviously) sweet romance and time together. If I was your bishop, and I did suggest this when I was, I'd strongly advice you to do you best and give it your all to make that marriage work...and Pray about this, as you should, but l'd bet you an arm&aleg that God agrees with this because a baby is coming. Don't even mention abortion ok!!!!!!!

Good luck

Hitting the liquor just a little too hard last night were we?

[ryanh]

Only complete nutcases would want to go to US today (after what Reagan and the Bushes did); smart people will catch an Australian!! , ..

or was that criminals only...Hmmm not sure now.

Mate, or dude, do the right thing here. Marry the girl you deflowered...ah.....knocked up as you'd say?

If it doesn't work out, well sh.. happens. But you do your best to remember that (obviously) sweet romance and time together. If I was your bishop, and I did suggest this when I was, I'd strongly advice you to do you best and give it your all to make that marriage work...and Pray about this, as you should, but l'd bet you an arm&aleg that God agrees with this because a baby is coming. Don't even mention abortion ok!!!!!!!

Good luck

Were you inebriated while posting last night?

[ryanh]

I am disturbed that the act of intercourse outside of marriage would be described as “sweet romance and time together” by someone that espouses to believe in the teachings of the restored gospel. Even moreso from someone that has referenced The Miracle of Forgiveness, which book would condemn such abuse of procreative powers in no uncertain terms. It is never a "sweet" or good thing when we crucify Christ anew.

Between this post, the one insinuating that ‘every young man masturbates anyway’, and other references to adultry, I’m concerned that your posts might be lead the uninformed reader to an inaccurate understanding of the sacred nature of procreative powers, and the responsibility and seriousness connected with their misuse.

[pam]

Only complete nutcases would want to go to US today (after what Reagan and the Bushes did); smart people will catch an Australian!! , ..

or was that criminals only...Hmmm not sure now.

Then I am proud to say that I am a nutcase. But then again..this thread isn't about US verses other countries is it? Or is it?

I still agree with others that a paternity test is in order before making any decisions. Especially one as big as this one. To advise someone to do otherwise without this and then say..Hey if it doesn't work out..well stuff happens..Doesn't sound like good advice to me.

Edited November 11, 2009 by pam

[hordak]

Then I am proud to say that I am a nutcase. But then again..this thread isn't about US verses other countries is it? Or is it?

I still agree with others that a paternity test is in order before making any decisions. Especially one as big as this one. To advise someone to do otherwise without this and then say..Hey if it doesn't work out..well stuff happens..Doesn't sound like good advice to me.

Bingo. I don't know about Austraila but when a marriage doesn't work out in the States it comes with lots of pain, suffering, lose of property, financial obligations, attorney fees etc.

OP

Divorce is far from "well sh.. happens"

[pam]

Amen hordak..amen.

[FunkyTown]

She has paperwork that 'proves' early pregnancy? Whuuuuuuuh?

Regardless, my real concern here lies in how you're reacting to this. You don't sound penitent so much as joyful. I don't think you realize the real depth of what is going to happen.

For at least the next 19 years+, you will have sleepless nights. Your every move will be judged by someone who sees and emulates everything you do, so every time you mess up, you have to realize you are hurting the person you love the most. You have a girl who can barely speak English and you can barely speak her language.

You are entering in to a marriage with someone you can barely communicate with. You say you love her and have spent only a week with her. You have to realize just how badly you've messed up. Thankfully, there are a few questions you probably know.

1) How many kids does she want? How many do you want?

2) What religion do you both want to raise your kids in?

3) Have you started your college fund for your kids, yet? How much per month are you going to contribute?

4) Look at Baby Costs: How Much Does it Cost to Have a Baby | In Pregnancy and tell us how your budget is going. Do you have the $11, 000.00 available? Have you budgeted for $11, 000?

5) Will she stay home or work? Have you talked about this? Can you afford the $3000+ for childcare or can you afford a home on your current salary?

6) What are your plans for a job that allows you to pay for your children?

7) Will you be home-schooling your kids? Where are you going to live? Have you considered schools in that area?

8) What bad habits does she have? You can't marry someone expecting they'll change. If your answer is 'None', then you don't know them well enough.

9) What bad habits do you have that you can change? Being willing to change yourself will make your marriage last longer.

Those are just some basic questions to think about. I wish you luck. Think very carefully because at least three lives hang in the balance at this point: Your happiness, her happiness and the happiness of your child.

[Charlyc]

I am disturbed that the act of intercourse outside of marriage would be described as “sweet romance and time together” by someone that espouses to believe in the teachings of the restored gospel. Even moreso from someone that has referenced The Miracle of Forgiveness, which book would condemn such abuse of procreative powers in no uncertain terms. It is never a "sweet" or good thing when we crucify Christ anew.

Between this post, the one insinuating that ‘every young man masturbates anyway’, and other references to adultry, I’m concerned that your posts might be lead the uninformed reader to an inaccurate understanding of the sacred nature of procreative powers, and the responsibility and seriousness connected with their misuse.

Hmmm. 1- Of course fornication is sinful and wrong. But his post seem to suggest it was a romance that went to far. The baby is now coming, and you will find that both the MoF and church policy is to encourage marriage in these cases whenever possible.

2- And offcourse divorce is bad and causes much heartache. I'm not suggesting it doesn't. But most couples in this situation will maybe avoid marriage because they believe that they don't love each other enough and will only divorce later. But its too late to think that way, again, because a child is on its way and that child's interest should be the first concern here and for that child the couple should marry and do all they can to make it work.

3- From 5 years as bishop and now in stake, my experience is that most young men do masturbate regularly. young women will sometimes admit to it or porn use but they aren't as open with male leaders as they would be , and are, with female leaders. They'll have times when they don't but its an ongoing problem. Although it does stop someone going on a mission for example, we can't and don't just condemn someone or put young people through disciplinary councils because of this. It is really a minor sin but sin nonetheless. I'm not saying at all that abusing procreative powers isn't sinful but you can't compare it or treat masturbation to adultery or child abuse case. Yesterday I answered a prospective missionary that breaking Lawof Chastity will most likely stop her serving unless there is proof of both real repentance and time without sin, and I told her that its better to probably think of marriage instead of a mission but you obviously haven't seen that post.

4- On those comments on adultery I'm sure I wrote that people will be excommunicated unless its a one off. Both handbook and D&C 42 state this. But usually, if people try and want to, they can be re-baptized after a year. We may do on average one case of adultery every 3 months or so, but only one about 1 in ten or so ever return. So everyone wants to see more returning after excommunication. Because there are so many we consider it a 'standard case' in the repentance process. Standard but a 'repentance process' nonetheless so I don't see how you could think that I belittle the seriousness of this sin. I did tell the lady concerned that if it involved children it will take much longer for the repentance process too, I believe.

5- The comment on US/Australia is tongue in cheek that's why the little smiley is there. People ought to lighten up a bit.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Charlyc

[Generally_Me]

To the OP, I sincerely believe you should get a DNA test. You barely know the woman, and just because you may have been her first doesn't mean she didn't "make sure" she was pregnant to get a visa, or money, or something. Tread cautiously!!!! There are a lot of women out there looking out for themselves, and willing to lie, cheat, and steal to do it.

[xoomer]

Not Mine,

Still Plan on being there

[pam]

Imagine that. But at least now you know.

[xoomer]

I know, I know... its a long story. I trust her and her family.. a family that has been like family me for a long time. I'm going to Stand up, And be there.

[Guest]

I'm Filipino. I may have some perspective on this.

1.) This is the time when you need God the most. Running away from Him is telling me you are ashamed to face Him. So, I guess you know you messed up. Repent immediately and stay very, very close to Him! Marriage is serious enough, having a baby on top of that is not something you can risk ROYALLY MESSING UP on! Pray, pray, and pray some more.

2.) If she is in Paris, she may not be that much in NEED of a US visa. It is not too difficult to get a tourist entry visa to the US from a Filipino who is already touring Europe.

3.) She's a virgin but she was so in-love with you she "gave it up" within 16 days? Questionable. Filipina virgins are not uncommon. It's a predominantly devout Catholic country. Filipinas stay virgins because they deem saving themselves for marriage of very high priority. Giving it up in 16 days, no matter how romantic it may have been, is questionable to me. Either she wasn't really innocent, or she has a very big motive that overcame her moral grounds. Okay, so maybe it's about the visa. Just doesn't add up to me. Something smells very fishy. Loving you would have made this harder to give up than easier because she would want to have everything go right in her relationship. Fear of God and all that.

4.) Most Filipinos can speak good English.

5.) Keep your heart open and your brain above your heart. I would want to know what kind of family she came from. It will tell you a lot about her background.

6.) Marry the girl if she is not a psycho. If she's a "normal" Filipino, she will take good care of you and will not have a "divorce when the going gets rough" mentality. Divorce is illegal in the Philippines. Filipinos are family-oriented, she will be a good mother to the child.

7.) Note that everything I'm saying here is stereotype. I can be 100% wrong. So, yeah, keep your wits about you, man! Like I said above, a baby is not something you want to royally mess up on. Okay?